Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

> On 23 Sep 2019, at 19:41, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 8:43:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Sep 2019, at 01:25, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > > > wrote: > > > > Consciousness being algorimthic or Mechanism? and what notion of truth

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 8:43:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > On 20 Sep 2019, at 01:25, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > > > Consciousness being algorimthic or Mechanism? and what notion of truth > does it rely on? (not the

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

er discuss here of human problem, we just try to figure out what is happening here and now, and why … Bruno > > > -Original Message- > From: Bruno Marchal > To: everything-list > Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2019 9:19 am > Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

> On 20 Sep 2019, at 01:25, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 9/19/2019 6:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Consciousness cannot be algorithmic if Mechanism is true, because it relies >> on the notion of truth, which is not just not algorithmic, but is not even >>

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

At this point, I'd settle for mere intelligence that helps solve human problems as opposed to the "hard" Chalmers Question.  -Original Message- From: Bruno Marchal To: everything-list Sent: Thu, Sep 19, 2019 9:19 am Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On 9/19/2019 6:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Consciousness cannot be algorithmic if Mechanism is true, because it relies on the notion of truth, which is not just not algorithmic, but is not even definable. What does "it" refer to?  Consciousness being algorimthic or Mechanism?  and what

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:55 PM John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:10 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > >>I think the guy is a bit of an idiot. He starts off badly by equating >>> intelligence and consciousness and then it gets worse when he defines the >>> personal pronoun "I" by what

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

t important, but it is crucial for handling the mind-body problem when we assume mechanism. Bruno > > > -Original Message- > From: John Clark > To: everything-list > Sent: Tue, Sep 17, 2019 3:55 pm > Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic > > On

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:10 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >>I think the guy is a bit of an idiot. He starts off badly by equating >>intelligence and consciousness and then it gets worse when he  defines the >>personal pronoun "

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:10 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >>I think the guy is a bit of an idiot. He starts off badly by equating >> intelligence and consciousness and then it gets worse when he defines the >> personal pronoun "I" by what will happen in the future rather than what >> actually

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On 9/17/2019 12:25 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: @Brent, is the other way around: consciousness is ontological since it exists, and the physical world is epistemic since is only a model. Every model has it's own ontology and it's own epistemology, a theory of how you know

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

> On 15 Sep 2019, at 23:20, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 03:17, John Clark > wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 3:24 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > I really couldn't follow this paper - many worlds

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

> On 15 Sep 2019, at 19:16, John Clark wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 3:24 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > I really couldn't follow this paper - many worlds (of QM) vs. multiverse > > (of cosmology) seemed all mixed up. > > I think the guy is a bit of an

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

> On 15 Sep 2019, at 13:39, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > The reason is much simpler: "Physics" is just an idea in consciousness. This makes sense with mechanism. Even constructive sense. Physics is in the head of the universal machine, so let us test Mechanism (and its

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 7:57:20 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > Sure, but that inter-personal phenomenon derives from the workings of > consciousness which remains the nature of reality. You don't create > consciousness out of computations, you create computations out of >

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

> On 14 Sep 2019, at 04:45, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > This should be of interest to the list: > > Refuting Strong AI: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic > Andrew Knight > (Submitted on 11 Jun 2019) > While physicalism requires only tha

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

> On 14 Sep 2019, at 04:45, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > This should be of interest to the list: > > Refuting Strong AI: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic > Andrew Knight > (Submitted on 11 Jun 2019) > While physicalism requires only tha

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

Sure, but that inter-personal phenomenon derives from the workings of consciousness which remains the nature of reality. You don't create consciousness out of computations, you create computations out of consciousness. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, at 07:24, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > @telmo, same species means same type of consciousness. "Species" is mostly a convention for creating taxonomies of organisms. In school we learn that organisms belong to the same species if they can mate and produce

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

s >> particularly obvious to me given that I have never even met you in person. >> You could be an algorithm running in silicon, as far as I am concerned. >> >> Telmo. >> >>> >>> On Sunday, 15 September 2019 23:28:11 UTC+3, spudb...@aol.

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

@Brent, is the other way around: consciousness is ontological since it exists, and the physical world is epistemic since is only a model. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

@telmo, same species means same type of consciousness. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

Everything List To: Everything List Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2019 7:39 am Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic The reason is much simpler: "Physics" is just an idea in consciousness. -- You received this message because you are subscribed

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 12:57, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 12:51, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: >> But is trivial that there is interpersonal communication given the fact that >> we are from the same species. > > Isn't "species" just an idea in

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 12:51, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > But is trivial that there is interpersonal communication given the fact that > we are from the same species. Isn't "species" just an idea in consciousness? I'm trying to score a joke at your expense, I really don't

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

But is trivial that there is interpersonal communication given the fact that we are from the same species. On Monday, 16 September 2019 15:09:20 UTC+3, telmo wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 11:49, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. >

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 7:49 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > *"Brain" is just an idea in consciousness.* > And "consciousness" is just the way data feels when it is being processed. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 11:49, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. Perhaps. But so what? Do you agree or not that there is interpersonal communication going on? If you do agree, then how do you explain the common ground between your

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

"Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

erything List >> To: Everything List >> Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2019 7:39 am >> Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic >> >> >> The reason is much simpler: "Physics" is just an idea in consciousness. >> >> >> -- >>

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

List > > Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2019 7:39 am > Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic > > The reason is much simpler: "Physics" is just an idea in consciousness. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 03:17, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 3:24 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> I really couldn't follow this paper - many worlds (of QM) vs. >> multiverse (of cosmology) seemed all mixed up.* >> > > I think the guy is a bit of an idiot. He starts off badly by

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

You mean human consciousness or something bigger?  -Original Message- From: 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List To: Everything List Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2019 7:39 am Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic The reason is much simpler: "Physics" is ju

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

019 1:39 am Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic In Sabine Hossenfelder's post on Sean Carroll's Many Worlds book http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2019/09/book-review-something-deeply-hidden-by.html someone raised conscious beings: Martien  9:05 AM, September 12, 2019 One of the a

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 3:24 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> I really couldn't follow this paper - many worlds (of QM) vs. multiverse > (of cosmology) seemed all mixed up.* > I think the guy is a bit of an idiot. He starts off badly by equating intelligence and consciousness and then it gets worse

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

The reason is much simpler: "Physics" is just an idea in consciousness. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

QM) vs. multiverse >> (of cosmology) seemed all mixed up. >> > > The author essentially disagrees with the idea that a person can be > copied, whatever the mechanism. > > On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 9:45:10 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>> >>> This s

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

y, September 13, 2019 at 9:45:10 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> This should be of interest to the list: >> >> Refuting Strong AI: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic >> Andrew Knight >> (Submitted on 11 Jun 2019) >> While physicalism requires only th

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

I really couldn't follow this paper - many worlds (of QM) vs. multiverse (of cosmology) seemed all mixed up. @philipthrift On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 9:45:10 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > This should be of interest to the list: > > Refuting Strong AI: Why Consciou

Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 at 12:45, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > This should be of interest to the list: > > Refuting Strong AI: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic > Andrew Knight > (Submitted on 11 Jun 2019) > While p

Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic

This should be of interest to the list: Refuting Strong AI: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic Andrew Knight (Submitted on 11 Jun 2019) While physicalism requires only that a conscious state depends entirely on an underlying physical state, it is often assumed that consciousness