Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Shawn K. O'Shea
ings. Good for me, since at my current place of employment, I support various quantities of Fedora, Red Hat Linux, Red Hat Enterprise, CentOS, SuSE, Debian, Ubuntu, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, Mac OS X, NT4, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista, and a small handful of other wac

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Ted Roche
On Feb 27, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Tom Buskey wrote: Most people seem to be doing just one distribution. Is anyone else doing multiples? Similar. FC6/Ubuntu LTS/WinXPPro on the primary laptop, OS X Tiger primary desktop, in-house servers running FC version x, CentOS. Commercial servers running

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Travis Roy
OSX On my Macbook (with a WinXP Parallels VM for work stuff) Ubuntu Server on my colo server Ubuntu Server on my home server (file/print) KnoppMyth on my new MythTV box in the basement and a mix of CentOS and Fedora at work I also have an old Dell laptop for a "backup" that runs Wi

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Neil Joseph Schelly
On Tuesday 27 February 2007 09:59 am, Ben Scott wrote: > LVM (which I use extensively) is really nice for trying multiple > distributions. Virtualization (VMware, Xen, etc.) is making that > practice obsolete, but at least right now, IME, a VM is still not the > same as running something "on the

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Tom Buskey
d of printing. They run uLinux. I also have various old Sun systems, Macintosh 68k systems, PCs and an SGI Indy that I might run every now and then. I use Knoppix for rescue and similar purposes on a semi-regular basis. And they're awesome to give out to people asking 'Hey, what's this

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Neil Joseph Schelly
On Tuesday 27 February 2007 08:59 am, Tom Buskey wrote: > Most people seem to be doing just one distribution. Is anyone else doing > multiples? Debian Stable on my desktop. Debian Stable on my laptop. Debian Stable on home firewall/router/VPN endpoint. Kubuntu on wife's laptop and Win2K on wife's

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Ben Scott
White Box Enterprise Linux, a RHEL clone. I've got a TiVo and a LinkSys WRT54G, both of which run Linux (and are entered into the Linux Counter (http://counter.li.org) as such!). I use Knoppix for rescue and similar purposes on a semi-regular basis. The GNHLUG server (liberty.gnhlug.org)

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Drew Van Zandt
Just Debian at home & work, and one of the FC's on a webserver... and the FC will go away shortly, I don't have enough knowledge of weird corners to keep it uncrufted under the onslaught of "hey I'm installing foo" from the guy I was sharing the server with, who's just competent enough to be dange

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/27/07, Star <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Next on the adgenda... Gnome is so much better than KDE because... Oh sure. Ben spends a half an hour crafting 'the perfect intro' to flame city, and what do you respond with? A one liner.. Shoulda known part II would suck. :-) -- -- Thomas __

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Tom Buskey
Most people seem to be doing just one distribution. Is anyone else doing multiples? I'm running: Xubuntu on my laptop (I wanted to learn some debianisms) WinXP on the family PC MacOSX on the family Macintosh Fedora on my home server (I grew up w/ RedHat/Mandrake after starting w

Re: General dependencies discussion (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/26/07, Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 2/26/07, Bayard Coolidge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What I was referring to was the quagmire of interdependencies in some > packages that make it difficult/impractical to update to new versions > conveniently. Libraries enable code re-use.

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-27 Thread Star
At this point, the subject line has become something of an in-joke, although I will concede I may be the only one "in" on it. Oh no! Actually, I should have known better than to be sipping coffee while opening this thread... Ah well, that's why there's a stack of keyboards over there... An

Re: Gentoo (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Christopher Schmidt
On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 09:04:46PM -0500, Ben Scott wrote: > On 2/26/07, Dan Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Whats scarier? vim /etc/config_file.config or kate > >/etc/config_file.config? Its not that scary, you don't need to edit many > >many config files. > > "Scary" from the point of view

Re: Gentoo (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Dan Miller
I wouldn't mind making a presentation, it can't be right away though.I could do it sometime. What other things do you want to know? I will work on a presentation, so I won't answer them via email. Dan Ben Scott wrote: On 2/26/07, Dan Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Whats scarier? vim /etc/

