Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 1 Jul 2019, at 09:45, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 1:13:00 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 28 Jun 2019, at 16:52, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> If an ARM processor running any ARM code [ http://www.toves.org/books/arm/ >>

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 1:13:00 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 28 Jun 2019, at 16:52, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > If an ARM processor running any ARM code [ http://www.toves.org/books/arm/ ] > program is ever conscious, or a computer consisting of 10^10 ARM processors > running m

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 28 Jun 2019, at 16:52, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 4:58:06 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 26 Jun 2019, at 16:23, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 8:45:42 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 26 Jun 2019, at

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 4:58:06 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 16:23, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 8:45:42 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 26 Jun 2019, at 11:30, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, June 26, 20

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 26 Jun 2019, at 16:23, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 8:45:42 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 26 Jun 2019, at 11:30, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 3:55:26 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 25 Jun 2019,

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 8:45:42 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 11:30, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 3:55:26 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 25 Jun 2019, at 20:17, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 25, 2

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 26 Jun 2019, at 11:30, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 3:55:26 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 25 Jun 2019, at 20:17, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:44:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> The universal mac

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Wednesday, June 26, 2019 at 3:55:26 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 25 Jun 2019, at 20:17, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:44:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> The universal machine provides an account of its >> body/code/theory/finite-things

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 25 Jun 2019, at 21:14, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 6/25/2019 9:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 24 Jun 2019, at 19:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/24/2019 2:13 AM, Br

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 25 Jun 2019, at 20:17, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:44:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > The universal machine provides an account of its > body/code/theory/finite-things/number (the []p of G1 and Z1, according to > some nuances, as well as G1* and Z

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On 6/25/2019 9:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Jun 2019, at 19:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 6/24/2019 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Jun 2019, at 05:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 at 10:44:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > The universal machine provides an account of its > body/code/theory/finite-things/number (the []p of G1 and Z1, according to > some nuances, as well as G1* and Z1*). > > I don’t know what you mean by psychical body. Wit

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 24 Jun 2019, at 19:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 6/24/2019 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 24 Jun 2019, at 05:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/23/2019 1:55 AM, Br

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 24 Jun 2019, at 19:01, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 5:12:38 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 24 Jun 2019, at 11:26, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 4:13:51 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 24 Jun 2019, at 05

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On 6/24/2019 3:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: That every "universal machine/number" has "the same physics" would be consistent with materialism: Yes. But materialism is not consistent with the stronger assumption of Mechanism. The strong AI thesis is consistent with Materialism, although not

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On 6/24/2019 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Jun 2019, at 05:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 6/23/2019 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:  That sounds a bit observer dependent. Yes. It is. The physical reality becomes a first pe

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 5:12:38 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Jun 2019, at 11:26, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 4:13:51 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 24 Jun 2019, at 05:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> everyth...@googlegroup

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 24 Jun 2019, at 11:26, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 4:13:51 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 24 Jun 2019, at 05:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 6/23/2019 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> That sounds a bit observer

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 4:13:51 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Jun 2019, at 05:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > > > On 6/23/2019 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > That sounds a bit observer dependent. > > Yes. It is. The physical

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 24 Jun 2019, at 05:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 6/23/2019 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> That sounds a bit observer dependent. >> >> Yes. It is. The physical reality becomes a first person plural view of >> arithmetic seen by itself from the universal n

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On 6/23/2019 1:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:  That sounds a bit observer dependent. Yes. It is. The physical reality becomes a first person plural view of arithmetic seen by itself from the universal number/machine perspective. An observer is just a (Löbian) machine seen from the material mod

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 23 Jun 2019, at 12:01, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:55:44 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > For logical reason, when we assume the digital mechanist hypothesis, we just > cannot assume more than (very) elementary arithmetic. > > The physical reality, to b

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 3:55:44 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > For logical reason, when we assume the digital mechanist hypothesis, we > just cannot assume more than (very) elementary arithmetic. > > The physical reality, to be explained, will need much more than > arithmetic, but it

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 21 Jun 2019, at 00:38, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 8:43:08 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 20 Jun 2019, at 00:26, Lawrence Crowell > > wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 6:02:54 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 18 Jun 2019, at 02:14,

