I'm working on a piece at the moment that happens to have some long notes
tied over several bars. Now I know that conventional wisdom says that if
one note is slurred to the next, the slur should extend from the very first
note over/under all of the ties to the very last note, so, for example,
Hi Colin
I've done exactly as you describe in similar circumstances, and
always felt slightly guilty about it. I would be enormously grateful
for absolution in the form of the sanction of an authoritative opinion.
John
On 16 Mar 2006, at 00:41, Colin Broom wrote:
I'm working on a piece a
Sorry guys -- slurs that don't extend to the final tied note are a
massive pet peeve of mine. For starters, they make it much more
difficult for wind players to decide where to take a breath. Slurs
are not a "fast event" -- slurs indicate phrasing.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://sec
On 16 Mar 2006 at 0:41, Colin Broom wrote:
> I know this goes against what is said in most if not all of the
> engraving books, but I have seen it in other scores, and not just
> contemporary ones. I'm just wondering if anyone has any particular
> opinions about this?
It was quite common in the
But Darcy -- surely a tie means you don't take a breath/change bow? I
can't see where any difficulty arises for wind players, or indeed for
anyone.
John
On 16 Mar 2006, at 01:31, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Sorry guys -- slurs that don't extend to the final tied note are a
massive pet peeve
On 16 Mar 2006, at 01:14, David W. Fenton wrote:Charpentier's practice of using beaming to indicate syllabification, with slurs between notes that couldn't be beamed together (the result is strings of 8 and 10 and 12 and more 16ths (no secondary beam breaks) that are just about unreadable, with
It's much easier to see some indication that spans the entire length
of a phrase, so you know how long it is at a glance. If you see a
really long slur, you know you need to take a really big breath.
Using ties alone makes it harder to see that at a glance.
- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
h
On Mar 15, 2006, at 8:55 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
It's much easier to see some indication that spans the entire length
of a phrase, so you know how long it is at a glance. If you see a
really long slur, you know you need to take a really big breath. Using
ties alone makes it harder to see
On Mar 15, 2006, at 7:52 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
I agree with this. Slurs are so easy to adjust now that they can be
made to lie quite flat and keep an uncluttered look without much
effort.
Is there a new development I'm unaware of? Last I heard, no matter how
many new tools they give
Colin Broom wrote:
I'm working on a piece at the moment that happens to have some long
notes tied over several bars. Now I know that conventional wisdom says
that if one note is slurred to the next, the slur should extend from the
very first note over/under all of the ties to the very last no
On 16.03.2006 Colin Broom wrote:
I'm working on a piece at the moment that happens to have some long notes tied
over several bars. Now I know that conventional wisdom says that if one note
is slurred to the next, the slur should extend from the very first note
over/under all of the ties to th
Well, it's hard for me to argue with Ted Ross (or even you, an
experienced user and engraver) but I am perfectly at ease with
continuous curves on slurs. A perfectly flat line might take on the
aspect of a staff line, second ending bracket, or some sort of
extension line instead of the expected
John Bell / 2006/03/16 / 08:39 PM wrote:
>But Darcy -- surely a tie means you don't take a breath/change bow? I
>can't see where any difficulty arises for wind players, or indeed for
>anyone.
I agree with Darcy. Slur indicates phrasing. Composers including even
20th Century classical, knowi
At 9:28 AM -0500 3/16/06, Christopher Smith wrote:
Well, it's hard for me to argue with Ted Ross (or even you, an
experienced user and engraver) but I am perfectly at ease with
continuous curves on slurs. A perfectly flat line might take on the
aspect of a staff line, second ending bracket, or
On Mar 16, 2006, at 6:28 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Well, it's hard for me to argue with Ted Ross (or even you, an
experienced user and engraver) but I am perfectly at ease with
continuous curves on slurs. A perfectly flat line might take on the
aspect of a staff line, second ending bracket,
Oh, I don't think we were talking about terminology at all; we were
discussing what shape slurs should have. I don't think it makes any
difference if they are serving as slurs or phrase marks.
I was just saying that I thought it is not necessary to have perfectly
flat parts of slurs, as Mark p
On Mar 16, 2006, at 12:24 PM, Mark D Lew wrote:
On Mar 16, 2006, at 6:28 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Well, it's hard for me to argue with Ted Ross (or even you, an
experienced user and engraver) but I am perfectly at ease with
continuous curves on slurs. A perfectly flat line might take on
Christopher Smith wrote:
Oh, I don't think we were talking about terminology at all; we were
discussing what shape slurs should have. I don't think it makes any
difference if they are serving as slurs or phrase marks.