Re: Gentoo (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/26/07, Dan Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Whats scarier? vim /etc/config_file.config or kate /etc/config_file.config? Its not that scary, you don't need to edit many many config files. "Scary" from the point of view of P17T [1]. 1. PDOTLREBTWWLLAPACTT [2] 2. People doing ordinary task

Re: General dependencies discussion (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Nigel Stewart
Libraries enable code re-use. Now programmers don't have to continuously re-invent the wheel; they can build on the word of others. Shared libraries mean you only have to update one .so to fix a bug or security hole; you don't have to rebuild/update everything that uses it. Sounds like a win,

Re: Gentoo (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Dan Miller
On 2/26/07, Bill Mullen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: suggested in the past that something like a cross between BSD ports > and RPM might be a good solution for many problems. Something that, > with one simple command, could automatically download all the needed > source packages, configure, bui

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/26/07, Neil Joseph Schelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Why does everything have to be a flame war? Your response fits in a flame war, but not his. Actually, my response was more like a desultory, goalless rant (very similar to ESR's original post, in fact). To be a proper flame, I have t

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Neil Joseph Schelly
On Monday 26 February 2007 06:34 pm, Ben Scott wrote: > On 2/26/07, Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If esr moves to Debian and sticks with stable he won't have *these*[1] > > problems. > > You can screw up just about any system, including one running Debian > stable He made a poi

Re: The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Christopher Schmidt
On Mon, Feb 26, 2007 at 06:34:36PM -0500, Ben Scott wrote: > On 2/26/07, Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >and they don't make into testing without going through unstable for a > >while. > > I thought things only had to be in "unstable" for seven days, > without any issues being filed a

Gentoo (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/26/07, Bill Mullen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: suggested in the past that something like a cross between BSD ports > and RPM might be a good solution for many problems. Something that, > with one simple command, could automatically download all the needed > source packages, configure, build

The Debian Flamewar Strikes Back! (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Ben Scott
I discovered that my network interfaces were no longer configured. The really funky part is that I'm fairly sure that I had not run any apt-get upgrade's since the last time I booted the system into Linux, and it was working fine then. On the off chance that I had upgraded my ker

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-26 Thread Bill Mullen
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:22:06 -0500 "Ben Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In response to the source/binary discussion: > > Building from source *does* bypass a lot of problems. It has been > suggested in the past that something like a cross between BSD ports > and RPM might be a good solut

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-26 Thread Paul Lussier
"Thomas Charron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> I feel sorry for the ubuntu-devel list when he hits his first dpkg >> circular dependency. > > The dependency couldn't be met. The package maintainer screwed up, > and had it dependent on a version of a package that wasn't available. This ill

General dependencies discussion (was: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora)

2007-02-26 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/26/07, Bayard Coolidge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What I was referring to was the quagmire of interdependencies in some packages that make it difficult/impractical to update to new versions conveniently. That is another aspect to this disgusting mess. I tried building GNOME from source

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-26 Thread Bayard Coolidge
No, that's not what I was referring to as nonsensical - I do understand the legal issues around DVD thoroughly, as much as I detest them. What I was referring to was the quagmire of interdependencies in some packages that make it difficult/impractical to update to new versions conveniently. (I hav

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-26 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/26/07, Bayard Coolidge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... the last dozen or two that I've tried don't seem to do the trick, and there's no x86_64.rpm available. Good luck with that. A lot of video playback on Linux depends on ripping the libraries out of MS Windows. And since those are all

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-26 Thread Neil Joseph Schelly
On Monday 26 February 2007 09:52 am, Bayard Coolidge wrote: > I'm still trying to get DVDs to play on my x86_64-based SuSE 10.2 > system; Kaffeine complains that the DVD is encrypted, and neither it nor > VLC can make use of libdvdcss-1.2.8-2.network.i386.rpm or > libdvdcss2-1.2.9-1.i386.rpm. I sus