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

Continuing on below On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 5:38:53 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 8:43:08 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 20 Jun 2019, at 00:26, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 6:02:54 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wr

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Thursday, June 20, 2019 at 8:43:08 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Jun 2019, at 00:26, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 6:02:54 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 18 Jun 2019, at 02:14, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >> >> The stochastic aspects of QM

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 20 Jun 2019, at 00:26, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 6:02:54 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 18 Jun 2019, at 02:14, Lawrence Crowell > > wrote: >> >> The stochastic aspects of QM emerge in measurement, where the modulus square >> of amplitudes are pro

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 6:02:54 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Jun 2019, at 02:14, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > The stochastic aspects of QM emerge in measurement, where the modulus > square of amplitudes are probabilities and there are these random outcomes. > The measurement

Re: determinism and randomness in QM

> On 18 Jun 2019, at 02:14, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > The stochastic aspects of QM emerge in measurement, where the modulus square > of amplitudes are probabilities and there are these random outcomes. The > measurement of a quantum state is not a quantum process, but has stochastic > ou

determinism and randomness in QM

The stochastic aspects of QM emerge in measurement, where the modulus square of amplitudes are probabilities and there are these random outcomes. The measurement of a quantum state is not a quantum process, but has stochastic outcomes predicted by QM. Based on the Hamkin's work where I only l

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Tuesday, September 10, 2013 4:09:22 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, September 10, 2013, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, September 9, 2013 11:39:31 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: >>> >>> (Resending complete email - trying to do this on a phone.) >>> >>> On Tuesday, Septembe

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Tuesday, September 10, 2013 2:07:26 AM UTC-4, Dennis Ochei wrote: > > Craig, > I've been trying to stay focused studying the past few days (medical exam > D: ), but now im procrastinating > > So which of the following are you advancing > > No implementation of rules could ever perfectly e

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Tuesday, September 10, 2013, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Monday, September 9, 2013 11:39:31 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: >> >> (Resending complete email - trying to do this on a phone.) >> >> On Tuesday, September 10, 2013, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, September 5, 201

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

Craig, I've been trying to stay focused studying the past few days (medical exam D: ), but now im procrastinating So which of the following are you advancing No implementation of rules could ever perfectly exemplify (or at least to such a degree that no human could every tell it was a mere im

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Monday, September 9, 2013 11:39:31 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: > > (Resending complete email - trying to do this on a phone.) > > On Tuesday, September 10, 2013, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, September 5, 2013, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> My position would s

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

(Resending complete email - trying to do this on a phone.) On Tuesday, September 10, 2013, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > On Thursday, September 5, 2013, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> My position would suggest that the more mechanistic the conditions of the >> test, the more it stacks

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Thursday, September 5, 2013, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > > My position would suggest that the more mechanistic the conditions of the > test, the more it stacks the test in favor of not being able to tell the > difference. If you want to fool someone into thinking an AI is alive, get a > small

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

quantitative > are so pervasive and invasive that its going to take a miracle for people > to adjust to a different view. It's like a hardcore meth addict considering > for the first time that maybe there is a down-side to the drug. > > > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:20 PM, C

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

blah, but that's anybody's >> guess. >> >> Systems of rules are great, and they can only be better if we understand >> more about what it is that we are ruling. Or if/when they aren't great, we >> can understand that there is a whole other half of the uni

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

down-side to the drug. > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 1:46:14 PM UTC-4, Dennis Ochei wrote: >>> >>> Determinism is a logical justification of cause and effect or el

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

ractical implications? On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 1:46:14 PM UTC-4, Dennis Ochei wrote: >> >> Determinism is a logical justification of cause and effect or else it is >>> meaningless... >> >&g

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 1:46:14 PM UTC-4, Dennis Ochei wrote: > > Determinism is a logical justification of cause and effect or else it is >> meaningless... > > > Sure, whatever, I was speaking colloquially, I wasn't using it in a > technical fashion. &

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

> > Determinism is a logical justification of cause and effect or else it is > meaningless... Sure, whatever, I was speaking colloquially, I wasn't using it in a technical fashion. Nobody, including you can see how a set of rules could lead to desire mmhmm, what's yo

