All feedback appreciated - An introduction to Algebraic Physics

2008-04-28 Thread Brian Tenneson
I will be updating this as time progresses. All versions including the current and only version, 00-00-04 can be found here: http://www.universalsight.org/conference_abstract/ The current and only version is 00-00-04 which can be downloaded directly in pdf format here: http

Re: All feedback appreciated - An introduction to Algebraic Physics

2008-04-28 Thread Brian Tenneson
There was a flaw in version 00-00-04. Version 00-00-05 is now up at http://www.universalsight.org/conference_abstract/ and version 5 can be downloaded directly here: http://www.universalsight.org/conference_abstract/00-00-05.pdf --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-03-01 Thread Brent Meeker
Mark Peaty wrote: No Brent, what I AM saying is that they are GONE! Well and truly gorrnn! But they lasted a lot longer than we have. We could get side tracked into all sorts of discussions about how each of the civilisations you named, waxed and waned more than once

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-28 Thread Mark Peaty
: Compassion, democracy, ethics and scientific method. No civilisation can survive without all four of these. Talk about assertions without any evidence! Actually there's a lot of evidence that civilization developed and survived until recently without democracy or the scientific method

Re: [SPAM] Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countle

2007-02-28 Thread Mark Peaty
OK, tell me where all those civilisations of the past have gone to, because THEY did NOT survived. Tell me what makes YOU so sure this current global civilisation can survive. I am more than happy to be shown where I am wrong, but if you TRULY disagree with what I am saying, I would like you

Re: [SPAM] Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countle

2007-02-28 Thread Mark Peaty
must call a spade a spade; all this guff that gets called 'theology' and 'spirituality' is ultimately a bunch of assertions that can neither be proved nor disproved in any concrete sense because they are all expressions of belief and ONLY belief. Because there is no way of relating these holy

Re: [SPAM] Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countle

2007-02-28 Thread Brent Meeker
Torgny Tholerus wrote: Mark Peaty skrev: However, we must call a spade a spade; all this guff that gets called 'theology' and 'spirituality' is ultimately a bunch of assertions that can neither be proved nor disproved in any concrete sense because they are all expressions of belief

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-28 Thread Brent Meeker
fundamental ingredients of civilisation: Compassion, democracy, ethics and scientific method. No civilisation can survive without all four of these. Talk about assertions without any evidence! Actually there's a lot of evidence that civilization developed and survived until

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-27 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
[EMAIL PROTECTED], I rarely pass up an opportunity for religious debate, but I am honestly overwhelmed by your recent posts. I hope you have not done all this work just to be relegated to the list archive. How did you find us, anyway? Stathis Papaioannou

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-26 Thread Klortho
The other thing I do is check to what extent a person's speech and writings support and affirm the four fundamental ingredients of civilisation: Compassion, democracy, ethics and scientific method. No civilisation can survive without all four of these. Talk about assertions without any

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-26 Thread Brent Meeker
Klortho wrote: The other thing I do is check to what extent a person's speech and writings support and affirm the four fundamental ingredients of civilisation: Compassion, democracy, ethics and scientific method. No civilisation can survive without all four of these. Talk about

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-26 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Feb 25, 2:06 am, Brent Meeker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-26 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
that He is concealed from direct perception because of the intensity of His Self-manifestation. However, the great influence of positivist and materialist schools of thought on science and on all people of recent centuries makes it necessary to discuss such arguments. As this now-prevalent

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-26 Thread Brent Meeker
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jesus said: I and the Father are one (Jn.10:30), therefore, is not Jesus the same, or, co-equal in status with his Father? Answer No.1 In Greek, `heis' means `one' numerically (masc.) `hen' means `one' in unity or essence (neut.) Here the word used by John is `hen'

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-26 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
But how do you know that the Qu'ran is actually the word of God? People claim all sorts of things, and while it's often easy to prove that they *claimed* these things (although as you rightly point out, with many religions, such as Christianity, even this is not a given), the point is to prove

Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute evi

2007-02-24 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute evidences of Destiny, it may be sufficient to make some introductory remarks to demonstrate how

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-24 Thread Brent Meeker
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute evidences of Destiny, it may be sufficient to make some introductory

Re: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute

2007-02-24 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 2/25/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Believing in Divine Destiny is one of the pillars of faith, and, in accordance with this belief, everything in the universe is determined by God, the All-Mighty. While there are countless absolute evidences of Destiny, it may be sufficient

