Hi Gregg:
> reads:"ETL VERIFIED TO EIA/TIA TSD-40 CATEGORY 5 E111018 TYPE CM 24 AWG
> (UL)LL92833 CSA TYPE FCC FT4"
Aha!
Here is what I learned about this cable from the
marking and from the UL web pages, and from the
National Electrical Code:
"E111018"
This is the UL file number
Hi Peter:
Thanks for sending the UL letter and UL Listing Mark page.
I stand corrected.
For Information Technology Equipment, UL's letter of March 31,
1995, authorizes the optional use of the file number as the
control number.
Apparently, this option is not available for non-ITE products.
Hi Robert:
> I got two NAV (Norton Antivirus) msgs back from the ieee.org that said my
> attachment had a virus in it.
>
> If so, please let me know, because there is nothing but text files (that I
> know of) and a simple batch program in that attachment.
The IEEE listserver check
Hi Gregg:
> The File number 'may' be used on things like cable (it is common to see UL
> and CSA file numbers) and other components - Control numbers (I forget the
> correct terminology) is required on some UR components but not all Listed
> products.
UL Listed wire:
According t
Hi Ron:
> 1. UL in a circle (the famous UL Listing mark symbol),
> 2. The word "LISTED" in capital letters,
> 3. The assigned control number*, and
> 4. Product identity (e.g., NWGQ, I.T.E., etc.)
>
> * The assigned control number is a designation that UL assigns to a
> manufactu
Hi Chris:
> Does the file number need to be on the label? Can the manufacturer
> leave the file number off of the label and simply put a generic UL (or
> CSA) mark on the product along with their nameplate identifying the
> manufacturer, model and serial number?
In my response to Am
Hi Amund:
> We are buying an UL recognized UL power supply to our ITE. Our power supply
> distributor has put his brandname on the power supply and the only link to
> the
> original power supply manufacturer is the UL number and not any name or
> logo.
> So the label on the power
Hi John:
> Not to Continental countries, AIUI, because rewirable plugs are not
> available (maybe in Denmark still).
Oh? In April, 2001, I bought a re-wirable plug in Grenoble,
France, at a major chain store. They had a nice selection!
Best regards,
Rich
-
Hi Brian:
> I have, w/in previous 6 mos, attended seminars offered by (2) agencies. I
> learned much from both, and appreciated being able to talk to the "gurus".
>
> But upon review of seminar notes and manuals from previous Product Safety
> Engineers, it would seem that issued ma
Hi Peter:
> I agree with you with your statement "rather than address products, safety
> standards need to address hazards". However, the "hazard" standards must be
> made taking into consideration the environment in which the product is used
> "light industry, heavy industry, medica
Hi Gregg:
> Consider the number of PRODUCT standards written - these reflect the
> accepted degree of protection (Operator or User) for each product under
> specified operating conditions and accepted uses.
I invite consideration of INJURY, and the means by
which an injury can occur fr
Hi John:
> But the standards for these products have to be written by experts in
> the design of these products - non-experts would not know the problems
> that can arise. To produce generic safety standards, experts in the
> design of ALL products would be required. These exist only o
Hi Enci:
The materials you mention, NOMEX aramid paper and
phenolic are suitable materials for your application.
For your application, I suggest the material be rated
VTM-1 or better. VTM means Very Thin Material, and is
a UL designation for the material flame rating.
I also suggest the mat
> It is the primary end use of the product that dictates the standard(s)
> required.
Unfortunately, this archaic and provincial view on
the part of standards organizations that standards
should be per product has created problems that
most of us would like to avoid.
Consider product saf
Hi John C. and John W.:
> >Would anyone have any guidelines on how to design computer graphics
> >in such a way to avoid inducing Photo Sensitive Epilepsy in anyone
> >who suffers from that complaint ?
..
..
..