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

logy as justified, > Determinism is a logical justification of cause and effect or else it is meaningless. No particular determination need be justified by our expectations, but determinism in general is an expectation of a logic of causality - an airtight logic of perfect correspondence. Rat

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

also, unless we come up with a clever way of raising the cost of reneging, we wont be able to make any bets On Tuesday, September 3, 2013, Dennis Ochei wrote: > 1) rationality (logic) in this case is to mean founded on justified > principles. This is inherently a normative judgment. the principle

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

e > relevant qualifier of sensitivity is not structure but experience. Giving > your cat a computer will not make him computer literate, and dressing a > water pump up in human clothes does not cause a human. The clues are all > around us. No machine or program has every succeeded in being an

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

chine or program has every succeeded in being anything but completely impersonal and psychologically empty. > Furthermore, deterministic does not equal logical. There is no logic > behind why opposites attract, even though this logically leads to like > dissolving like. Whateve

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

Craig, What UV looks like will depend on how it is transduced into the nervous system. I could add a new opsin into your blue cones and it would appear to be a shade of blue. Or, I could achieve the transduction in such a way that UV doesn't confuse with blue. In which case UV will look different

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 3:42:53 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > On 9/3/2013 12:32 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: > > Telmo and Brent, > > > > The Humean quote sums it up nicely. You can think of a human as a > collection of desires > > and a reasoning process that arbitrates between and attempts t

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 9/3/2013 12:32 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: Telmo and Brent, The Humean quote sums it up nicely. You can think of a human as a collection of desires and a reasoning process that arbitrates between and attempts to realize them. In the process of reasoning, one might bring about new desires, but r

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

ou have no free will, then your satisfaction is meaningless >> >> >> I'm not convinced that one's satisfaction is meaningful even if free will >> exists. Why should it? This is evidence of the normative value you place in >> free will. >> >>

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

meaningful even if free will > exists. Why should it? This is evidence of the normative value you place in > free will. > > > If you assume choices rather than creativity, then you have already >> biased the framing of the question toward determinism. > > > But creativ

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

It's a sleight of hand because it assumes a single self on a single level which does the wanting and the willing and the discerning between the two. On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 6:54:46 AM UTC-4, telmo_menezes wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Dennis Ochei > > > wrote: > > this is i

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:41:09 AM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > On 9/2/2013 8:50 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: > > > No matter how complex a system is, it can never be complex enough to > contain itself, and is therefore unable to perceive itself directly as a > deterministic process. Only in t

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

gy of attachment to my position on free >> will? > > > I seems you think free will has normative and explanatory value. > Free will is an elementary scalar, from which all notions of determinism are derived in opposition. The explanatory value is to help turn the worldview righ

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

Is MWI falsifiable? On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:22:29 PM UTC-4, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > Since MWI is deterministic, and MWI has not beean falsfied... your > statement is wrong. > > Quentin > > > 2013/9/3 John Clark > > >> Determinism is not only falsi

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

value you place in free will. If you assume choices rather than creativity, then you have already biased > the framing of the question toward determinism. But creativity must at some point move my hands and feet, or articulators and resonators to make itself evident. A creative act consists

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

n absolute freedom from all constraints, it only means more freedom than determinism allows. > At night, I sleep, though I would rather stay up through the night. Though > I am not enslaved in doing these things, I am certainly not free in a > metaphysical sense. > The 'free&

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

Since MWI is deterministic, and MWI has not beean falsfied... your statement is wrong. Quentin 2013/9/3 John Clark > Determinism is not only falsifiable it has been falsified. John K Clark > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > &

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

On 9/3/2013 9:02 AM, John Clark wrote: Determinism is not only falsifiable it has been falsified. John K Clark Did you read the t'Hooft paper? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

Determinism is not only falsifiable it has been falsified.John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-lis

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

range, but I would have to re-read his arguments. Saibal Citeren meekerdb : On 9/2/2013 1:15 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: It is difficult to falsify, e.g. it is not strictly correct to say that local determinism has been falsified, as 't Hooft explains here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.1

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 9/3/2013 3:54 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: >this is in line with schopenhauer's views. he was essentially a buddhist. >you can want not to want, in which case you cannot will yourself to want to >want. you can have and act upon the desire to c