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2007-01-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 11-janv.-07, à 15:15, Russell Standish a écrit : I would further hypothesise that all intelligences must arise evolutionarily. I do believe this too, but once an intelligence is there it can be copied in short time. Dishonest people do that with ideas, publishers do that with writtings

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2007-01-17 Thread Russell Standish
worlds emerge from *all* computations making all apparent (and thus sufficiently complex) world not turing emulable. Recall that I am a machine entails the apparent universe cannot be a machine (= cannot be turing-emulable (cf UDA(***)). Bruno I appreciate your result, that I am machine

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-13 Thread William
proposition is that we live in 1; since 2 does exist but is less probable than 1. information in 1 = inf(A) information in 2 = inf(simulation_A) + inf(SAS) + inf(possible other stuff) = inf(A) + inf(SAS) + inf(possible other stuff) inf(A) You're still missing the point. If you sum over all

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-13 Thread Russell Standish
? By higher I gather you mean more complex. But I think you are implicitly assuming that a more complex universe is needed to simulate this one, which I think is wrong. All that is needed is Turing completeness, which even very simple universes have (for instance Conway's Game of Life). Cheers

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
, strictly speaking even the notion of one universe (even considered among other universes or in a multiverse à-la Deutsch) does not make sense unless the comp substitution level is *very* low. Stable appearances of local worlds emerge from *all* computations making all apparent (and thus sufficiently

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-12 Thread Russell Standish
but is less probable than 1. information in 1 = inf(A) information in 2 = inf(simulation_A) + inf(SAS) + inf(possible other stuff) = inf(A) + inf(SAS) + inf(possible other stuff) inf(A) You're still missing the point. If you sum over all SASes and other computing devices capable

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-12 Thread Brent Meeker
2 does exist but is less probable than 1. information in 1 = inf(A) information in 2 = inf(simulation_A) + inf(SAS) + inf(possible other stuff) = inf(A) + inf(SAS) + inf(possible other stuff) inf(A) You're still missing the point. If you sum over all SASes and other computing devices

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-12 Thread Russell Standish
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 08:54:51AM -0800, Brent Meeker wrote: You're still missing the point. If you sum over all SASes and other computing devices capable of simulating universe A, the probability of being in a simulation of A is identical to simply being in universe

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-12 Thread Brent Meeker
Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 08:54:51AM -0800, Brent Meeker wrote: You're still missing the point. If you sum over all SASes and other computing devices capable of simulating universe A, the probability of being in a simulation of A is identical to simply being in universe

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-12 Thread Russell Standish
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 02:07:28PM -0800, Brent Meeker wrote: Of course this point is moot if the universe is not simulable! Or if the length of the code has nothing to do with it's probability. Brent Meeker No, because that assumption (Solomonoff-Levin style probability and its

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-11 Thread Russell Standish
works at all. I am referring to a perfect simulation by higher hand. The universe where this simulation is taking place would both have all the information of our universe (same amount of information) + the information to describe the simulators (higher hand); which would be more than

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-11 Thread Lonoent7
In a message dated 12/11/2006 3:35:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group,

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-11 Thread Lonoent7
In a message dated 12/11/2006 3:17:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group,

Re: Hello all - My Theory of Everything

2006-12-11 Thread William
If the universe is computationallu simulable, then any universal Turing machine will do for a higher hand. In which case, the information needed is simply the shortest possible program for simulating the universe, the length of which by definition is the information content of the universe.

Re: Time, Causality and all that

2006-10-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 21-oct.-06, à 21:52, Charles Goodwin a écrit : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter D Jones The problem is not that there are no such resemblances in a Multiverse, it is that ther are far too many. How does one distinguishing real ones from coincidental ones. How does a

Re: Time, Causality and all that

2006-10-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 21-oct.-06, à 21:52, Charles Goodwin wrote : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter D Jones The problem is not that there are no such resemblances in a Multiverse, it is that ther are far too many. How does one distinguishing real ones from coincidental ones. How does a

Re: Time, Causality and all that

2006-10-22 Thread 1Z
Bruno Marchal wrote: Le 21-oct.-06, à 21:52, Charles Goodwin a écrit : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter D Jones The problem is not that there are no such resemblances in a Multiverse, it is that ther are far too many. How does one distinguishing real ones from

Re: My All Nothing model compacted, was: Re: Summary of seed ideas ...