> A web search for 'epilepsy AND photosensitivity' will probably give you
Hi John:
> Are you sure that you can get appreciable X-radiation at 8 kV? In the
> days of monochrome TV with 9 and 12 inch tubes running at 8 kV, we never
> bothered about X rays, but projection sets running at 25 kV were known
> as a radiation hazard. Maybe tolerance levels have be
[quote]Hi,
I am basically an EMC guy and do not know much about UL requirements. I
would like to know if there are any UL requirements for a driver with
output voltage swing of +/- 30V peak-to-peak. The RMS voltage will be much
smaller, and the power will be less than 0.5 watt. The driver is to
Hi Rick:
> I am working on a project that delivers 8 KV to 1" CRTs mounted on a
> helmet mounted display. The output of the high voltage supply is limited
> to 100uA and assuming that the supply complies with paragraph 2.4 (2.4.4
> in particular) Paragraph 2.4.1 states that:
Note t
Hi Patricia:
> Does anyone know the specific section of the CFR that refers to equipment
> at the workplace (specifically computer or test equipment) being Listed by a
> NRTL?
Safety of the workplace in regard of electrical
equipment is in 29 CFR 1910, Sub-part S. See:
http://ww
Sorry to post here but am running into a brick wall at trying to find out
something as simple as the resistivity and dielectric constant for skin!
Does anybody have a source? Need quick, please.
- Robert -
Hi Robert:
The skin resistivity and dielectric constan
Hi Amund:
> UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety
> area, to
> have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ?
Yes -- sort of. Safety certification of IT equipment
is mandatory in both Canada and the USA. However,
both countries accept safety cert
Hi Jim:
There are a number of ways to prove traceability
of "bulk-labelled" components, i.e., components
that are not indivually marked.
> - unmarked components - may not be able to tell mfr and cat. no, let alone
> agency status and ratings
These are really bulk-labelled components.
Hi Amund:
> We want our IT product to be UL approved. We purchase a modified power
> supply
> (PS) which is not UL appoved. The original PS is UL approved. The only
> difference in the PS is the value of one resistor which means that we now
> can
> take 2.3A/28VDC out instead of
Hi Lauren:
> Does anyone have a practical or authoritative definition of "Sound
> Engineering Practice?".
The key word is "sound." Presumably we all know
what "engineering practice" is.
I checked Merriam-Webster's on-line Collegiate
Dictionary and found the following definition.
The 3
Hi John and Tania:
Actually, the harmonic current problem is no
different between Europe and North America.
The basic problem is that the harmonic currents
generated in the load equipment are dissipated
in the delta primary of a delta-wye distribution
transformer. If the harmonic content i
Hi Richard:
A number of good comments have been made.
I'm not sure anyone covered the fact that
two wires make a bundle, and therefore each
single in that bundle must be derated.
So, a single 10 AWG is good for 32 amps at
20 C. But, two 10 AWG wires in the same
bundle are only good for 31
Hi George and Ravinder:
We really like to discourage off-topic discussions,
including virus warnings.
Here are some points I'd like to make:
1. The IEEE majordomo listserver includes virus checking
(for known viruses) of all messages posted to the
listserver. IEEE virus checking
Hi Ghery:
> Also EN 61000-3-3 needs to be considered. Useless standards, if you ask me.
Agreed!
EN 61000-3-2 is driven by Euro power distributors
who don't want to correct for non-linear loads.
(But who have no quarrel with correcting for
phase angle.)
I don't understand the drive for
Hi Dan:
> with a three prong NA cord set. I have found that if I bypass the earth
> ground plug I can measure a 80 VAC potential from my chassis to earth
This is normal.
Consider the circuit:
L >o-> 120 V rms
|
|
2200
The RCIC archive for emc-pstc messages will be shut
down, permanently, some time this week.
The archive itself is preserved.
We are working on a new web site for the archive.
We expect to announce the new web site along with
a number of other web-based features some time this
Fall.
We apol
Okay... more nostalgia and a bit on safety
back in those days... so that we don't stray
too far from the subject matter of this
forum.
My first TV was a Motorola 7-inch round in
a Bakelite cabinet. The speaker was the
same size as the CRT.
My second was the famous RCA 10-inch round
chassis w
Hi Terry:
> I don't recall the Sony but do recall the Philco and that Zenith held out
> with the `hand wired' chassis.
Now that you mention it... I do indeed
recall that campaign. But, I did not --
then -- realize the context.
Today, looking back, that campaign was
really quite absurd!
> >I saw the first PCB show up in TVs,
>
> Would you care to put a date on that?
>
> You can't change the facts. So yes! In the Middle to late 50's. :-)
Having been a TV serviceman until 1960 (end of
my college days), I saw no PCBs in USA TVs.