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: > this is in line with schopenhauer's views. he was essentially a buddhist. > you can want not to want, in which case you cannot will yourself to want to > want. you can have and act upon the desire to change your desires, but that > doesn't con

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

this is in line with schopenhauer's views. he was essentially a buddhist. you can want not to want, in which case you cannot will yourself to want to want. you can have and act upon the desire to change your desires, but that doesn't constitute "willing" what you want. instead, this constitutes jus

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 6:41 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 9/2/2013 8:50 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: > > > No matter how complex a system is, it can never be complex enough to contain > itself, and is therefore unable to perceive itself directly as a > deterministic process. Only in the special cases, where

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 9/2/2013 8:50 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: No matter how complex a system is, it can never be complex enough to contain itself, and is therefore unable to perceive itself directly as a deterministic process. Only in the special cases, where the major causes of its action are made apparent, such

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

ease the concentration of the chemical and dislike doing things that lower it. If the concentration exhibits noisy behavior (is not solely a function of the effectors of the system in question), then the system will even develop novel, unpredictable behavior. Desire and qualia pose no real proble

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

On 9/2/2013 1:15 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: It is difficult to falsify, e.g. it is not strictly correct to say that local determinism has been falsified, as 't Hooft explains here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.1007 Ah, yes I should have mentioned the superdeterminism option. I'

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

Hi Brent I think the researchers would agree. Its definately present stimuli they have in mind. All the best --- Original Message --- From: "meekerdb" Sent: 3 September 2013 4:11 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade On 9/2/20

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

It is difficult to falsify, e.g. it is not strictly correct to say that local determinism has been falsified, as 't Hooft explains here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.1007 Saibal Citeren Craig Weinberg : Is it scientific? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the G

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

On 9/2/2013 12:33 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/9/2 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> On 9/2/2013 11:45 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Is it scientific? As a general principle, determinism is meta-physics. I doubt that it can be strictly falsified because

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

2013/9/2 meekerdb > On 9/2/2013 11:45 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > >> Is it scientific? >> > > As a general principle, determinism is meta-physics. I doubt that it can > be strictly falsified because every possible test depends on auxiliary > hypotheses which o

Re: Is Determinism Falsifiable?

On 9/2/2013 11:45 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Is it scientific? As a general principle, determinism is meta-physics. I doubt that it can be strictly falsified because every possible test depends on auxiliary hypotheses which one might be willing to give up before declaring a general

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 9/2/2013 11:29 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, September 2, 2013 2:11:05 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 9/2/2013 7:34 AM, chris peck wrote: The study you're citing firstly claims the 60% of the variance they uncovered is explained by 'spontaneous' brain activity not 60% of all

Is Determinism Falsifiable?

Is it scientific? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everythin

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Monday, September 2, 2013 2:11:05 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > On 9/2/2013 7:34 AM, chris peck wrote: > > The study you're citing firstly claims the 60% of the variance they > uncovered is explained by 'spontaneous' brain activity not 60% of all brain > activity. More importantly, by sponta

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 9/2/2013 7:34 AM, chris peck wrote: The study you're citing firstly claims the 60% of the variance they uncovered is explained by 'spontaneous' brain activity not 60% of all brain activity. More importantly, by spontaneous they just mean brain activity that has not been triggered by external

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

Brent wrote: *Just *any* response? Doesn't the response have to be something we can identify as intelligent or purposeful?* Depends on your definition of 'intelligent or purposeful' - Oh, and of RESPONSE of course. My def. of response includes your characterisation. * Brent wrote: * So do you agr

RE: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

We have no reason to believe in telekinesis Craig nor time travel at will. Anxiety on the other hand is common. Yes? >> Instead of reaching for a supernatural explanation, determinism compulsively >> reaches for a sub-natural explanation. I don't think so. Determinism is a view p

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

"The emotional life of very many animals, including the human animal, is critical to their survival in fact." Right, although only in fact, and not under the theory of strong determinism. In strong determinism the only thing that could matter to an animal's survival is its behav

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:20:09 PM UTC-4, chris peck wrote: > > Hi Craig > * > am saying that the ontology of desire is impossible under strong > determinism. Deterministic and random processes cannot possibly produce > desire - not because desire is special, but

