On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
...Perhaps the proposal needs to make it explicit that the initial champion is
the one to call a vote for the first non-IPMC champion and that this is am
important step on the road to graduation
I think that's
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:56 AM, Brett Porter br...@apache.org wrote:
Wow, my thread got away from me. Thanks for tying all that back together
Bertrand!..
You're welcome - I hope this is aligned with your initial idea!
Considering the various comments in this thread, heres a slightly
On 25 November 2011 09:13, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:56 AM, Brett Porter br...@apache.org wrote:
...
4a. Existing podlings will need to elect a Champion, unless their
current one agrees to take on the above tasks.
add before graduation?
If
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
On 25 November 2011 09:13, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
...
4a. Existing podlings will need to elect a Champion, unless their
current one agrees to take on the above tasks.
add before
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
...I think the Champion should be an ASF mentor, which I believe
to be consistent with my interpretation of the documentation on podling
[PROPOSAL]...
I agree that the *initial* Champion must be an
On 24 November 2011 03:29, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote:
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
I'm sorry. I did not mean to suggest that the champion of the PPMC of which
I am a member is any of those cases. I'm certain our champion is
: Which is exactly why I suggest extending/clarifying that role. The
: word Champion might not be ideal, but we already have it and if you
: read
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html#Champion
: it can be understood to include those new responsibilities (as Chris
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
...I think the Champion should be an ASF mentor, which I believe
to be consistent with my interpretation of the
On 23 November 2011 20:25, Chris Hostetter hossman_l...@fucit.org wrote:
...
: Vice President implies power, we don't want to give the impression
: that the Champion has any superpowers (reread the thread from which
: this one derives) - it's just a coordination role.
Isn't that true of the
That would work for me, Bertrand...with the assumption that the
later *Champion* would be the eventual VP. I think that *has*
to happen and is consistent with what I have seen even now.
Which brings me to...what's the delta here between this proposal and
the current norm? What you describe
Hi Chris,
On Thursday, November 24, 2011, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:
...Which brings me to...what's the delta here between this proposal and
the current norm? What you describe below is really the current
way it's gone for me at least IMHO, with Tika, with OODT, with Gora,
etc.
Hey Bertrand,
On Nov 24, 2011, at 8:10 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
Hi Chris,
On Thursday, November 24, 2011, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:
...Which brings me to...what's the delta here between this proposal and
the current norm? What you describe below is really the current
way
My apologies for the diversion. I should not have said anything about my
direct knowledge of a champion being an IPMC member or not. Whether I knew
that or not was irrelevant to the point I wanted to make, which is now
evidently lost.
1. I find value in the idea of the original champion
I had hoped that the business of a PPMC-member champion being a VP-elect would
have just gone away. That coupling is certain to inspire political motivation
and purpose.
I think that's a terrible trick to play on a PPMC.
- Dennis
-Original Message-
From: Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
On 24 November 2011 17:17, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
I had hoped that the business of a PPMC-member champion being a VP-elect
would have just gone away. That coupling is certain to inspire political
motivation and purpose.
I think that's a terrible trick to play on
On 24 November 2011 17:17, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
My apologies for the diversion. I should not have said anything about my
direct knowledge of a champion being an IPMC member or not. Whether I knew
that or not was irrelevant to the point I wanted to make, which is
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
On 24 November 2011 17:17, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
I had hoped that the business of a PPMC-member champion being a VP-elect
would have just gone away. That coupling is certain to inspire
On Nov 24, 2011, at 9:25 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
On 24 November 2011 17:17, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
I had hoped that the business of a PPMC-member champion being a VP-elect
would have just gone away. That coupling is certain to inspire political
motivation and
On 24 November 2011 17:34, ant elder ant.el...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
On 24 November 2011 17:17, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org
wrote:
I had hoped that the business of a PPMC-member champion being a
I understand about PMC chairs, but I thought that is for a TLP and happens at
Podling graduation.
Having PPMC chairs is a different story, and I hope I was careful not to
confuse the two. I also don't want to collapse champion and PPMC chair in
some way. I still favor the one and not the
Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
On Nov 24, 2011 5:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org
wrote:
I understand about PMC chairs, but I thought that is for a TLP and
happens at
Podling graduation.
The official role of PMC chair is created upon
Wow, my thread got away from me. Thanks for tying all that back together
Bertrand!