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-26 Thread Bayard Coolidge
nt. I don't know, and won't attempt to speculate on, ESR's specific issues with Fedora but I can understand some of his frustration. Fedora, SuSE, and the other major distros shouldn't be aimed solely at very savvy developers, but should be installable by newbies. I'm not a n

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-25 Thread Nigel Stewart
However, the "build most things from source" solution is not without issues itself. It it slower than binary packages (imagine installing the first GNOME package this way -- please wait while we build the world from source). It's largely incompatible with the world of closed-source, binary-only

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-25 Thread Ben Scott
ty your cs skills are", adoption of Linux for regular users is going to continue to be low. Actually, I suspect ESR was just pissed that his system was screwed up, and ranted in the general direction of Fedora because that's what he happened to be using. How his system got screwed up, I expect

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-25 Thread Kjel Anderson
I don't love the style of ESR's comments, but I think that maybe some folks on the list are missing his point. I believe he is trying to express that as long as installing software has anything to do with how "rusty your cs skills are", adoption of Linux for regular users is going to continue to b

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-25 Thread Jason Stephenson
Nigel Stewart wrote: Without disagreeing with your points about how open source is "supposed to work", I think doing better repo quality control would be a good direction for things to go. There doesn't seem much point in letting a repo get into a inconsistent state and letting that flow downst

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-25 Thread Nigel Stewart
For somebody whose CS isn't as rusty as mine - I think one should be able to setup a dedicated process to watch a repo and build graphs of dependencies and preemptively find this kind of breakage. Comments? Yes, you probably could, but that's what the million monkeys on the Internet are doing

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-25 Thread Jason Stephenson
d go file a bug at bugzilla.redhat.com. Granted I've had mixed success with that avenue. Were I desperate I'd grab an SRPM and edit a SPEC file. That's clearly not something most users know how to do. Fedora is not aimed at "most users." Fedora is not meant to be

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-24 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/24/07, Bill McGonigle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Feb 24, 2007, at 10:02, Thomas Charron wrote: > The dependency couldn't be met. The package maintainer screwed up, > and had it dependent on a version of a package that wasn't available. Ah, OK, thanks for the correction. Still, if I hit

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-24 Thread Nigel Stewart
switching to Ubuntu. I recently switched from Fedora Core to Kubuntu, and so far, so good. I couldn't agree more about the stagnation of rpm. For quite a while I've felt that there souldn't actually be a need to extract all the files into the filesystem. It ought to be a matter

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-24 Thread Bill McGonigle
On Feb 24, 2007, at 10:02, Thomas Charron wrote: The dependency couldn't be met. The package maintainer screwed up, and had it dependent on a version of a package that wasn't available. Ah, OK, thanks for the correction. Still, if I hit that problem I'd go file a bug at bugzilla.redhat.co

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-24 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/23/07, Bill McGonigle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My translation: "I couldn't figure out a dependency so I went deleting system packages without knowing or checking what the consequences would be and I didn't know how to recover from that point. That's terribly embarrassing, but rather than

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-23 Thread Bill McGonigle
My translation: "I couldn't figure out a dependency so I went deleting system packages without knowing or checking what the consequences would be and I didn't know how to recover from that point. That's terribly embarrassing, but rather than ask for advice or autodopeslap, I'll make a big

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-23 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
Jerry, > It is also interesting that the Huffman algorithm was published in a > number of computer science books and was originally published in 1952. As you know, publication of the algorithm has nothing to do with the protection of a patent as long as it was done after the patent was taken. L

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-23 Thread Jerry Feldman
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:31:33 -0500 "Jon 'maddog' Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It's friggen insane that they're choosing to enforce the patent NOW, > > after so many years. > > > > No, I call it the "Unisys theory". > > Many years ago Hoffman encoding was used for the AT&T pack(1) c

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/22/07, Thomas Charron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Oh, please. Do you really think Thomson is going to agree to license for perpetual unlimited distribution to other parties? If they did, then *everyone else* could use the same license, and their *entire revenue stream* from MP3 would evap

