Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

All computers are analog at their base. The only thing that distinguishes so-called analog computers from typical computers is their lack of universality. The analogies/models these analog computers implement are simply more obvious than those of the more universal, general purpose, computers

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

eritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 2:47 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied C

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

; Nick > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > Clark University > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > -Original Message- > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com ] On > Behalf Of Marcus Daniels > S

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

In plain language discussions it is clear that "computation" is only one of many ways to arrive at an answer. I would suggest that anything that strays too far from that will become hopelessly confused. If my daughter has homework, and is supposed to compute the answer herself, then asking me i

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

aldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 2:47 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks "Ask" could be a higher order fu

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

"Not to change the subject, but make an observation: It has always been my opinion that, had software development as a profession and practice been derived from the computational science of Ramon Lull and Leibniz instead of the computer science of Turing and Simon (Sciences of the Artificial) tr

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Sorry. Let's try again. The link did not seem to come through for the cognitive science paper "Computation vs. information processing: why their difference matters to cognitive science

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

> > Many would argue (eg Seth Llloyd > http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020603/full/news020527-16.html) that > *any* process that involves changes of state is computation. Can you name a > "procedure for arriving at answers" that doesn't involve a series of > processes that change state? That pret

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Marcus points out - "One way to divide things up is between computational science and computer science, where the computational scientists use computers as tools to integrate experiment & theory in the natural sciences. Computer science considers the mathematics of computation itself." Not to ch

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

``Whether something fits the intuitive concept of "computation" usually ends up being about binding (or grounding). If it's all merely syntactic manipulation of symbols, then it's computation. If it's something more, if it _means_ something, then it's no longer computation.'' One way to divid

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

On 07/06/2016 01:23 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: I'm not claiming nature _is_ computational in nature. But if it isn't we can't productively model nature at all. There is nothing to talk about if phenomenology has no predictable regularities. Pray to the Donald and hope for the best. You'r

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

"your fishing expedition will likely be thwarted in waters that are exceeding turbulent from the interaction of prevailing trends: nothing exists except information, (re)configurations of that information yield transformations of the Universe from one state to another, and all (re)configuration

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Well, that's kindasorta where I was going by complaining about definiteness. [sigh] If we allow that computations can arrive at indefinite answers (which I think is possible with Marcus' comment about symbolic "computation"), then it's hopeless. Computation covers everything. But if we forc

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

inal Message- > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:06 PM > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks > > I didn't ask it

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Nick writes: > I guess what I was fishing for is some sort of exploration of the idea that not all procedures for arriving at answers are computations. Many would argue (eg Seth Llloyd http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020603/full/news020527-16.html) that *any* process that involves changes of state

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks I didn't ask it because I wasn't smart enough to think of it. I guess what I was fishing for is some sort of exploration of the idea that not all procedures for arriving at answers are computation

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

ubject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks "Ask" could be a higher order function that takes as an argument a "says" function. Provided those are made precise enough to be operational, then you would have a "consult the Oracle" program/algorithm. Details such as &quo

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

I tend to use the word "algorithm" to mean processes that are guaranteed to stop. Anything that's not guaranteed to stop is simply a "process". The process below may or may not have a guaranteed stop, depending on how it's implemented[*]. If you had not said "ask dad" and "dad says", then it

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

ing at here. Why don't you just say? I thought it was probably "computing is not insight" or something like that? -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Nick Thompson Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 12:33 PM To: 'The Friday Morning App

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

ect: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks Nick, It's fantastic how you punch right through the rhetoric to the deeper philosophical points. Thanks. It all depends on how you define "compute". I think the best definition offered here (by Lee) is Soare's: "A computat

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Nick, It's fantastic how you punch right through the rhetoric to the deeper philosophical points. Thanks. It all depends on how you define "compute". I think the best definition offered here (by Lee) is Soare's: "A computation is a process whereby we proceed from initially given objects, ca

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Can one “compute” the square root of two? One can calculate using real or imaginary number types, but on can also calculate with expression types. Most modern programming languages have them these days. So one can also “compute” on objects that relate concepts to one another.For exampl

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

m-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 10:31 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks You can decide what it means to compute the square root of 2. For example, you can program the Turing machine to en

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

t; > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric > Charles > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 05, 2016 2:44 PM > *To:* T

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Eric Charles Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 2:44 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Nick, It is not a tautology, because (at the least) it is a program written by people, so the definition of an accept state is determined outside the system in question. At its most basic level, the Turing machine isn't calculating the answer to a problem, it is accepting or rejecting a hypothesis

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

That is, it’s a definition, not a theorem. --Barry On 2 Jul 2016, at 13:06, Nick Thompson wrote: > I smell a tautology, here.  FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscrib

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

An accept state is merely a final or end state. A Turing machine is a generalization (has greater capabilities) than a standard state machine. A state machine has states and transitions from one state to another, with the "accept state" as the end of the chain. name derives from "acceptable"

Re: [FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Fortunately this really is a simple idea. In one sentence: Assuming you already understand the basic idea of a Turing machine (a device that moves from state to state as it reads/writes symbols on its tape), an accept state is a state that is designated in advance to mean that if the machine ever g

[FRIAM] Understanding you-folks

Dear Friammers, When I came to Santa Fe a decade ago, a recently retired psychology professor and writer, it was with a great interest in complexity and a faith that, with enough patience, and diligence I could come to understand what you were all about. This has proved much more difficult th