Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:24:18 +0200
Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
People will (and should) have -test in FEATURES anyway, good
self-test suites usually take more than twice the time to build and
run, may have additional dependencies that could take lots o
y overriding the versioning
rules of an eapi.
"Must be a superset" being wrong does not mean "entirely arbitrary
changes are OK" is right.
You have actual usecases (eventually not thin air), which is your
counterproposal that works for them?
lu
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lu - thinking of a darker future.
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having to fix the
whole tree all at once. Users can still choose not to go with the default.
People will (and should) have -test in FEATURES anyway, good self-test
suites usually take more than twice the time to build and run, may have
additional dependencies that could take lots of time.
Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
On 10 Jun 2008, at 15:48, Luca Barbato wrote:
Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
No, it doesn't make parsing faster. *Had you bothered to profile any
package manager you'd know that.*
Do you have any number to share?
What number are you interested in?
Profili
Fernando J. Pereda wrote:
No, it doesn't make parsing faster. Had you bothered to profile any
package manager you'd know that.
Do you have any number to share?
lu
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Being that the case you'd just need 2 trees, managed as overlay and a
marker for each tree on which eapi to use, but I dislike empty theories
or hardly searched corner cases that could be avoided with half of the
effort necessary to get there.
lu
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Gen
h the minimal eapi and the
minimal set of ebuilds needed to upgrade, one with the latest and greatest.
lu
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The simplest way is to change the syncpoint in the new package manager
and leave the previous uri with a compatibility repo for the older ones.
lu
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filename tools now knowing EAPI-42 will either ignore
the above foo-1.0.ebuild-42 or mask it because they may identify the
EAPI-version without sourcing the ebuild.
Check if exists a line EAPI=*$, if does and the rest of the string
matches an understood eapi, go on sourcing, otherwise ignore/
better.
lu
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* to read PMS in LaTeX,
which by the way makes my eyes bleed somewhat, you can read it in a very
well done PDF.
The pdf renders poorly on xpdf due the fonts latex has, usually I'd
rather have plain text anyway.
lu
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t yours.
Third, you should have a non-breaking space between 'see' and the
reference.
Pointless nit.
How does "bunch o'neat code" deal with our code file containing things
that XML considers to be reserved characters? That code probably has
ampersands and angle brackets
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:50:11 +0200
Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So how, specifically, is PMS "wrongly written", and why hasn't
anyone who thinks so bothered to provide details?
- rewrite it as an rfc using a markup among xmlrfc, docb
anyone
who thinks so bothered to provide details?
- rewrite it as an rfc using a markup among xmlrfc, docbook, guidexml.
- use EBNF when describing a syntax.
- split it and version each functional part.
- define EAPI as an aggregate of those versions in a separate part.
lu
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how wrongly the PMS is written, e.g. academic paper markup vs
plain text, natural language used to specify syntax while a grammar
notation like EBNF would be better suited, when I asked people why so
few were contributing about this document.
lu
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u fix them, discussing the changes with the people in
-dev (NOT THE COUNCIL) or you may retract them.
3. Most wanted changes in future EAPIs
Somebody is thinking the PMS and the EAPI definition as it is are wrong
and should be replaced since they aren't useful for their purpose.
lu
-
festo is still valid =)
lu
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, I accept.
lu
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rter repoman and bugzilla integration to handle
stabilization and keyword bugs automagically would be great but I think
would require time (since such bugs could spare the dev some trips
around bugzie)
lu
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s uncommon since it isn't the simplest thing to do,
doesn't work in every place, you have to be particular perverse and
convoluted even to think about this.
- making such thing go away is good for security, maintainability and
sanity.
lu
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people is discussing with you since thinks, wrongly, that
could be possible take something good from this discussion. The patch
you pointed doesn't look complete nor acceptable to upstream as is, yet
could help.
lu
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http:
ing upstream to use pkg-config if they aren't
already.
lu
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good reason.
As in "we have a square wheels, let's make routes for them"...
Anyway is the book a standard? Is it available as pdf so you can point
me the exact paragraph?
lu - changing the world so non euclidean aberrations fit isn't sensible
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2008 01:13:58 +0200
Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I know exactly which standard -ffast-math violates (IEEE/ISO floating
point spec) and how (the man page is quite complete about this),
--as-needed doesn't have any warning about this,
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
I'd bet you could get a pretty long way by shoving -ffast-math into
CFLAGS by default before anyone would notice...