I do recall PCBs in circa 1963 TVs
Hi John:
> >This came up at IEC TC74 WG8 and was the object of several
> >proposals. We could come to no agreement about whether Class III
> >included TNV, earth connections, internally generated voltages of
> >assorted energies, etc., so we dropped the subject. It p
Hi Kyle:
> I have a new product that includes an off the shelf UPS that is rated for
> 230V ac operation and has an internal single pole circuit breaker on the
> mains inlet. We want to target this product world-wide. The UPS presently
> is CB and certified to EN60950 european only.
Hi Terry:
> I thought the lack of creapage spec. at >1000 V is that the dielectric
> strength of air would be less then the insulating material and surface
> accumulated contaminates. As a result the clearance distance would be the
> first to break down >1000 Volts.
In general, the ele
This statement piqued my interest:
> Surely that applies only to Class I products? IF not, it would rule out
> Class II and III products entirely. Battery-operated hand-helds are
> Class III.
Class III equipment is defined as equipment that
operates from a SELV supply and does not gener
Hi Israel and John:
> >I wonder how to specify creepage distance for Information Technology
> >Equipment.Table 6 in UL1950 or EN60950 specifies minimum creepage of
> >10 mm for Working voltage = 1000 V, pollution degree 2, material group IIIb
> >(basic insulation) linear Interpo
Hi Tania and Richard:
> When you find out any papers on this subject, please share with us.
I stumbled across a short, authoritative discussion
about why a mechanical vibration can feel like a
small electric shock. Actually, it is the other
way around. At small voltages and currents, t
Hi Peter:
> For back-up power supply connections to a device which has means for
> connection to a floating dc input of 44-57 Vdc / 15 A max (to serve as
> back-up source for the internal power over LAN source), what is the proper
> way of marking with symbols to IEC60417
Does the po
Hi Doug:
> done, the entire safety approval reduced to a simple
> cfm rating fan for a chip both on the secondary
> side of the power supply.
The issue for me is: What is the safety requirement
that requires cfm (I presume a minimum cfm)?
Reading between the lines...
The fan
Hi Ken:
> In conclusion, dithering will help you meet a test requirement, but it might
> not actually reduce potential interferences.
I have come to the same qualitative conclusion,
and the EMC experts with whom I have discussed
this concept agree.
But, is there any evidence, anecdotal,
EMC Forum,
I apologize for the "Shameless Advertisement on the Technocal Forum. It was
not my intention to break any rules of the IEEE society. I have been a
member for quite some time and thought that I have seen similar FREE OPEN
HOUSE events in the past. I have learned much from this gr
Hi Chris:
Consider a product with two, independent protective
grounding/earthing connections. This may be by
means of two power cords (as is done for uptime
reliablity by employing parallel power supplies) or
by means of one power cord and a separate ground
connection (as, for example, by m
Hi Dave:
> Can anybody tell me where it is defined at what point in production it is
> permissible to apply the UL mark? Can it only be done after the hi-pot has
> passed? Or is it OK to have the label applied before the test as long as the
> units are clearly marked as having failed
Hewlett-Packard has 3 product safety jobs available.
Requisition Position Location
number
--- -
711022Safety EngineerVancouver, Washington
713386Regs/Safety Engineer Vancouver, Washington
713501
Hi John:
> Because continuity at low current does not ensure that the protective
> circuit will carry a large fault current - it might be 'hanging on by
> one strand'.
Yes, for one strand. No, for five strands.
Some years ago, I did some experiments on what
problems the 25-amp test
Hi Tania:
> I hate to call you an old-timer;-- I would rather state that you might be
> thinking of UL 114 and UL478 standards that are no longer in force. B
> ut I don't believe that even they allowed a willy-nilly change from groun
> ded equipment to one that is ungrounded, unles
> Do EU manufacturers have to fit a suitable mains plug
> to appliances when exporting to USA?... or can it
> be supplied without a plug, putting the requirement on the user
> to follow the instructions - in my case, stating that
> a grounding plug must be used ?
There are two answers
Here's a web site that reports that CDs will come
apart if attempted to be read at 64x.
http://www.qedata.se/en-cdrom.htm
There is no data as to what happens in a real CD
drive.
Enjoy!
