[jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Another point towards using css over tables for layout.. It's a lot easier to reach semantically meaningful markup. Tables are for tabular data, abused by rookies of the web dev. industry for grid layouts, and before I get flamed for "but the client wants it to look exactly like x,y,z", I've be

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

> On your comment on degration, I am not sure my window plugin needs to > degrade, after all, you have to open it from Javascript and it is a > javascript build and controlled box... That's just my opinion, since i > don't see how i could degrade this... It is either javascript on or off > with thi

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Dan Atkinson wrote: > Going by the title, I fear that this is more wishful thinking and showmanship > than anything else. > Hi Dan, Correct. I wasn't trying to be arrogant, on the contrary, i just wanted to "poke" around to see how people reacted on my plugin. I've tried this before with the

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

> Eh, I think Gilles was just having fun and not trying to be arrogant. Thats the way I interpreted it (just having fun). Rey... ___ jQuery mailing list discuss@jquery.com http://jquery.com/discuss/

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Dan Atkinson wrote: > If you do release another version, I would maybe suggest a little less > arrogance on your part, ... Eh, I think Gilles was just having fun and not trying to be arrogant. For cryin' out-loud, that's what the damned emoticons were created for, in the first place. I think tho

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Going by the title, I fear that this is more wishful thinking and showmanship than anything else. This may sound quite arrogant, but then, so is your summary of thickbox. I'm afraid that the complete lack of graceful degradation means that this is one plugin I simply cannot use. I do like the s

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

On 11/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * Please define "slow" i know it is slow, but this is only the draggable > part in IE6, i don't know what is wrong there, since i use the bgiframe > hack which everybody uses. This would be due to the expressions used by the bgiframe plug

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

The example on wpdfd.com is also dead slow on my IE6 when resizing horizontally. It performs well when resizing vertically. Hmm. --Jacob > Theo Welch schrieb: >> Here's another (probably older) approach to vertical centering with CSS >> I've >> been using for a while. >> >> http://www.wpdfd.com/e

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Theo Welch schrieb: > Here's another (probably older) approach to vertical centering with CSS I've > been using for a while. > > http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/thebox/deadcentre3.html > > This one doesn't need any proprietary IE code to get the centering to work > in IE, but it does require a bit

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

THEO- -Original Message- From: Klaus Hartl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:44 AM To: jQuery Discussion. Subject: Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox! Christopher Jordan schrieb: > Thanks for the response, Klaus. :o) > > Klaus Hartl wrote: >> Hi Chri

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Giuliano Marcangelo schrieb: > so briefly to sum up.. > > mark up is more lightweight, > page displays quicker, > mark up is vastly more flexible/versatile/reusable. Thanks Giuliano for the assistance :-) I had mentioned "bloated HTML" and inflexibility ("a more infl

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

On Nov 27, 2006, at 8:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s. who's Quicken? Gilles, Quicken is the #1 personal finance software in the world in terms of both sales and all-out excellence. For more: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1996812,00.asp Karl _ Karl Swedberg www.

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Christopher Jordan schrieb: > Thanks for the response, Klaus. :o) > > Klaus Hartl wrote: >> Hi Chris, >> >> that's right. But: the only reason I can think of to use tables, is, >> that you can easily have content vertically aligned in the middle. That >> is what CSS honestly lacks. >> >> This ca

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Thanks for the response, Klaus. :o) Klaus Hartl wrote: Hi Chris, that's right. But: the only reason I can think of to use tables, is, that you can easily have content vertically aligned in the middle. That is what CSS honestly lacks. This can also be achievend with a little dynamic property

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Finally some reactions. I did not mean to say "My plugin is better" or something like that, just wanted to get your attention to my plugin, because, like said, i can't perfect it without you guys. Some points mentioned by you guys: * I'll try go get a CSS layout online as soon as possible. * Some

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Christopher Jordan schrieb: > I see. So is it like the lesser of two evils (because IE doesn't comply > with all the standard CSS gizmos, like display: table-cell)? Either you > use tables, or you have to use conditional comments, and some other > CSS-for-IE hacks to make it work? Does that soun