I was just saying that I thought it is not necessary to have perfectly
fla
With regards to proper long slurs, Finale can't do them, and it is perhaps the
only remaining missing feature that cannot be achieved practically by any means
using any workaround. We simply have to live without right now (and apparently
the foreseeable future, unless Sib. adds them). :-( The on
On Mar 16, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
I will post it to you privately when I get home tonight. You probably
won't like my settings, but then again, you don't have to. I don't
like them myself half the time, and the other half I don't have the
time to mess with them. Are you o
At 3:06 PM -0500 3/16/06, Christopher Smith wrote:
Oh, I don't think we were talking about terminology at all; we were
discussing what shape slurs should have. I don't think it makes any
difference if they are serving as slurs or phrase marks.
Well, yes, except that a true slur (articulation i
On Mar 15, 2006, at 8:31 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Sorry guys -- slurs that don't extend to the final tied note are a
massive pet peeve of mine. For starters, they make it much more
difficult for wind players to decide where to take a breath. Slurs are
not a "fast event" -- slurs indicate
At 08:44 PM 3/16/06 +, Robert Patterson wrote:
>With regards to proper long slurs, Finale can't do them,
>and it is perhaps the only remaining missing feature that
>cannot be achieved practically by any means using any
>workaround.
Practically, no. Impractically, yes. It's really inconvenie
On Mar 16, 2006, at 4:27 PM, John Howell wrote:
At 3:06 PM -0500 3/16/06, Christopher Smith wrote:
Oh, I don't think we were talking about terminology at all; we were
discussing what shape slurs should have. I don't think it makes any
difference if they are serving as slurs or phrase marks.
y or difficult it is to
implement.
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:07 PM
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] TAN: Slurs on long, tied notes
>
> At 08:44 PM 3/16/06 +, R
At 11:26 PM 3/16/06 +, Robert Patterson wrote:
>But an unreliable one is worse than useless
What's unreliable? I don't understand that. It's a kludge, but it works if
you really need it. If a composer asks for it -- and they have -- you gotta
do it some way!
Dennis
--
Please participate
On Mar 16, 2006, at 12:44 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
Whether you want them or not, whether you agree with Ted Ross or not,
an engraving program should have them. Ted Ross (among a bare handful
of others) defines some industry best-practices. You don't have to
take his suggestions, of course,
Mark D Lew wrote:
On Mar 16, 2006, at 12:44 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
Whether you want them or not, whether you agree with Ted Ross or not,
an engraving program should have them. Ted Ross (among a bare handful
of others) defines some industry best-practices. You don't have to
take his sug
Mark D Lew wrote:
I'm not
at all bothered by seeing a slur end at the first note in a tie.
I also agree with this. I think the goal of including ties inside slurs
is admirable as a goal. But it becomes rather precious when the first or
last note is a series of tied notes several bars long.
On Mar 17, 2006, at 2:21 AM, dhbailey wrote:
But just because Ted Ross is the only one who actually wrote a book
about it doesn't make him the final arbiter on all matters concerning
music layout.
To some extent Ted Ross and others like him are creating a standard.
There are enough engrave
On Mar 17, 2006, at 7:02 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
Instead of taking easy potshots at a book by someone who, after all,
was no professional writer, I prefer to be grateful that an
experienced engraver took the trouble to write a book about it before
the art disappeared.
If someone here has
Mark D Lew wrote:
For example, the one Ross rule which is probably my greatest personal
peeve -- that tempo marks must be in bold --
In all fairness, what Ross says about tempo marks is, "...a bolder roman
type is commonly used..." (p. A-8). This is about as non-prescriptive as
you could as
On Mar 18, 2006, at 7:17 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
In all fairness, what Ross says about tempo marks is, "...a bolder
roman type is commonly used..." (p. A-8). This is about as
non-prescriptive as you could ask for. Once could hardly call it a
"rule", especially since earlier chapters are m
Robert Patterson wrote:
Mark D Lew wrote:
For example, the one Ross rule which is probably my greatest personal
peeve -- that tempo marks must be in bold --
In all fairness, what Ross says about tempo marks is, "...a bolder roman
type is commonly used..." (p. A-8). This is about as non-p
On 16.03.2006 Andrew Stiller wrote:
Yes and no. Consider: a quarter note slurred to a succession of 17 tied whole notes. The
"phrase" consists only of the first two notes; extending the slur to the last
whole note (especially across multiple system breaks) would be IMO an absurdity.
That said,
This thread has been kind of funny for me, as I regularly do copy
work for a composer who habitually slurs only to the first tied note
-- but in his case, it's just laziness/force of habit. Since this
type of slurring is completely unacceptable in commercial copywork, I
regularly have to re
I happen to be helping my son, the bass player, copy out the piano
reduction of the Bass Concerto by Eduard Tubin. (It's written for bass
with solo tuning - that is with all four strings tuned a step higher -
and he is learning it first on regular tuning. So he and I are copying
it so he can
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