Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
Have you heard of openDog, the open source hardware robot quadruped? A google for open source robot dog brings up it and some others people are working on. Boston Dynamics has been a big inspiration. Now when do we get open source bipedal robots? On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 12:58:00 PM MST

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Frank Tkalcevic
> Harmonic and cycloidic reduction drives are to slow > 6:1 or 10:1 should work. My first robot arm used 9:1 3d printed cycloidal gear boxed (plus 3:1 motor to gearbox pulley reduction). Cyclodial ratios can be made small with less teeth/lobes and larger pins. I'm not sure if that makes them an

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
Rotary broaching is a process used to quickly cut internal ring gears. On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 6:21:08 AM MST, andy pugh wrote: On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 13:05, wrote: > I believe that wire EDM is the usual way to make small quantities of internal > (ring) gears. It seems possibl

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread andy pugh
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 19:58, Chris Albertson wrote: > Using robotic > terminology it will be a quadruped where each leg has 3 degrees of freedom. > My goal is to design something that can be made for under $100 per axis > ($1,200 total cost) This is actually possible but performance is poor

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread ken.strauss
Emc-users Sent: March 11, 2021 1:39 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Cc: Gregg Eshelman Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill?? Could have it water jet cut on a machine with a tilting head for kerf angle compensation. Water jet cutters tend to make the exit

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Frank Tkalcevic
> Not sure if anyone mentioned, spiral hobs will not work unless your hob can > be tilted to the required angle of the hob cutter. Even for straight teeth, > it's at least 1.5�. Wouldn't it be easier in the home workshop to just tilt the rotary table holding the work piece up 1.5 degrees? ___

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Chris Albertson
THanks, all for you advice. I think the best way to get a small ring gear is to buy one. What I'm doing is a design-study to find out the best kind of reduction system. Timing belts are very easy to use but sun/planet gears are far more compact. I want to make a machine, using machine-tool t

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread andy pugh
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 19:29, Jon Elson wrote: > Bridgeport made an adapter to turn their mill into a mini > shaper for this purpose. A "slotting head" Many mills had them available as an accessory. (Including my Harrison) it basically makes them into a slotter, rather than a shaper: http://ww

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Jon Elson
On 03/11/2021 12:39 PM, Peter Hodgson wrote: Could you not make a broaching cutter mounted in the quill and cnc broach one tooth at a time with the stock mounted on a rotary table? That's a slow version of the custom gear cutter and right angle drive. Bridgeport made an adapter to turn their

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Feral Engineer
Oohh that looks like fun! Phil T. The Feral Engineer Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer On Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 2:18 PM andy pugh wrote: > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 19:11, Feral Engineer > wrote: > > > > As a side note, fanuc, Mit

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread andy pugh
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 19:11, Feral Engineer wrote: > > As a side note, fanuc, Mitsubishi and the other big names have a dedicated > hobbing function that synchronizes the linear and rotary axis based on > number of teeth, module, pitch diameter, tooth angle... Bunch of factors. The LinuxCNC vers

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Feral Engineer
As a side note, fanuc, Mitsubishi and the other big names have a dedicated hobbing function that synchronizes the linear and rotary axis based on number of teeth, module, pitch diameter, tooth angle... Bunch of factors. I can upload documentation on these functions if anyone wants to read about it

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Feral Engineer
Not sure if anyone mentioned, spiral hobs will not work unless your hob can be tilted to the required angle of the hob cutter. Even for straight teeth, it's at least 1.5°. Usually, I do this with a dedicated live tool that has an adjustable angle or a mill turn machine (DMG Mori NT/NTX series machi

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
One method is to make a multi-tooth straight hob with teeth that have flat sides. On each pass it does a full cut on the tooth or gullet on the center line of the gear and partial cuts to the teeth and gullets above and below. That makes a faceted approximation of involute teeth. If you have the