Rich
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Prod
> I am in the UK, a customer in USA wants us to fit
> 2 pin mains plugs to the Class 1 appliances he
> is going to be buying from us.
>
> He is very firm that there are no regulations in US
> that requires this to be so. Is that true?
The simple answer is that there is no regulati
Hi Ravinder:
> I am interested in knowing if a 120V, 60Hz microwave oven can be safely
> used on a 240V, 50Hz mains supply with a step-down transformer.
In essence, you are asking if a microwave oven
rated for 60 Hz will operate safely at 50 Hz.
I would guess that the microwave oven use
A summary of the emc-pstc survey results is now available
on the Product Safety Newsletter web site:
http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
The results are in a 16k pdf file. If you are unable to
access our web site, send e-mail to either Jim or Rich
and we will be happy to send you
Hell Duncan:
> - Would they use S1 when leakage testing our type of equipment?
Your equipment is cord-connected equipment, not
direct-plug-in equipment. Therefore, S1 is not
used when testing leakage current from your
equipment.
> - What is the definition of 'direct plug in' (it is
If you haven't filled out the IEEE emc-pstc survey,
please do so no later than 05 May.
Please go to this URL for the survey:
http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/Survey/
At my last check, only about 20% of our subscribers
have completed the survey. I'd really like to get
80% or better
Hi Rick:
There are three issues which we must address:
1. The safety function of the switch.
2. The safety function of all-pole disconnect
versus one-pole disconnect.
3. The marking of the function of the switch.
*
The safety function of a disconnect device (for
which a switch
Dan Kinney asks about pole-to-pole hi-pot testing.
The hi-pot test determines that the product's
insulation (both air and solid) is sufficient to
withstand the normally-occuring transient over-
voltages on a power line. Transient over-voltages
are both differential-mode (pole-to-pole) and
Hi Ken:
Here are some quotes:
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/microexp.html#demo:
Q: Aren't these ovens tuned to a special frequency so they only heat
water?
A: No. The usual operating frequency of a microwave oven is nowhere
near the resonant frequency of water, and the
Hi Dave:
> the UL report for the PSU, it states that the output is ELV, not SELV,
> because of the connector interfacing the modules to the rack.
I don't see how a connector makes the difference
between ELV and SELV.
The terms "ELV" and "SELV" imply the energy is
derived from a hazardou
> expressed as 'dmax', the maximum relative voltage change, measured as an
> r.m.s. value over the worst half-cycle, starting from the zero-crossing.
While I suppose there are sophisticated oscilloscopes
that will make this measurement at the touch of a button,
I wonder how many colleagues
Hi George and all:
Yes, we are having some listserver multiple send
problems. Please bear with us while we fix the
problem.
Please direct all such questions to me or to one
of our admins at the bottom of the message. Even
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Hello from San Diego:
One of my colleagues has added material of interest to
one of Chris Allen's humorous stories.
Best regards,
Rich
This is actually a true story (with some adjustment). It happened at a Ford
plant back in the 1930's (which makes the $50K fee all the more
significant
Hi John:
> >Of course, no one has shown that unacceptable
> >overheating will actually occur.
>
> Do you have any more such gems to contribute? What do you think happens
> to the total current through a capacitor when the applied voltage
> contains harmonics? What happens to the
Hi John:
I must admit to several motives for posting my
message regarding the WSJ-E opinion article.
1. I wanted our subscribers to know that the
issue rated comment in the WSJ-E, a high-
level, respected newspaper.
2. I wanted our subscribers to know that the
technical argume
With thanks to Ed Jones...
On Thusday, February 22, The Wall Street Journal Europe
published an interesting opinion on the harmonic current
emissions standard.
The opinion is by Rob Hunter, a lawyer and Chairman of
the Centre for the New Europe, a Brussels-based think
tank.
Mr. Hunter is qu
Hi Kaz:
Answering the question, "what's the safety concern,"
is a reverse-engineering process with respect to the
various requirements contained in the standard.
Applying the requirements of the standard to the
specific construction may involve or even require
interpretetation of the stand
Hi Kazimier and Terry:
Kazimier suggests asking the question:
"what's the safety concern"
Unfortunately, safety certification houses
do not have the option of accepting products
based on the answer to this question.