2005-09-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
to solve the measure problem, and so one. There are three levels of existence in the model: 1) The list of all possible aspects of objects and ideas [and its representative one to one correspondence with the natural numbers]. In our context all those terms have no obvious interpretation. What

Re: My All Nothing model compacted, was: Re: Summary of seed ideas ...

2005-09-23 Thread John M
Hi, Hal and Bruno, the T is my problem as well (I swalloed it) because ALL (pardon the pun) we may know is within the feeble capabilities of our little minds and I have no right to assume that 'nature' does not include much more than this little segment. This is why I call whatever I find out

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2005-09-20 Thread Hal Ruhl
is infinite and countable and its line items representable by finite bit strings then my starting point is just the natural numbers [including zero] along with an assignment of meaning to each. As I understand it the cardinality of the set of subsets of the natural numbers [i.e. the All and its

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2005-09-20 Thread Hal Ruhl
My analysis continued: Self awareness and consciousness: If the All is just the set of reals with an assigned meaning for each then undoubtedly some of these meanings would be kernels that contain sub kernels describing Self Aware Structures [SAS]. Given the random nature of the dynamic I

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2005-09-19 Thread Hal Ruhl
I have attached a revision to my model at (9) which makes the driver for the evolution of the Somethings more explicit. Definitions: The list of all possibilities: The list of all the possible properties and aspects of things. This list can not be empty since there is unlikely to be less

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-09-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Sep 2005, at 00:40, Stephen Paul King wrote:   Does it truly make sense to assume that Existence can have a Beginning? We are not talking here, I AFAIK, about the beginning of our observed universe as we can wind our way back in history to a Big Bang Event Horizon, but this event itself must

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-09-01 Thread kurtleegod
it all begin? Hi Godfrey, Thanks for the ID. Now I know that Godfrey is one of the mind-stretchers on this list. I hope that Saibal will eventually tell us the reason(s) for Dishonorable Mention. I read Tegmark's paper too, where he seems to attribute the beginning of It to Inflation

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-09-01 Thread Saibal Mitra
: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 12:57 AM Subject: Re: How did it all begin? This is a teaser. Why did Tegmark's paper receive Dishonorable Mention? Who is Godfrey? - Original Message - From: Saibal Mitra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 30

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-08-31 Thread John M
model shows it from classical physics through QM - QED to even postQ visions. The universe evolved non-linearly (some like still to use the word: 'chaotically') so a retrograde linearity is at best misconstrued. Then it was assumed that all the 'physical laws' of our presently observed model were

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-08-31 Thread kurtleegod
PROTECTED] Cc: everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:57:54 -0700 Subject: Re: How did it all begin? This is a teaser. Why did Tegmark's paper receive Dishonorable Mention? Who is Godfrey? - Original Message - From: Saibal Mitra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything everything-list

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-08-31 Thread Norman Samish
~~ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: Re: How did it all begin? Hi Saibal, Norman I did not mean to intervene but so that my name is not called

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-08-31 Thread Stephen Paul King
, is not worth reading if only because they misdirect thoughts more than they inform thoughts. Onward! Stephen - Original Message - From: Norman Samish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:19 PM Subject: Re: How did it all begin? Hi Godfrey

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-08-31 Thread Norman Samish
PROTECTED] To: everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: Re: How did it all begin? Dear Friends, Does it truly make sense to assume that Existence can have a Beginning? We are not talking here, I AFAIK, about the beginning of our observed universe as we can wind our

How did it all begin?

2005-08-30 Thread Saibal Mitra
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0508429 Tegmark's essay was not well received (perhaps Godfrey didn't like it? :-) ) How did it all begin? Authors: Max Tegmark Comments: 6 pages, 6 figs, essay for 2005 Young Scholars Competition in honor of Charles Townes; received Dishonorable Mention How did

Re: How did it all begin?

