Andrew Stiller wrote:
>
>My concern is with revivals of classic musicals (the only ones worth
>attending, in my recent experience) which were written for full
>string sections that are just not to be heard on Broadway anymore. I
>went to see _On the Town_ when it was revived a while back, and was
>
- Original Message -
From: David W. Fenton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] TAN Blessing or Curse in disguise?
> On 5 Mar 2003 at 22:30, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
>
> > - Origina
At 7:46 PM -0500 3/05/03, Darcy James Argue wrote:
I can relate to the visceral feeling of abuse Andrew reports -- over
the holidays, back in Vancouver my parents took me to a
much-acclaimed local production of West Side Story.
(snip)
Trying to reproduce all the parts on two synthesizers was the
On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, at 04:54 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
My concern is with revivals of classic musicals (the only ones worth
attending, in my recent experience) which were written for full string
sections that are just not to be heard on Broadway anymore. I went to
see _On the Town_ wh
On 5 Mar 2003 at 22:30, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: David W. Fenton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 8:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Finale] TAN Blessing or Curse in disguise?
> > On
On 5 Mar 2003 at 16:07, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> At 01:40 PM 3/5/03 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
[]
> >My basic objection is that a composer controlling a MIDI performance
> >with the latest controllers, and using the finest envelopes for the
> >instrumental sounds, is still only a singl
I heard an interview with a Broadway producer who said that since the
orchestra is amplified anyway, it's not a far step to use an amplified MIDI
performance.
I realize that the logistics of modern Broadway shows are what they are, ...
Tim
My concern is with revivals of classic musicals (the onl
To all,
There has been enough from me on this topic, that's for sure! I've
collapsed David's last three emails into one response. Then I'll leave the
topic behind -- unless you're all just too enthralled!
Dennis
At 01:40 PM 3/5/03 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>But do the new controllers allow
> are means (electronic, mind you) to reproduce that sound. A single
> performance, frozen in time, is as unnatural in its way as electronic
> representations through midi.
>
>
>
> --
> David H. Bailey
We are talking about art. Art is unnatural. Of course. That's part of its
definition. It is unn
- Original Message -
From: David W. Fenton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] TAN Blessing or Curse in disguise?
> On 5 Mar 2003 at 10:46, Tim Thompson wrote:
>
> > No matter what you do with
On 5 Mar 2003 at 10:48, Andrew Stiller wrote:
> >> Hogwash! Organs as large as any ever built were in existence by
> >> 1425--two centuries before the orchestra was even thought of.
> >
> >This statement is a bit of hyperbole; what would have been a very
> >large organ in
> >1425 would have bee
On 5 Mar 2003 at 10:46, Tim Thompson wrote:
> No matter what you do with a MIDI performance, the sounds are still
> electronically produced, and most importantly, must be electronically
> amplified through some sort of speaker system to be heard.
I'm not so certain about that. The room can greatl
On 4 Mar 2003 at 22:29, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> At 07:55 PM 3/4/03 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >But Dennis's argument seems to be that, for his music, at least,
> >there really is only one correct reading, and all others are mis-
> >readings, and that for lots of other music, there are
Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Tim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The other point is that I, too, would always rather have a
not perfect live acoustic performance of music that was composed to be
heard
that way, and believe that the music is much less valuable with
On 4 Mar 2003 at 22:25, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> At 07:17 PM 3/4/03 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
> >It interests me a great deal how antithetical to Cage's philosophy
> >your comments truly are. You seem not to delight in fortuitous
> >"mutations" of your compositional efforts. That is, of
On 4 Mar 2003 at 21:56, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> At 12:47 AM 3/5/03 +0100, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
> >I assert that Midi in its perfection is in effect an AD/DA processor with a
> >sampling rate of infinity. Anything less than that is watered down
> >compositional intent. So if you tell
- Original Message -
From: Tim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The other point is that I, too, would always rather have a
> not perfect live acoustic performance of music that was composed to be
heard
> that way, and believe that the music is much less valuable without the
> dimension of pe
Andrew:
Hogwash! Organs as large as any ever built were in existence by
1425--two centuries before the orchestra was even thought of.
This statement is a bit of hyperbole; what would have been a very
large organ in
1425 would have been considered to be a modest size in 1725, and would be
consid
Dennis, et al.,
I have to admit to only scanning through posts on this discussion, but I
want to weigh in with a point that I believe has been amplified by the
situation in NYC.
No matter what you do with a MIDI performance, the sounds are still
electronically produced, and most importantly, mus
On Tue, 4 Mar 2003 23:52:54 +0100, you wrote:
> Organs as large as any ever built were in existence by
>> 1425
Andrew -
While in principle I agree with your statement, the above is simply
untrue, and off by a few hundred years. Such statements weaken an
otherwise reasonable arguement.