Non sequitur. We are talking about --as-needed, not -ffast-math.
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wrote most of the ELF spec...).
Point the spec, and the paragraph violated.
lu
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n move to having
--as-needed as default.
lu
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tly a sane thing.
lu - less excuses to laziness please.
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d it call their init functions, when a static object with a
constructor can do the job just fine?
Talk to the upstream about this, probably getting a satisfying solution
isn't that difficult.
lu
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ere:
http://overlays.gentoo.org/dev/pva/browser/dev-libs/lockdev/
I needed it as I wanted to try schroot but after some attempts (without
much luck) and I've went with writing my own script to manage chroots.
did you publish it?
If works better than schroot maybe others could enjoy it ^
knows if he'll work on
bringing PureData to Gentoo too!
Additional points if he makes coccinella work on non x86:
- requires getting tile and treectl in portage
- requires hacking a bit the coccinella sources
lu
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) systems
concern - lzma-utils depends on the C++ compiler and the libstdc++
beast, while a minimal system would like to avoid this at all cost.
I'd rewrite the C++ code in plain C if isn't that complex...
lu
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this ?
that qemu is a sore exception, you should help upstream porting to gcc-4
if you have time, every people concerned should.
Nowadays most of the work left to be done is _pretty_ boring and
_pretty_ simple so everybody could help patching ^^
lu
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Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
Hi,
Now, gegl has 13 optional dependencies that could be use-flagged. The pity
is, it has no configure-option for most of them, they are autodetected.
A good example for miserable design ;-P
That's why I everythin
m all
as long as there are no patches? Let the automagic go in the tree? Opinions
welcome.
Where is the ebuild, put it as is hardmasked with a note about this,
then we could work together on it.
lu
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ir as well.
Partial builds are quite a problem since they are anything but reliable.
lu
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st resort in order to protect it isn't that
uncommon.
Council was notified in advance of the written policy change and
approved it.
musikc never abused her position and I'm confident she won't in the future.
On the other hand we got MANY complaints about your behavior lately.
n could be useful.
lu
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EAPIs.
Usually I rather see the specific problem before looking for solutions.
If packages intertwine in strange ways _maybe_ we could work with
upstream to fix the insanity at the source instead host it ourselves.
lu
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
cat/a-1: RDEPEND cat/b
cat/b-1: RDEPEND cat/a
This is solvable. If package managers can't solve this, they can't
install Gnome off a stage 3...
Which are the packages involved in such cycle?
lu
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quot;batch" a few conversions so that each revdep-rebuild fixes multiple
breakages in one.
Call that an experiment, do not start screaming but just try to help a bit.
I think we could have those change masked now and unmasked once we got
something sorted better.
lu
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I advise to start asking library upstreams to provide
pkgconfig files (and/or push patches providing that).
lu
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Tiziano Müller wrote:
Luca Barbato wrote:
It gives an annoyance please reconsider.
Done that. Won't change. See my answer to dberkholz's message.
As long you keep a meta package, as you told in the reply I read just
now, seems a good plan in the end.
lu
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time
(that'll be May 8th) but this is of course subject to the state of
affairs when we get that far :)
Daniel
People using ati-drivers (and possibly other external drivers) as usual
do not upgrade if you aren't ready to help fixing the drivers. ^^
lu
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Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
Tiziano Müller wrote:
What do the new ebuilds offer:
a) A split into dev-db/postgresql-{base,server,docs}.
WRONG we aren't debian.
It's bad, just because Debian does it ?!
Sounds quite religions to me. I don&
efore.
c) Slotting: It is now possible to have more than one major version of
PostgreSQL installed and running on the same machine.
Great =)
d) A lot of other improvements, in detail, the following bugs will be fixed:
Wonderful =)
lu
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n the first ;)
I do not see any improvement per se.
How do others feel about such an addition?
I think it's pointless.
lu
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some are
just nsplugins (and those shouldn't require a change)
lu
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esn't work like that, our cvs must be stable, you have a relatively
narrow window between syncs to the mirrors and if you make a mistake and
don't fix it within that time, users will suffer.
lu
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s
to do that by ourselves.
Might be i have ideas how to fix but I need to gain some experience with
repoman before I present those.