A safety certification house certifies a
product to a standard. Supp
It appears that one of our subscribers has been subjected
to a virus. The IEEE listserver stripped the virus from
the posted messages, so the virus was not passed on to
you and our other subscribers.
It appears that the worst that has happened is that
duplicate messages were posted to the l
Hi Bob, Pete, Gert:
> A common equipotential environment is the goal. It's unfortunate we ever
> started with the terms earthing or grounding.
Absolutely!
Furthermore, the equipotential environment can
be, and in some cases is, largely independent
of whether the protective conductor i
problems
that come up.
If you find this listserver to be of value to you, and
you can spare some time each day to help, and you have
a high-speed connection to the internet, please
consider volunteering for 2 years to help keep this
service running.
Please contact me or Jim Bacher.
Best reg
Hi Andy:
> Is it possible that a piece of equipment with an NRTL listing can be
> disconnected by a local electrical inspector/electrician enforcing the NEC
> because that paticular NRTL is not "approved" in their jurisdiction?
Yes.
Please recognize:
"NRTL" is an OSHA program gove
Hi Chris:
> For instance, one of the messages says that the NEC gives an electrician the
> right to unplug an un-NRTL-marked piece of equipment. Another message
> states that the NRTL's mark is the proof of product safety.
"NRTL" is a designation issued by OSHA.
"Approved" is a d
Hi Courtland:
> I have a question concerning labeling a product. If we go to a NRTL and get
> Safety testing performed, we typically put the Safety logo (UL for example)
> on the product label. Our marketing people have a problem with having
> different logo's. They would like to stan
Hi Kate:
> a) Do they allow presence in lab (technical area) itself ? If not, then
> where are clients who are at the lab normally placed?
Depends on whether the lab is testing a competitor's
products. If not, then I can usually observe the
testing.
If I can't go into the lab to witne
Hi Ed:
> Since the manufacturer is providing an official (or maybe authorized) path
> into the equipment for normal operator intervention, should the internal
> "dangerous" parts also be color-coded or otherwise flagged?
No.
When the interlock is de-activated, the requirement
is th
Hi Paul:
> However, to release the interlock, a PAUSE or STOP button is pressed which
> allows the instrument to stop in an orderly way and then release the cover.
>
> Best as I can tell, a red pushbutton, with PAUSE or STOP legend and the ! in
> a triangle (to refer the operator b
I'd like to clear up a few things about the
situation regarding F-Squared Labs.
1. F-Squared Labs did NOT post its message to
the IEEE listserver. It appeared in our
distribution because one of our subscribers
inadvertantly included it as an attachment
to his posting.
Hi John:
> Can you tell me the typical power consumption of a desktop
> VDU. For example a Sun workstation VDU rating plate indicates
> 220-230 V 1.5A. Rather than assume or guess a power factor
> value, what would the power reading (Watts) be approximately
> at 220V for nornal oper
Hi Doug:
> There are four observation periods listed in para 6.2.4 of A14 (table Z1), I
> assume that I only have to pick the one that suitably qualifies my
> equipment's operation, or must I apply each one to determine the best period
> of observation?
>From my reading of prA14 (I
Hi Craig:
Be careful:
> EN61000-3-2 - Applies only to products with input power higher than
> 75W. Per paragraph 7.4 of the standard, "no limits apply for equipment
> with an active input power up to and including 75W".
No. The standard does NOT say that it applies only
to products with i
Hi Cortland:
> One can also use a pair of probes known to be well balanced and take the
> difference between the A and B channels, or
> use a differential input accessory or plugin. There is then no possibility
> of high-voltage on the instrument chassis.
"Balance" is really Common-Mod
Hi Xing Weibing:
> 2. supply the SMPS from an isolating transformer where
> both supply conductors are isolated from ground.
> 3. connect secondary's ground and primary 's ground (neutral and ground
> are connected together)
This is the correct connection for measuring the
prim
Hi Xing Weibing:
One of the problems of making oscilloscope measurements
within switching-mode power supply circuits is that the
common side of the oscilloscope *MAY* change the waveform.
There are two ways to minimize the effect of the common
side of the scope from affecting the waveform:
Hi Ted:
> it seems that the low voltage used in the application is being
> mistaken for low energy. Your garden variety alkaline manganese cell
> has such a low internal resistance that it behaves as a little bomb when
> shorted. Same with lithium battery technology. If the solar cell can
Hi Chris:
We use similar circuits.