2005-08-30 Thread Norman Samish
This is a teaser. Why did Tegmark's paper receive Dishonorable Mention? Who is Godfrey? - Original Message - From: Saibal Mitra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:14 AM Subject: How did it all begin? http://arxiv.org/abs/astro

Re: Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-27 Thread jamikes
restricted to our views? (and I mean it broader than just numbers). Best regards John Mikes - Original Message - From: Brent Meeker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Everything-List everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:54 PM Subject: RE: Have all possible events occurred

Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-26 Thread Norman Samish
possible exists, does this not mean that there exists a universe like ours, only as it will appear 10^100 years in our future? And that there also exists a universe like ours, only as it appeared 10^9 years in the past? And that, in all worlds, all possible events have occurred? Norman

Re: Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-26 Thread rmiller
one person at a time. There are numerous psychological models---neodissociationism being just one---that posit a personality made up of multiple modules, all interacting (somewhat) under the guidance of an executive, Hilgard's hidden observer. Unless and until we fully understand how

RE: Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-26 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
that everything possible exists, does this not mean that there exists a universe like ours, only as it will appear 10^100 years in our future? And that there also exists a universe like ours, only as it appeared 10^9 years in the past? And that, in all worlds, all possible events have occurred

Re: Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-26 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
. There are numerous psychological models---neodissociationism being just one---that posit a personality made up of multiple modules, all interacting (somewhat) under the guidance of an executive, Hilgard's hidden observer. Unless and until we fully understand how consciousness is linked

Re: Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-26 Thread Norman Samish
writes: Spacetime could be infinite without everything possible existing. It might even depend on how you define possible. Are all real numbers possible? Norman Samish writes: Brent, to me this is cryptic. Can you enlarge on what you mean? Your statement seems to contradict what I've read, more

Re: Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-26 Thread rmiller
that we experience being one person at a time. There are numerous psychological models---neodissociationism being just one---that posit a personality made up of multiple modules, all interacting (somewhat) under the guidance of an executive, Hilgard's hidden observer. Unless and until we fully

Re: Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-26 Thread Norman Samish
! There's got to be another answer to the questions that the dual-state cat resolves. Norman - Original Message - From: Stephen Paul King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: everything-list@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:06 AM Subject: Re: Have all possible events occurred? Dear Norman

RE: Have all possible events occurred?

2005-06-26 Thread Brent Meeker
-Original Message- From: Norman Samish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:33 AM To: everything-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Have all possible events occurred? Norman Samish writes: Stathis, when you say if you believe that everything possible exists are you

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-26 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Hal, About this zero information feature, could it be due to a strict communitivity between any given subset of the All/Nothing? I ask this because it seems to me that the information content of any string follows from the existence of a difference between one ordering of the bits

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-26 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Stephen: Since the Nothing has no information by definition and the boundary between them - the Everything - has no potential to divide further [i.e. no information] then the All must have no information if the system has no information. I do not think the latter part is controversial

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-26 Thread Hal Ruhl
it or not) but now I wonder: Is Everything part of All, or All part of Everything? Then again it should be that Nothing is part of Everything, maybe not necessarily of All. You cannot say that everything except the nothing, but nothing cannot be part of All: it is per definitionem the entirety

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-22 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Jesse: I think some confusion took place surrounding the posts on or about 12/10. In my initial post I said: xx 9) Notice that the All also has a logical problem. Looking at the same meaningful question of its own stability it contains all possible answers because just one would

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-20 Thread Jesse Mazer
to avoid logical contradictions. I'm just saying that if you look at the facts of each world/kernel and translate these facts into propositions like all ducks have beaks (within this particular world/kernel), then you will find that no proposition or collection of propositions about a single world

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-20 Thread Jesse Mazer
, it is also true that X is true, even if no one notices this.' how can an unnoticed truth be included into noticed (mutual) truth? * Time. I tackle a timeless (atemporal) system. The problem is change. What does a timeless change mean? One has to eliminate 'sequence', the result of a change, or: Hal's All

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-20 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Jesse: I do not think the conversation re: I can't think of any historical examples of new mathematical/scientific/philosophical ideas that require you to already believe their premises in order to justify these premises, has a valid place in this thread. Can you tell me why you do? Hal

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-20 Thread Jesse Mazer
concepts we might have, then I suppose there is no further need to discuss this question. I still have the feeling that this is not quite the case though, since you are asking for comments/critiques of your theory, but what possible basis could comments/critiques have unless you believed we all had

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-19 Thread John M
that X is true, even if no one notices this.' how can an unnoticed truth be included into noticed (mutual) truth? * Time. I tackle a timeless (atemporal) system. The problem is change. What does a timeless change mean? One has to eliminate 'sequence', the result of a change, or: Hal's All is static