Thank you for your offer, I'm looking forward to heard back from you =)
lu
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not do anything about that.
lu
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slotting it, p.mask xulrunner-1.9 and
wait until all the packages work against it and then unmask.
Given the number of applications I'd rather have them fixed with the
patches pushed to respective upstreams if we got there first.
lu
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thing for macosx?
lu
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
PMS currently has the following:
The package manager must not impose fixed limits upon the number of
version components. No integer part of a version specification may
contain more than eight digits. Package managers should indicate or
reject any version that is invalid a
taken into consideration.
- crossbuild support for a gentoo compatible package manager (up to the
student pick which)
- eselect pm and emerge wrapper for alternate package managers.
2) We need mentors, so far confirmed I have: Diego and Saleem
add me.
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William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/java/getting-involved.xml
>
Maybe could we get it moved on the top level?
lu
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Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>
> Isn't this just einstall with maybe one change?
>
Probably =)
lu
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> Foundation to run, leaving us with one (or possibly two) trustees.
I guess this part requires discussion elsewhere since there isn't much
technical.
lu
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Petteri Räty wrote:
> Well having it open source doesn't mean automatically ppc support but
> there are people working on it.
I'm quite aware about it I followed the improvement on this side since a
while even if I hadn't the time to try myself building it on ppc yet.
could be
present, but, as I said, usually you catch those breaking on gcc. So
having some way to test if the package builds (cross toolchain) and if
the package at least runs (qemu) IS something that should let small
arches with large tree coverage improve a bit. Otherwise you can just
reduce the t
the proctors, after all.
Item already present I think.
> I am asking a question as a member of the devrel confres subproject and as
> an interested developer.
you know the channel and the time ^^;
lu
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anned in the heat of some
> discussions but this basically regulated itself by those kicked (by
> simply re-joining) or others removing those bans rather sooner than later
> if they were inappropriate.
And that's perfectly fine and will remain the same hopefully =)
lu
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Petteri Räty wrote:
>
> - Get the remaining Generation 1 stuff out of the tree (not much left)
> - Start using virtuals more
> - Eclass cleanup and new make our setup even more automatic
any plan/idea about icedtea? as a ppc user I'd love too see it in
portage ^^;
lu
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ow (mplayer,
ffmpeg, xine, vlc...Hi Diego =)) and probably we'll have to handle some
pretty new stuff related to heterogeneous cores (CELL, CUDA) if what is
brewing right now gets more stable. We'll probably need more help from
the toolchain people to get some stuff building sanely.
lu
Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
> Might as well toss a coin or check the phase of the moon...
Forgot those and dropping mips from the main repo as whole, yes.
lu
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:19:10 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> PS: has anybody checked how viable is now qemu-system ?
>
> Testing on qemu isn't anything like testing on real hardware. It's not
> a reliable or useful w
Ryan Hill wrote:
>> PS: has anybody checked how viable is now qemu-system ?
>
> Does it build with GCC 4 yet?
not yet...
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om that env isn't valid imo, either.
>
> Right. Paludis will give a weird die message but not actually fail if
> you do:
>
> src_compile() {
> { sleep 10 ; has_version '>=app-misc/foo-1.23' ; } &
> }
is & allowed in ebuilds? should?
lu
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e stable keyword for such arches.
Anything other suggestions?
lu
PS: has anybody checked how viable is now qemu-system ?
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pdate in a timely
way you should ask and possibly get an account on an arch box in order
to test it and bump if the minimal test pass"
sounds fair?
lu
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erhaps upstream have a list
> where they can discuss it.
OpenRC is an gentoo hosted project even if roy didn't feel to be a
gentoo developer anymore, so this thread is In Topic and we'd rather
discuss with him those details in order to keep baselayout one of the
most interesting feature
Marius Mauch wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:12:11 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> - tools to explicitly manipulate sets
>
> Elaborate.
>
> Marius
add/remove/move packages to a set
on merge command you can define additional sets in which
properly...
bad users of tools are always present, by itself autotools gives support
and usually works out of box.
> Tree branching will very quickly become unmanageable. Users will be
> forced to choose a branch, but useful features will be spread across
> different branches.
Only if y
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:12:11 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Some items I have in wishlist
>>
>> - LRDEPEND link runtime dep (I need to link against that in order to
>> run)
>> - BDEPEND build dep (I need t
something.