The circuit is an inverter powered from SELV. The
inverter output is hazardous voltage. Usually, the
output is floating, but not always.
The output MAY be hazardous energy ONLY IF the SELV
is hazardous energy. If the SELV is hazardous energy,
the in
.
Best regards,
Rich
> From douglas_beckw...@mitel.com Tue Jun 4 09:35:39 PDT 2002
> Subject: Re: UL 60950, Section 6.1.2.1
> To: Rich Nute
> Cc: rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:27:52 -0400
>
>
>
The policy for emc-pstc postings allows for posting of
availability of used or surplus equipment commonly used
by subscribers to this listserver. (See the Charter
that was sent to you when you subscribed.)
However, the policy does not include advertising of
any kind.
So, how do we decide
Hi Richard:
> For those who want to read the UL60950 Section 6.1.2.1, I have written the
> specific parts of the section that I have questions on. Otherwise, here are
> my questions and comments:
>
> 1) If the bridging components are left in place, do I still have to meet the
> 1
The subject matter for this forum is
product safety
EMC
telecom
and related issues.
Off-topic postings dilute the value of this forum
and are discouraged.
I am declaring the subject of guns as off-topic.
Further discussion of this topic may result in
deletion from the subsc
Hi Doug:
Thanks for sharing your findings on insulating tape
and anti-static tape.
All insulators have the property of insulation
resistance. Modern insulations have insulation
resistances in the gigaohm and teraohm ranges.
I would guess that anti-static insulators have a
relatively low va
Hi John:
> Now we have sub-classes Y1 to Y4. Y capacitors can be used in locations
> where neither side is grounded, but in the OP's context, grounding is
> involved.
What are the definitions of the various Y
capacitors in the most edition of IEC 384?
OP?
> >A Y-cap can be used
Hi John:
> >Ground connections is usually nice to have when dealing with EMC. But what
> >about EMC and a class 2 (double insulation) power supply (shall comply with
> >MIL-STD-461E) . I'm thinking on, what to do with the regularly Y-caps,
> >does it really have any meaning with t
Hi Chris, Bill, and all other subscribers:
A message with the subject:
A very nice game
was sent to the IEEE (emc-pstc) for posting by
our listserver.
The original message contained a virus known
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The IEEE computer detected the virus.
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Hi Josh:
> This standard has been adopted by China and Japan. Japan has added a
source impedance for the test setup, but it implies to me that this is a
world-wide issue.
The question I was attempting to answer was
John's question if 61000-3-2 is not an EMC
standard, then what kind of a
Hi John:
> >Some have questioned whether 61000-3-2 is even an EMC standard!
>
> If not, what do you think it is?
I fall into the group that question whether 61000-3-2
is an EMC -- Electo-Magnetic Compatibility -- standard.
The objective is to prevent reduction of peak voltage
on the
Hi Peter:
> The body shape and dimensions, the pin sizes shapes,
> dimensions and orientations where they interface with an
> appliance coupler I know are defined. I don't have copies
> of all of the IEC60320 documents and am unaware that the
> product interior side of the applianc
Hi Peter and Raymond:
> To verify the veracity of my memory, I went to my lab and
> took two manufacturer's C14 appliance inlets and applied
> 5kVac from both poles to the earthing terminal for 7 mins.
> each, with the instrument sensitivity adjusted to its
> maximum (eg, minimum cu
Hi Peter and Raymond:
> In the sake of fairness, it should be noted that both of my
> EUTs had solder loops and were not intended for surface or
> through-hole mounting to a PWB. For the sake of our mutual
> edification, it would be interesting to see how the
> appliance inlet in R
Hello Chengwee:
> Whether customer can accept his adaptor with only 1500Vac hipot tested
where
> other power supplies can withstand 3000Vac?
This is an interesting question as it implies
that the higher the withstand voltage the better
the unit. The statement may even imply that a
doub
Hi Peter:
> > I have and continue to advocate (in IEC TC 108)
> > that such classes should apply to CIRCUITS, not
> > to products.
>
> If this is endemic in IEC (as your statement implies), it
> may require a elephantine effort. Good luck.
Yes. And thank you.
The IEC Class I
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