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-19 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Bruno and Jesse: At 10:23 AM 12/18/2004, you wrote: At 21:48 17/12/04 -0500, Hal Ruhl wrote: Can a kernel of information be self inconsistent? From Bruno's last post I think it is possible to impose this idea on the All. I'm afraid I said the contrary (unless I misunderstand what you

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-18 Thread Jesse Mazer
statements about your theory as a whole like the information re the Nothing is in the All so they are infinitely nested you are assuming that the negation of these statements (in this case, 'the information re the Nothing is not in the All so they are not infinitely nested') is false. Should we

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
At 21:48 17/12/04 -0500, Hal Ruhl wrote: Can a kernel of information be self inconsistent? From Bruno's last post I think it is possible to impose this idea on the All. I'm afraid I said the contrary (unless I misunderstand what you are pointing at through the expression kernel of information

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
. Indeed, it needs a universal machine, and even an infinity of them. But all that exists and describes by the set of (sigma1) true arithmetical propositions. See Podniek's page http://www.ltn.lv/~podnieks/gt.html So my question is, what do you mean when you say a universe that has a sequence

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
At 03:31 18/12/04 -0500, Jesse Mazer wrote: I don't think Bruno's last post was really implying that everything would be inconsistent, I thought his point was more that you can't consider things like the collection of all possible sets to itself be a set. Exactly. It is the machine which gives

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-18 Thread Hal Ruhl
the information re the Nothing is in the All so they are infinitely nested you are assuming that the negation of these statements (in this case, 'the information re the Nothing is not in the All so they are not infinitely nested') is false. See below Should we have the hubris to impose this somewhat

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-18 Thread Hal Ruhl
for that convention is not contained in the string itself. 'Taking' a Something as a bitstring involves some degree of external convention. One could argue that the rules for decoding a string are in the string itself. So a given string would represent all structures that are such a parsing

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-18 Thread Jesse Mazer
for two contradictory statements about the state of a single cell at a single moment in a single world to *both* be true? Should we have the hubris to impose this somewhat questioned concept on all other universes? In my view the states of all universes preexist in the All [as some of the kernels

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-17 Thread Hal Ruhl
of revealing it. The question I raise is the implicit inclusion of time in this process. Should we have the hubris to impose this somewhat questioned concept on all other universes? In my view the states of all universes preexist in the All [as some of the kernels] and Physical Reality washes over them

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-17 Thread Pete Carlton
: snip My interest was to have a dynamic which did not impose any residual information on the All. My current view is that each state of that dynamic has to be completely independent of the current state. The way I describe this is to say that the dynamic is inconsistent. It helps this idea

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-13 Thread Bruno Marchal
of all true statements about arithmetic would be both complete and consistent, so if you allow non-computable sets of axioms you could just have every true statement about arithmetic be an axiom. Yes indeed. Most books give different definition of axiomatic and recursively enumerable

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-13 Thread Hal Ruhl
class of first order logical theories (like Peano Arithmetics, Zermelo Fraenkel Set theory, etc.) the completeness theorem of Godel (note: the completeness, not the incompleteness one!) gives that being consistent is equivalent with having a model. The All contains all information

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-13 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Jesse: I will go over the thread and try to clear things up but I am having eye surgery in the morning and ran out of time. Why would mathematics be the only thing in the All? Is that not a selection? At 07:38 PM 12/13/2004, you wrote: It is controversial that mathematics contains any

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-12 Thread Hal Ruhl
At 07:28 PM 12/11/2004, you wrote: Hal Ruhl wrote: You wrote: Well, what I get from your answer is that you're justifying the idea that the All is inconsistent in terms of your own concept of evolving Somethings, not in terms of inconsistent axiomatic systems. Just the reverse. The evolving

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-12 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Jesse: At 04:46 PM 12/12/2004, you wrote: Hal Ruhl wrote: OK, since I don't really understand your system I should have said something more general, like you're justifying the idea that the All is inconsistent in terms of your own theoretical framework, not in terms of inconsistent

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-12 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Jesse: At 09:35 PM 12/12/2004, you wrote: Hal Ruhl: Hi Jesse: At 04:46 PM 12/12/2004, you wrote: Hal Ruhl wrote: OK, since I don't really understand your system I should have said something more general, like you're justifying the idea that the All is inconsistent in terms of your own