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 22 August 2013 15:23, chris peck wrote: > > Hi Chris / Stathis > > I probably shouldn't have used the word adaptive. > > I think Craig is arguing : > > 1) whatever 'feels'/psychological states emerge from the universe must be > compatible with its fundamental nature. > > 2) Anxiety implies that

RE: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

g would accept my paraphrase of his argument. All the best. > From: stath...@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 15:01:35 +1000 > Subject: Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com > > On 22 August 2013 13:20, chris peck wrote: > > Hi

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 22 August 2013 13:20, chris peck wrote: > Hi Craig > > > am saying that the ontology of desire is impossible under strong > determinism. Deterministic and random processes cannot possibly produce > desire - not because desire is special, but because it doesn't make any &

RE: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

m [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of chris peck Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:20 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade Hi Craig am saying that the ontology of desire is impossible under strong determinism. Deterministic a

RE: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

Hi Craig am saying that the ontology of desire is impossible under strong determinism. Deterministic and random processes cannot possibly produce desire - not because desire is special, but because it doesn't make any sense. You are talking about putting in a gas pedal on a bowling bal

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

> randomly. > > In the words of Yoda, 'there is no try, either do or do not'. > > You know that you have wants, and you conclude from this that your > brain cannot function deterministically or randomly. You make this > claim repeatedly and without justification. >

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

, legal or compatibilist sense. I doubt it in your sense, since it is not even conceptually possible. >>> How would an illusion of doubt be justified, either randomly or >>> deterministically? What function would an illusion of doubt serve, even in >>> the most blue-sky h

RE: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

ehave in more moral ways; conversely when we are led to believe that free will does not exist and that we are chatty marionettes driven by a fundamental determinism or programs outside of our control then we behave in far less moral manners. So, even if we inhabit a deterministic universe, th

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

hing is allowed to exist until we can agree on a >> precise set of terms which give it existence. I think that this expectation >> is not a neutral or innocuous position, but actually contaminates the >> debate over free will, stacking the deck unintentionally in favor of t

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

ion, but actually contaminates the debate over free will, stacking the > deck unintentionally in favor of the determinism. > It is possible to make the distinction between doing something by accident and intentionally, between enslavement and freedom, while still acknowledging that brain m

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

Synesthesia proves that data can be formatted in multiple ways, irrespective of assumed correlations. A computer proves this also. Your argument is essentially that we couldn't look at the data of an mp3 in any other way except listening to it with an ear. "You'd have realized that visual/alphanume

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

I can nothing but laugh at at a Physicist pontificating about what they call "free will" . It show how far the destruction of philosophy by metaphisical-ideological-religious reductionism has gone since Occam. Calvin would be surprised about the twists that have suffered his theory of predestinati

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 8/17/2013 10:09 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: Don't be so evasive, Brent. Being dense is how science works. It's about stripping away your assumptions. Your assumption is that somehow a sense of smell is an expected outcome of chemical detection, so I ask you to explain why you assume that. You

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Sunday, August 18, 2013 12:24:18 AM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > On 8/17/2013 8:59 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Saturday, August 17, 2013 11:14:22 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: >> >> On 8/17/2013 7:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:59:26 PM UTC-4, Brent

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 8/17/2013 8:59 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, August 17, 2013 11:14:22 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 8/17/2013 7:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:59:26 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 8/17/2013 2:01 PM, John Mikes wrote: Consciousness is

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Saturday, August 17, 2013 11:14:22 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > On 8/17/2013 7:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:59:26 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: >> >> On 8/17/2013 2:01 PM, John Mikes wrote: >> >> Consciousness is different: it is a hoax some high hatted >>

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On 8/17/2013 7:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:59:26 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 8/17/2013 2:01 PM, John Mikes wrote: Consciousness is different: it is a hoax some high hatted scientists/pholosophers invented to make themselves smart. No basis, every aut

Re: Determinism - Tricks of the Trade

On Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:59:26 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > On 8/17/2013 2:01 PM, John Mikes wrote: > > Consciousness is different: it is a hoax some high hatted > scientists/pholosophers invented to make themselves smart. No basis, every > author uses the term for a content that fits he

  1   2   >