- tools to explicitly manipulate sets
long time ideas:
- support cross, multiarch, multilib in a saner and seamless way
please comment =)
lu
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Marius Mauch wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:10:13 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Ok, that seems a fine definition of what an eapi is. Everybody agrees on it?
>
> Nope. EAPI (from my POV) defines the API that a package manager has to export
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 04:19:45 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
>>> On Thursday 20 of December 2007 19:29:22 Zhang Le wrote:
>>>> So please make those people understand, so they can c
e path
> b) no good because there isn't a sane way of forcing a package manager
> upgrade and
Say why?
> c) another one of those "wait a year until we can use anything" things.
Or spend 6 months discussing something that may or may not be accepted
because lacks enough doc
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 04:24:06 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Not if we move the rsync path properly so
>>
>> - older pm sync to a minimal try apt to upgrading portage and nothing
>> else
>>
>> - newer s
Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote:
> On Friday 21 December 2007 03:41:04 Luca Barbato wrote:
>>> * We have to wait a year before we can use it.
>> We have to wait till we got a new release and I hope it isn't 12months.
>
> And then we have to wait till noone use a versio
Michael Haubenwallner wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 17:22 +0100, Luca Barbato wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking about having them embedded in the comment as first line as
>> something like
>>
>> #!/usr/bin/env emerge --eapi $foo
>
> OT: It actually works adding t
Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
> On Thursday 20 of December 2007 19:29:22 Zhang Le wrote:
>> So please make those people understand, so they can comment usefully.
>
> Are we in the elementary school or something? This is really getting
> ridiculous.
>
ietf.org Are they ridicu
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:24:26 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Since seems that enough people are against this glep and many are
>> undecided I started polling around for alternatives...
>
> But there has yet to be a corr
e are against this glep and many are
undecided I started polling around for alternatives...
lu
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documents that could help people getting an informed opinion,
they would have to be referenced in the GLEP anyway.
lu
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:17:12 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Putting a tag in the file name or at the to of the file as comment
>> (maybe using a #! line) is the same ...
>
> Three problems:
>
> * We have to wait a
g a tag in the file name or at the to of the file as comment
(maybe using a #! line) is the same ...
We aren't on DOS we can use that nice tool called file and it's magic...
lu
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blished it doesn't exist in the main tree...
lu
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ersioning per tree.
This solves pretty much the root problems:
"do not have the package manager break on tree update"
and
"have a way to update the package manager from an ancient setup w/out
unpacking a newer stage on it (that could be yet another solution)"
Feel free to flame
y?
>
>> So either choose the one that's accepted by the majority
>
> The majority of devs doesn't even read here (not to speak of active
> participation).
That says a lot in itself...
lu
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Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> Here's some other ideas for how to express EAPI. What if we:
If this idea of eapi is the best. I'm doubtful it is.
lu
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Luca Barbato
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:31:14 +0100
> Luca Barbato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Before spending even more time on it, could we try to come up with a
>> definition of what eapi is, which problem is trying to solve and put
>> that somewhere
Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 03:31 Thu 20 Dec , Luca Barbato wrote:
>> Before spending even more time on it, could we try to come up with a
>> definition of what eapi is, which problem is trying to solve and put
>> that somewhere that isn't a long thread or an handf
m is trying to solve and put
that somewhere that isn't a long thread or an handful of threads
scattered across mailing lists.
Then we could think about this implementation detail if the best
implementation for it is really sticking tags somewhere in the ebuild.
lu
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Luca Barbato
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Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
> Mixing EAPIs can't work.
Why? I'm afraid that before proposing that we could go back thinking
about which is the usage of EAPI.
Is the a concise and clear text about it already?
lu
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Luca Barbato
Gentoo Council Member
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Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 of December 2007 15:37:44 Luca Barbato wrote:
>> How would it be different than having EAPI="string" put in a defined
>> position of the file?
>
> We wouldn't be able to take advantage of this GLEP for a year or so.
Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:
> Hello,
>
> attaching the GLEP.
>
> most current version:
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~peper/glep-0055.html
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~peper/glep-0055.txt
>
>
How would it be different than having EAPI="string" put in a defined
positio
7-r1.ebuild-prefix 1 2 foo zork bar baz fa querty
>> 3 8 4' (and that example uses no odd chars beyond the EAPI component
>> space separator)?
>
> This is talking about something not covered by this GLEP so what is
> your point?
>
I think the glep should try to address this concern...
lu
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Luca Barbato
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