Ke
At 07:55 PM 3/4/03 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>But Dennis's argument seems to be that, for his music, at least,
>there really is only one correct reading, and all others are mis-
>readings, and that for lots of other music, there are only a small
>number of appropriate readings, and any perfor
At 07:27 PM 3/4/03 -0500, Christopher BJ Smith wrote:
>You almost had me convinced,
Darn. :)
Dennis
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At 07:17 PM 3/4/03 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote:
>It interests me a great deal how antithetical to Cage's philosophy
>your comments truly are. You seem not to delight in fortuitous
>"mutations" of your compositional efforts. That is, of course, your
>right, but it seems rather arrogant
I don't
At 12:47 AM 3/5/03 +0100, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
>What I meant is that we are free to play, let's say the rubato, in one way
>when we are happy and in another way when we are sad. In one way when we are
>young and in another way when we are mature. In one way at time of war and
>in another wa
on 3/4/03 4:15 PM, Andrew Stiller at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> For a little context, take a look at all the dismay expressed over
> the technology of the 1920s (Ives's "phonographs and gasoline") by
> lots of intellectuals back then who should have known better. Or all
> the tooth-gnashing forty
At 3:03 PM -0500 3/04/03, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
At 07:42 PM 3/4/03 +0100, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
If we compose for 'perfect' MIDI to perform, we are then not
composing for humans.
Your "we" doesn't speak for me. When it's needed, I compose the work
*through to its performance*, and wher
On 5 Mar 2003 at 0:47, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
> What I meant is that we are free to play, let's say the rubato, in one way
> when we are happy and in another way when we are sad. In one way when we are
> young and in another way when we are mature. In one way at time of war and
> in another
On 4 Mar 2003 at 15:03, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> The "original sound" is in the gossamer mind-ear of the composer. How that
> works itself out through successive perturbations by editing and re-scoring
> and instrument quality and performer skill and performer interpretation and
> hall acoust
> >Then we can do with these works
> >what we want, since they are ours to enjoy.
>
> That's the first convincing argument *for* the new copyright law
extensions
> -- keepin' yer doggone hands off'n 'em! :)
What I meant is that we are free to play, let's say the rubato, in one way
when we are happ
on 3/4/03 11:42 AM, Robert Patterson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think we are in a decades-long cultural trend of fascination with
technology. My personal view is that the fascination is misplaced.
Perhaps for
me, familiarity breeds contempt. But if that is so, then I foresee
the culture
>
Thank you very much for clearing this up, Andrew.
Liudas
- Original Message -
From: Andrew Stiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] TAN Blessing or Curse in disguise?
> >I understand th
I understand that the development of the pipe organ ties in with it being
cheaper for a Prince or Count to support one organist than constantly either
hiring or keeping under one's own roof a whole orchestra.
Liudas
Hogwash! Organs as large as any ever built were in existence by
1425--two centur
At 07:42 PM 3/4/03 +0100, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
>If we compose for 'perfect' MIDI to perform, we are then not
>composing for humans.
Your "we" doesn't speak for me. When it's needed, I compose the work
*through to its performance*, and where I feel it's appropriate, I leave
out the "middle
On 04 Mar 2003, Doug Auwarter wrote:
> Shift to what? Care to expand? Thanks, Doug
Shift from fascination with technology to contempt of it, or at least healthy
skepticism of it as something other than an occasionally useful tool towards ends
unrelated to technology.
--
Robert Patterson
http
on 3/4/03 11:42 AM, Robert Patterson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I think we are in a decades-long cultural trend of fascination with
> technology. My personal view is that the fascination is misplaced. Perhaps for
> me, familiarity breeds contempt. But if that is so, then I foresee the culture
>
- Original Message -
From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: finale list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] TAN Blessing or Curse in disguise?
> It seems to me that the questions you ask are largely moot b
On 04 Mar 2003, Doug Auwarter wrote:
> But what's fake? People have become so used to
> the sounds of drum machines and sequenced
> synth tracks that the genuine article sounds
> "weird" to them.
Okay, perhaps a more neutral term would be "non-human". But there is no question that
anyone (who i
on 3/4/03 9:36 AM, Robert Patterson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Another way to think of it is this. The better technology gets at imitating a
> human performance, the more discerning humans become at recognizing the fake.
But what's fake? People have become so used to the sounds of drum machines
At 04:56 PM 3/4/03 +0100, Mr. Liudas Motekaitis wrote:
>The Bach *may* benefit but the Rachmaninoff is a plastic robot without soul.
I suppose, depending on how you think of it. It sounds refreshingly clean
to me, but then I never cared for Rachmaninoff and his retro gesturing so
insistent so far
- Original Message -
From: Robert Patterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I think it points out the absurdity of the idea of replacing musicians
with machines. It will happen (has happened) in many areas, of course, where
cost matters more than quality. But ultimately music is about communication
I saw part of "Pluto Nash" on tv last night. It is a scifi comic thriller vehicle for
Eddie Murphy (i.e., silly) set 50-100 yrs in the future. At one point they go to a
night club where a big jazz band is playing a production number alla Frank Sinatra.
When the singer introduces the band, which
No doubt Rachmaninoff will not benefit from it very much. I see
little philisophical difference between this and what Glenn Gould did
with tapes and editing. The result is only as good as the ears and
musicality of the person creating the recording.
But on the other hand, I just heard a concert
When I first heard this technology live, I was disappointed by the way the
notes were played: there was too much randomness in the MIDI signal's
realization in the physical acoustic world of the wooden and metal piano.
However, the player piano has advanced to the point that very demanding
recordi
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