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Matthew Herd
That’s basically Andy’s idea to simulate a fellows gear shaper by interpolating the tooth form. It’s probably the easiest way if you can work out the math and lock the quill rotation. And grind the appropriate size cutter. Matt > On Mar 11, 2021, at 1:39 PM, Peter Hodgson wrote: > > Could y

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Peter Hodgson
Could you not make a broaching cutter mounted in the quill and cnc broach one tooth at a time with the stock mounted on a rotary table? Pete > On 11 Mar 2021, at 18:06, Greg Bernard wrote: > > This doesn't address the op but it is intriguing: > https://www.igus.com/info/3d-printed-gear > >>

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
Could have it water jet cut on a machine with a tilting head for kerf angle compensation. Water jet cutters tend to make the exit side of the cut slightly wider so a 2 axis tilting head can push all that to the waste side. On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 3:15:07 AM MST, andy pugh wrote: Cu

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Greg Bernard
This doesn't address the op but it is intriguing: https://www.igus.com/info/3d-printed-gear On Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 11:14 AM andy pugh wrote: > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 17:08, Jon Elson wrote: > > > Or, with a mini right angle drive attached to the machine quill. > > Though to do that you would hav

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread andy pugh
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 17:08, Jon Elson wrote: > Or, with a mini right angle drive attached to the machine quill. Though to do that you would have to make your own convex involute cutters. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread Jon Elson
On 03/11/2021 12:28 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: The really hard part that I don't know how to do is a ring gear. I can't figure out how to cut internal teeth. I might just buy these if they can't be machined. Internal teeth need to be cut with a gear shaper, or specialized gear hobbing machi

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread andy pugh
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 13:05, wrote: > I believe that wire EDM is the usual way to make small quantities of internal > (ring) gears. It seems possible that one might imitate a mini-Fellows by > moving the z-axis up/down to shave the gear. Bear in mind that the Fellows system still generates th

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread ken.strauss
chine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill?? On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 06:31, Chris Albertson wrote: > What's the best kind of steel to buy that gives a combination of > machinability on a small mill and strength. I will concur with Marcus, when maki

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread andy pugh
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 06:31, Chris Albertson wrote: > What's the best kind of steel to buy that gives a > combination of machinability on a small mill and strength. I will concur with Marcus, when making starter gears for the Ner-a-Car I used EN8. EN8 is the old name (ie, before 1970) name for

Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

2021-03-11 Thread marcus . bowman
On 2021-03-11 06:28, Chris Albertson wrote: What's the best kind of steel to buy that gives a combination of machinability on a small mill and strength. I would be inclined to try EN8T which is a machinable steel with some tensile strength that can easily be hardened afterwards, using an oxy-

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Jon Elson
Greg Michalski wrote: > > Another thought comes to mind, could wire EDM be used to cut very small > gears and pinions? You bet! For hair-thin wheels and intricate escapement profiles, they are the way to go. Of course, wire EDM is a whole other domain, and you can't buy a $500 Chinese wire EDM

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Ian W. Wright
Jon Elson wrote.. It just seems to me that if you have a CNC machine of any type, you should be able to cut a master tool for the form required. Then, that tool could cut the gear teeth directly, and reduce a 5 hour job to 15 minutes! Even if you only have a mill, you can mount a di

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 20:29 +0100, Dave Caroline wrote: > Idea is ok but Dremel stuff is in no way suitable for the scales that > Ian Wright or us need when cutting watch pinion sizes. I just used the Dremel term to describe a type of abrasive disk, because most people are familiar with Dremel too

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 13:17 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: > Ian W. Wright wrote: > > > One of the main reasons I want to try to generate gears and, > > particularly, pinions is the great problem I have in trying to make > > working pinion cutters small enough for the watches I work on. > It just seems

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Dave Caroline
Idea is ok but Dremel stuff is in no way suitable for the scales that Ian Wright or us need when cutting watch pinion sizes. The positional accuracy needed to get a good form to the result is also a problem. Involute form is easy as a hobbing action and generation is possible but not for cycloidal