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-12 Thread Jesse Mazer
Hal Ruhl wrote: OK, since I don't really understand your system I should have said something more general, like you're justifying the idea that the All is inconsistent in terms of your own theoretical framework, not in terms of inconsistent axiomatic systems. Do you grant that the All which

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-12 Thread Jesse Mazer
Hal Ruhl: Hi Jesse: At 04:46 PM 12/12/2004, you wrote: Hal Ruhl wrote: OK, since I don't really understand your system I should have said something more general, like you're justifying the idea that the All is inconsistent in terms of your own theoretical framework, not in terms

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-11 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Jesse You wrote: Well, what I get from your answer is that you're justifying the idea that the All is inconsistent in terms of your own concept of evolving Somethings, not in terms of inconsistent axiomatic systems. Just the reverse. The evolving Somethings inevitably encompass

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-11 Thread Norman Samish
Hal, With reference to your inconsistent TOE model (which I do not claim to understand), you state My approach solves these issues for ME . . . You also state All universes over and over is in my belief system more satisfying and may be able to put some handle on ideas such as self aware

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-11 Thread Hal Ruhl
to your inconsistent TOE model (which I do not claim to understand), you state My approach solves these issues for ME . . . You also state All universes over and over is in my belief system more satisfying and may be able to put some handle on ideas such as self aware and free will etc. at least

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-11 Thread Jesse Mazer
Hal Ruhl wrote: You wrote: Well, what I get from your answer is that you're justifying the idea that the All is inconsistent in terms of your own concept of evolving Somethings, not in terms of inconsistent axiomatic systems. Just the reverse. The evolving Somethings inevitably encompass

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-10 Thread Hal Ruhl
of both erected by the unavoidable definition and has no further ability to divide so it has no information. Thus the All must have no net internal information. Neither the All nor the Nothing can stand alone because they are a definitional pair and their simultaneity allows the boundary

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-10 Thread Jesse Mazer
Hal Ruhl wrote: A kernel of information is the that information constituting a particular potential to divide. The All contains all such kernels. The All is internally inconsistent because it contains for example a complete axiomatized arithmetic as well as an infinity of other such kernels

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-10 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Jesse: Meaning can not be assigned as an inherent component of the All. That would be a selection. Meaning can only be assigned if at all within the wave of physical reality associated with an evolving Something. Evolving Somethings will eventually encompass pairs of counterfactual

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-08 Thread Bruno Marchal
(with a little a) for an axiomatizable presentation of arithmetic, and Arithmetic for the set of sentence true in the standard model of arithmetic. We have reached too many levels of nesting. I have been of on my own excavations. Is not all true arithmetical sentences a part of comp? Comp

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-08 Thread Bruno Marchal
At 16:29 08/12/04 +0100, I wrote: Before axiomatic set theories like Zermelo-Fraenkel, ... Cantor called the collection of all sets the Inconsistent. But this does make sense for me. Only a theory, or a machine, or a person can be inconsistent, not a set, or a realm, or a model. Read instead

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-07 Thread Bruno Marchal
psychology/computer science. Your responses made my point I think. It is this issue I struggle with. I seek a TOE that has no net information. Though its components individually may have any amount of information the sum of all the information in all the components is no information. Why

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-07 Thread Hal Ruhl
then eventually physics is derivable from machine psychology/computer science. I have almost no current opposition to this. It sounds to me that it is in the All with my adder of a random input to the machine. Your responses made my point I think. It is this issue I struggle with. I seek a TOE

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-07 Thread Hal Ruhl
At 06:37 PM 12/7/2004, you wrote: To clarify - the All contains all information simultaneously [see the definition in the original post] - including ALL Truing machines with ALL possible output tapes - so it contains simultaneously both output tapes re your comment below. But if there is a fact

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-07 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Jesse: At 09:23 PM 12/7/2004, you wrote: Hal Ruhl wrote: To clarify - the All contains all information simultaneously [see the definition in the original post] - including ALL Truing machines with ALL possible output tapes - so it contains simultaneously both output tapes re your comment

Re: An All/Nothing multiverse model

2004-12-07 Thread Hal Ruhl
Maybe this will help: The All contains all possible output states of all Turing machines [among all manner of other info such as states of really messy universes] simultaneously. These states are given Physical reality by evolving Somethings in random order over and over. Some such sequences

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