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Thanks Giuliano. Thats the additional type of info that I was looking for! Rey.// Giuliano Marcangelo wrote: > On 26/11/06, *Rey Bango* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > wrote:What I'm trying to say is that if there are other compelling > reasons to > not use tables, then I want

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

On 26/11/06, Rey Bango <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:What I'm trying to say is that if there are other compelling reasons to not use tables, then I want to know them. Web accessibility is a very important issue but there has to be more to your thinking than just web accessibility or "it's really, real

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Hi Klaus, > Yes, this is just my personal opinion as being a web developer and it > wasn't meant to be offensive. > Unfortunately I can't imagine anything more important than > accessibility. If I can't convince you (or anybody else) with that I'll > certainly give up and won't bother you again

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

>> Because they were used like that, shouldn't serve as justification to do >> so today. >> >> Sure, I have used them too (last time 2002 by the way), but I think it's >> really, really time to move on. Browsers even start to support CSS 3 >> columns... > > Apart from the accessibility issue wh

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Hi Klaus, > since people have started to use screen readers. The contents of a table > are read in the order they appear in the source, not as they appear on > the screen. Have you cared about linearization when using a layout table? > > See http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#tables-layout

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Gosh talk about slow to load... That yahoo thing took a while to load, I'll say. --Jacob > If it was as fast and as cool looking as YUI's BasicDialog ( > http://www.jackslocum.com/blog/2006/11/04/033-beta-2-basicdialog-yahooextview-and-more/), > I'm sure a lot of people would use it... you wouldn

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

If it was as fast and as cool looking as YUI's BasicDialog ( http://www.jackslocum.com/blog/2006/11/04/033-beta-2-basicdialog-yahooextview-and-more/), I'm sure a lot of people would use it... you wouldn't need to convince them. But I think it needs work... good start though. Rich On 11/25/06, W

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Rey Bango schrieb: > Hi Klaus, > > Since when did the use of tables become taboo or cause issues with > accessibility? Hi Rey, since people have started to use screen readers. The contents of a table are read in the order they appear in the source, not as they appear on the screen. Have you c

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Hi Su, Everything you mentioned in *this* email is exactly what you should've stated from the get-go. This is the type of feedback that will help Gilles better a plugin thats truly needed by this community. Again, if you read my initial reply to you, you'll see that what I'm asking is that peo

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Hi Klaus, Since when did the use of tables become taboo or cause issues with accessibility? I understand your rationale for using tables to display tabular data but prior to CSS, they also served as the main method for positioning all types of data and forms. And while I am making a shift to u

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

I've already stated my appreciation for what the plugin will do(and does so far) in the original announcement thread. I also offered money for it once usable. I have a client project which would have been made more pleasant by this. As it stands, though, I'm having to look at the Prototype alterna

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Gavin M. Roy schreef: > Unfortunately both are unusable to a degree. While yours uses table > for layout, which I avoid like the plague and thickbox has hardcoded > javascript values for getting at data, both of you suffer from > requiring control of the body tag. I often in design separate

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Gilles, your window plugin is a christmas gift in advance. I'm not afraid of tables at all, even if I use them as little as I can, but sometimes they're very useful and help to avoid a lot of problems. The only thing I wish your plugin had is a "show contents while dragging / resizing" option

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

In IE7, I get some JS errors. First and Third sample: 1573: Invalid Argument The second one works. I like the interaction, maximize, close, etc. Great work! A CSS version would rock, but I'm not complaining. I will be looking for a place to use this. Glen PS. Quicken just relaucnhed their s

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Hay Gilles, Thanks for your all your hard work. I too really appreciate your efforts. Kind regards Rob ___ jQuery mailing list discuss@jquery.com http://jquery.com/discuss/

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Rey Bango schrieb: > some hard core CSS fans might not use it because of tables To me, that has nothing to do with "fanism", it's more about using things the way they are meant to and also, if it weren't a javascript window, that is not much accessible anyway, about accessibility. -- Klaus __

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

I agree. Thanks for saying that Rey. Cheers, Chris Rey Bango wrote: Su, if you're going to make a comment like that, at least have the courtesy to: 1) Cite the reasons that you feel his work isn't ready 2) Offer up solutions or examples that could help him out in improving his work Gilles

