, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 20:53:47 + (UTC)
> From: Lawrence Rhodes
> To:ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner?
> Message-ID:<1956029850.2785592.1545857627...@mail.yahoo.com>
&g
multiple fields, and various news media.
> > The hydrogen skeptics don't bother poking me. And for clarity, regarding
> > hydrogen, I did not say nothing has changed, I said things have not changed
> > much on the technology side other than increasing on-board storage.
&g
garding
> hydrogen, I did not say nothing has changed, I said things have not changed
> much on the technology side other than increasing on-board storage.
>
> Darryl McMahon (driving electric since 1978)
>
>
>> On 12/27/2018 11:02 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.o
/27/2018 11:02 AM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 20:32:43 -0800
From: Mark Abramowitz
To:dar...@econogics.com, Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner?
Message-ID:<31d037dd-aa34-425f-8
occasional longer trips), I
>> looked into this early in this century, and kept some track since. Things
>> have not changed much on the technology side in the intervening period for
>> hydrogen vehicles, other than using bigger storage at higher pressure.
>>>
>>> Dar
echnology side in the intervening period for
> hydrogen vehicles, other than using bigger storage at higher pressure.
> >
> > Darryl McMahon
> > Author, award-winning book: The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (2006)
> > (on digest mode, so don't expect quick responses)
> &g
10
From: Mark Abramowitz via EV
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 10:12 PM
To: dar...@econogics.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Mark Abramowitz
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner?
We’ve made incredible progress over just the last few years in greening
6/2018 4:09 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 20:53:47 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Lawrence Rhodes
>> To:ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner?
>> Message-ID:<1956029850.2785592.154
“Except for the upper stage of a rocket, hydrogen makes no sense,” Elon Musk,
the parent of the battery-powered Roadster and Model S said in an e-mail
interview to ScienceFriday.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 26, 2018, at 3:38 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> Remember how the
I won't dismiss H2 quite as hard and fast as Lawrence just did, but I think
he's mostly on the right track.
Twenty years ago I thought that, despite its appreciably greater complexity
and cost, potential safety issues, and lower efficiency, H2 might be the
"magic bullet" for the range that
...@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 20:53:47 + (UTC)
From: Lawrence Rhodes
To:ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner?
Message-ID:<1956029850.2785592.1545857627...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8&q
California uses mostly hydro at night. There are natural gas plants for high
demand. I think that is how it works or should work. Lawrence Rhodes
-- next part --
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>Remember how the BEV industry was just 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and 30
>years and more ago.
>Back then, while pushing for years for a ZEV mandate, I heard many of the same
>arguments used by the auto and oil companies >about BEVs as I have heard for
>several years about hydrogen.
-
On 24 Dec 2018 at 11:44, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
> oeThen at night, you may be charging on on "fossil" power; but it's just
> getting back the power you "loaned" the grid by day.
>
> ITMm not so sure about this. We do store some PV for use later, but where we
> canTMt, that resource just
“Then at night, you may be charging on on "fossil" power; but it's just getting
back the power you "loaned" the grid by day.”
I’m not so sure about this. We do store some PV for use later, but where we
can’t, that resource just gets curtailed (or we pay Arizona to take it).
- Mark
Sent from
From: Mark Abramowitz via EV
>See the subject of the thread for the bottom line answer, though things are
>never as simple as a one-liner.
That's for sure! It's not a simple problem; so there are no simple answers. If
anyone who has a simple answer, it's probably wrong. :-)
>For someone who
ectric Vehicle Discussion
List"
Sent: 23-Dec-18 6:49:49 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation “cleaner”
(GHG emissions) than the grid
See the subject of the thread for the bottom line answer, though things are
never as simple as a one-liner. But I gave you
st
> helpful.
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark Abramowitz"
> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>
> Sent: 23-Dec-18 3:34:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation “clea
, that would be most helpful.
Peri
-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abramowitz"
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List"
Sent: 23-Dec-18 3:34:36 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation “cleaner”
(GHG emissi
;>> away.
>>>
>>> - Mark
>>>
>>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 22, 2018, at 4:49 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I, too, question the meaning of "on a path of 100% carbon-f
ot; Actually, I have done some looking and
> not found anything that shows cracking is more efficient than using the
> electricity directly in BEVs.
>
> I don't want to focus on whether BEVs are better or not than fuel cell EVs.
> Just which is a more efficient usage of source ene
-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abramowitz"
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List"
Sent: 23-Dec-18 11:55:15 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation “cleaner”
(GHG emissions) than the grid
To be clear, my interest
n board with this, perhaps
there's something completely wrong with my assumptions. Please correct me.
Peri
-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV"
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Mark Abramowitz"
Sent: 20-Dec-18 5:49:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hyd
I’ve not read it, and am not familiar with it, but can tell you that the
industry has changed quite a bit.
Remember how the BEV industry was just 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and 30 years
and more ago.
Back then, while pushing for years for a ZEV mandate, I heard many of the same
arguments
board with this, perhaps
> there's something completely wrong with my assumptions. Please correct me.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV"
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "Mark Abramowitz"
> Sent: 20-Dec-18 5
One of our long term list members, Darryl McMahon, who I think still
contributes here occasionally, wrote a book on hydrogen several years
ago. It is available on Amazon as well as from his own site. Covers
things being discussed here.
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/index.htm
ot;
Sent: 20-Dec-18 5:49:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation “cleaner”
(GHG emissions) than the grid
Sorry, that last part should read “though unintentionally”
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
So
Well, the charter is the charter, and it makes sense.
That being said, I prefer to do my talking about fuel cells in other forums.
And except for this post that I knew would be of interest to many here, I never
start any threads about fuel cells. And here, am trying to make sure that
thread
On 21 Dec 2018 at 4:58, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
> Fuel cell vehicles are NOT off-topic (check the charter)
Correct. However, if you read this page
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
You will find this statement:
"Many years ago, EVDL members decided that fuel cell vehicles and
For those with a strong aversion to relying on fossil fuels, the use of
non-petroleum gas is certainly more virtuous than using regular Nat gas.
For those concerned about greenhouse gases emissions, use of non-fossil natural
gas can result in a net *decrease* of GHG emissions.(if you have
Willie,
Fuel cell vehicles are NOT off-topic (check the charter), but I put OT in there
just because I thought that this particular conversation was OT - but perhaps
it isn’t OT.
Is there a future? Not really the subject of the post, and also a question I’m
not sure how I would ever answer a
Discussion List
*Subject:* Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation “cleaner”
(GHG emissions) than the grid
Hey, it’s more than that in the statement, if you read carefully.
But you obviously have an FUD agenda, so the statement wasn’t really meant
for you. I won’t respond to you again
On 12/21/18 6:58 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
Willie,
Fuel cell vehicles are NOT off-topic (check the charter), but I put OT in there
just because I thought that this particular conversation was OT - but perhaps
it isn’t OT.
Is there a future? Not really the subject of the post, and also a
On 12/20/18 7:49 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
Sorry, that last part should read “though unintentionally”
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
Some of you know that I’ve been an advocate for BEVs for a number of decades,
But just setting a goal to produce "carbon free hydrogen" is still just
snake oil, hog wash that can never compete with EVs.
bob
:
> > On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz
> wrote:
> >
> > Some of you know that I’ve been an advocate for BEVs for a number of
> decades, and of hydrogen
Sorry, that last part should read “though unintentionally”
- Mark
Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
>
> Some of you know that I’ve been an advocate for BEVs for a number of decades,
> and of hydrogen fuel cell EVs (the “other”
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