+1 to this proposal, whatever they happen to be called (I find Champion a bit
weird still, but I can see how it fits - and we don't need any more acronyms).
A couple of notes:
On 23/11/2011, at 8:29 AM,
Ross,
I don't see the champion (who is at least a mentor) and an informal PPMC chair
somehow selected among the PPMC members as interchangeable or equivalent. My
concern was, to the extent that view exists (and I may simply be confused), I
don't get it.
I'd be happy to learn that I have
Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
On Nov 25, 2011 5:41 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org
wrote:
Ross,
I don't see the champion (who is at least a mentor) and an informal PPMC
chair somehow selected among the PPMC members as interchangeable or
Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
On Nov 23, 2011 8:12 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Christian Grobmeier
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:15 AM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:28:06PM +0100, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
...The word champion doesn't seem to describe this new role precisely. A
champion is someone who fights on your behalf -- in the context of a new
On 23 November 2011 09:14, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
...
Vice President implies power, we don't want to give the impression
that the Champion has any superpowers (reread the thread from which
this one derives) - it's just a coordination role.
+1
I imagine I would
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Ross Gardler
rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
On Nov 23, 2011 8:12 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
I can already hear the questions: Can I serve as
a Champion, I am not a
Great stuff, and great discussion. Thanks in particular Bertrand for
making it a specific proposal. +1
On 2011-11-22 4:29 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
...
3. The Champion is not necessarily a mentor.
Correct - from the organizational point of view, the champion role as
defined is
As member of a PPMC whose champion continued after formation of the podling, I
would miss someone in that role.
Also, the notion of the champion as the podling mentor herder has a certain
appeal.
At the moment, our champion is the person who performs many of the actions that
require more
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
3. The Champion is not necessarily a mentor.
Ah now I know what confused me.
A Champion is not necessarily a mentor - but he should be either on
the IPMC, a Officer or a Member, right?
A Champion cannot be
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 02:09:13PM -0800, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
Also, the notion of the champion as the podling mentor herder has a certain
appeal.
It seems a little odd to me that a PPMC member who is neither an ASF Member
nor on the IPMC may be elected to the Champion role and then would
On Nov 23, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 02:09:13PM -0800, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
Also, the notion of the champion as the podling mentor herder has a certain
appeal.
It seems a little odd to me that a PPMC member who is neither an ASF Member
nor on
I'm sorry. I did not mean to suggest that the champion of the PPMC of which I
am a member is any of those cases. I'm certain our champion is an ASF Member.
I haven't checked to see if the champion is a member of the IPMC, though I
wouldn't be surprised.
I was not speaking on behalf of
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
I'm sorry. I did not mean to suggest that the champion of the PPMC of which
I am a member is any of those cases. I'm certain our champion is an ASF
Member. I haven't checked to see if the champion is a
+1 on everything, just a few comments...
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
3. The Champion is not necessarily a mentor.
Not sure if that actually makes sense. I think a Champion is a mentor
by default somehow
4. The podling can elect a new
The last time I was in this neighborhood, I was told (by no less than
our esteemed chairman) that the Champion's role was purely to play
Virgil on a podling's initial tour of the Foundation and the
Incubator. Once the podling was accepted, the Champion evaporated.
If I add Bertrand and
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Benson Margulies
bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
...2) We redefine the term Champion to be a sort of meta-mentor who,
somehow, watches out for bears or missing mentors without necessarily
getting deeply involved...
That's exactly what I'm suggesting.
...As far
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Christian Grobmeier
grobme...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
3. The Champion is not necessarily a mentor.
Not sure if that actually makes sense. I think a Champion is a mentor
by default
On Nov 22, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
[..snip..]
But as you say that role evaporates once the project starts, so it
seems to make sense to give more meaning to it, considering that that
fills some existing gaps.
That hasn't been my experience at all. I've been a Champion
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov wrote:
On Nov 22, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
...But as you say that role evaporates once the project starts, so it
seems to make sense to give more meaning to it, considering that that
Thanks Bertrand.
I guess my whole point is that I think what you guys are discussing
as Champion is what I've always felt it was.
Anyhoo, take care and Happy Holidays (at least out here in the States!) :-)
Cheers,
Chris
On Nov 22, 2011, at 3:36 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
On Wed, Nov 23,
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:28:06PM +0100, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Benson Margulies
bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
...2) We redefine the term Champion to be a sort of meta-mentor who,
somehow, watches out for bears or missing mentors without necessarily
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