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Su, if you're going to make a comment like that, at least have the courtesy to: 1) Cite the reasons that you feel his work isn't ready 2) Offer up solutions or examples that could help him out in improving his work Gilles is trying to provide functionality which really isn't available to the j

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Gilles, Congrats on getting this out my man. I know you've been working hard on trying to make the first cut simply awesome. Hopefully, you'll take some of the feedback given as a basis to further improve a great piece of work. I'm looking forward to using it myself and while some hard core CSS

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

On 11/25/06, Webunity | Gilles van den Hoven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And use my window plugin :) I realize there's a smiley on the end, but this really /is/ a joke, right? Your plugin frankly isn't anywhere near ready for public use, as much as I wish it were. _

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Unfortunately both are unusable to a degree. While yours uses table for layout, which I avoid like the plague and thickbox has hardcoded javascript values for getting at data, both of you suffer from requiring control of the body tag. I often in design separate html and body from each oth

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

I see. So is it like the lesser of two evils (because IE doesn't comply with all the standard CSS gizmos, like display: table-cell)? Either you use tables, or you have to use conditional comments, and some other CSS-for-IE hacks to make it work? Does that sound about right? And, is this really

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Christopher Jordan schrieb: > What about what Gilles says on his demo page: > > "Layout of the dialogs To be honest one of the first things i started on > was the dialog itself. I decided to go for CSS a table layout. What? > Tables!? They are so... 1995! Yeah i know, but in this particular > s

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

What about what Gilles says on his demo page: "Layout of the dialogs To be honest one of the first things i started on was the dialog itself. I decided to go for CSS a table layout. What? Tables!? They are so... 1995! Yeah i know, but in this particular scenario tables where the only way to go

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Christopher Jordan schrieb: > What's wrong with tables? Tables allow this box to be themeable, right? No, that's CSS (at least in 2006). Tables are for tabular data. I don't see any need for tables to let something be themeable. Apart from that, you can make an element render like a table with

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Okay. Well, Gilles seemed to think there was a problem with it. I still don't see the problem. Oh well. :o) Chris Matt Stith wrote: Its very possible to make the box themeable with CSS. On 11/25/06, *Christopher Jordan* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: What's wrong

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Its very possible to make the box themeable with CSS. On 11/25/06, Christopher Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What's wrong with tables? Tables allow this box to be themeable, right? I agree that tables prolly shouldn't be used to layout an entire page, but this is a little popup (or a big o

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

What's wrong with tables? Tables allow this box to be themeable, right? I agree that tables prolly shouldn't be used to layout an entire page, but this is a little popup (or a big one)... in either case, it just lays out the "frame" within which the content of the popup is held. I don't think t

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

uhm, all the samples seems not working on the last version of Safari ;) 2006/11/25, Matt Stith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Theres many reasons why someone would want to use thickbox instead of your > plugin. > > 1. Your plugin uses tables, noone likes tables. > 2. Your plugin is slow compared to thickb

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Yay! It's out! Thanks Gilles. Great work. I can't wait to start using it. Now, we need a little repository for different themes. :o) Chris Dragan Krstic wrote: But, I have a feelling that your plugin is very slow OTOH, semanticaly, you are right 2006/11/25, Webunity | Gilles van den Hove

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

Theres many reasons why someone would want to use thickbox instead of your plugin. 1. Your plugin uses tables, noone likes tables. 2. Your plugin is slow compared to thickbox 3. Your plugin uses a bunch of things from the Interface library, thickbox only needs jquery. 4. Your plugin is a bit hard

Re: [jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

But, I have a feelling that your plugin is very slow OTOH, semanticaly, you are right 2006/11/25, Webunity | Gilles van den Hoven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: And use my window plugin :) Why? Thickbox was made for images Window plugin was made for popups (dialogs) Just my $0.02 -- Gilles http:

[jQuery] Stop using thickbox!

And use my window plugin :) Why? Thickbox was made for images Window plugin was made for popups (dialogs) Just my $0.02 -- Gilles http://gilles.jquery.com/window/ ___ jQuery mailing list discuss@jquery.com http://jquery.com/discuss/