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Greg Michalski
Another thought comes to mind, could wire EDM be used to cut very small gears and pinions? I know I've seen someone take a rotary tool similar to a Proxon (beefy dremel type) and true out the spindle and cut his collets using EDM and they were fairly small. So I don't see why doing gears - as

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 09:40 +0100, Ian W. Wright wrote: ... snip > The big problem making a cutter is all down to the size and the > difficulty in measuring and working to exact tiny dimensions. The 5-leaf > pinion I need to make at the moment has a flat in the bottom of the > tooth spaces of ju

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Jon Elson
Ian W. Wright wrote: > One of the main reasons I want to try to generate gears and, > particularly, pinions is the great problem I have in trying to make > working pinion cutters small enough for the watches I work on. It just seems to me that if you have a CNC machine of any type, you should b

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Dave Caroline
We should talk one day, I work with Chris Lowe at Richards of Burton, and have made a cnc to cut gears here, I still use a Safag for the really small stuff though. I want to do profile work for escape wheels, verge and normal. Dave Caroline archivist on the #emc IRC channel on freenode --

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-13 Thread Ian W. Wright
Hi Kirk, One of the main reasons I want to try to generate gears and, particularly, pinions is the great problem I have in trying to make working pinion cutters small enough for the watches I work on. I could get cutters made but, as you have said, a different one is required for each individu

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-12 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Thu, 2008-06-12 at 03:45 -0400, W. Jacobs wrote: > I do not know much about CNC operation but need to ask a question about > the operation similar to this gear cutting. > > Machinery's handbook (20th) describes how to construct an involute on > page 288. I read this as the involute is the le

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-12 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Thu, 2008-06-12 at 01:51 -0700, Kirk Wallace wrote: > On Thu, 2008-06-12 at 08:31 +0100, Steve Blackmore wrote: > ... snip > > > > http://www.jeffree.co.uk/Pages/cnc-wheel-cutting-engine.htm > > > > I've seen that in operation and used it at a show here in the UK, it's > > not slow, gear cutte

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-12 Thread Jon Elson
Steve Blackmore wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:38:02 -0500, you wrote: >>In theory, this can be done. A thin slitting saw would deflect >>too much to get an accurate tooth profile. You can buy gear >>tooth cutters and run them like this, and it will go much >>faster, which is still fairly sl

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-12 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Thu, 2008-06-12 at 08:31 +0100, Steve Blackmore wrote: ... snip > > http://www.jeffree.co.uk/Pages/cnc-wheel-cutting-engine.htm > > I've seen that in operation and used it at a show here in the UK, it's > not slow, gear cutter rpm was about 2500 rpm and you can stuff the > cutter through the b

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-12 Thread W. Jacobs
I do not know much about CNC operation but need to ask a question about the operation similar to this gear cutting. Machinery's handbook (20th) describes how to construct an involute on page 288. I read this as the involute is the length of a line tangent to the circle, equal to the cord of th

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-12 Thread Steve Blackmore
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:38:02 -0500, you wrote: >Kirk Wallace wrote: >> Has anyone tried cutting gears with something similar to this >> arrangement? >> >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Gear_Cutter-1b.png >> >> I was thinking a slot saw (gray disk) could be used, centered on the >>

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-11 Thread Jon Elson
Kirk Wallace wrote: > Has anyone tried cutting gears with something similar to this > arrangement? > > http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Gear_Cutter-1b.png > > I was thinking a slot saw (gray disk) could be used, centered on the > gear shaft(violet). The gear tooth form could be followe

Re: [Emc-users] Gear Cutting

2008-06-11 Thread Kirk Wallace
Here is an interesting gear link: http://www.cadquest.com/books/pdf/gears.pdf -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending Craftsman AA 109 restoration Shizuoka S