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
> It's friggen insane that they're choosing to enforce the patent NOW, > after so many years. > No, I call it the "Unisys theory". Many years ago Hoffman encoding was used for the AT&T pack(1) command. AT&T used it, BSD used it, Sun used it, etc. and it had been published in many books. It

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
> Some of > which are local in Massachusetts and are, needless to say, very large. > Yes, and right now I would think they are shaking in their boots. The good news is that the Alcatel/Lucent vs MS battle seems as much a grudge match as a revenue stream at this point. >Alcatel-Lucent's Ambrus d

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/22/07, Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 2/22/07, Thomas Charron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html > 50,000$ one time up front fee, and they can solve the issue of an > Open Source MP3 player. For everyone. Oh, please. Do you really th

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
> 50,000$ one time up front fee, and they can solve the issue of an > Open Source MP3 player. For everyone. > It was inadvertent that my news article about the $1.5 billion dollar settlement on MP3 technology crossed your email about mp3 licensing, but I did want to point out that I do not thi

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/22/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Speaking of MP3s and "being sued to smithereens". http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6161480.html?tag=nl.e589 And it could not have happened to nicer people... QQ Thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of that particular news article. I

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/22/07, Thomas Charron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html 50,000$ one time up front fee, and they can solve the issue of an Open Source MP3 player. For everyone. Oh, please. Do you really think Thomson is going to agree to license for perpetua

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 17:21 -0500, Ben Scott wrote: > On 2/22/07, Thomas Charron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And be able to do some core desktop features. Like say.. Play MP3 > > files.. :-D > > In order for Red Hat (or the "Fedora Project"; I'

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/22/07, Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 2/22/07, Thomas Charron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And be able to do some core desktop features. Like say.. Play MP3 > files.. :-D In order for Red Hat (or the "Fedora Project"; I'm not sure about l

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/22/07, Thomas Charron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And be able to do some core desktop features. Like say.. Play MP3 files.. :-D In order for Red Hat (or the "Fedora Project"; I'm not sure about legal status there) to include MP3 support in their distribution, th

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Thomas Charron
r than blank denial. Fedora as a distribution has stayed pretty "pure" with respect to not shipping what is defined by them to be "free". Other distributions have been a little less restrictive in this sense, and this causes these distributions to be somewhat easier to install

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
roprietary multimedia formats with any attitude other than blank denial. Fedora as a distribution has stayed pretty "pure" with respect to not shipping what is defined by them to be "free". Other distributions have been a little less restrictive in this sense, and this ca

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I find Alan to be too much like ESR to put any stock in his words. This is, afterall, the same guy that censored the kernel changelog back in 2.2.20 because he didn't like the DMCA Oh common, that was friggen hilarious! -- -- Thom

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread klussier
-- Original message -- From: "Jon 'maddog' Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I could not agree with you more, which is why I sent my email. I like reading the source. It gives it a nice context, and the humor value of the replies is worth the time. > I liked Alan Cox'

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/22/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 11:39 -0500, Thomas Charron wrote: > On 2/22/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Right up till the: > "That was said by Eric Raymond who belongs to another movement" > -

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 11:39 -0500, Thomas Charron wrote: > On 2/22/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I could not agree with you more, which is why I sent my email. > > I liked Alan Cox's response the best. > > Right up till the: > > "That was said by Eric Raymond who

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jerry Feldman
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:26:34 -0500 "Chris Linstid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Isn't this the same guy that made such a huge deal a few years ago > about getting a "phone interview offer" from Microsoft? He wrote some > offensive letter back to the recruiter saying he was an idiot for > trying t

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jerry Feldman
esponse. But, this also points out that the Linux community is a free market. If we don't like SuSE, we can chose Mandrivia, Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, or a number of distros. The free market also exists in the Windows environment, you can get any flavor of Windows as long as it is Microsoft

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Steven W. Orr
On Thursday, Feb 22nd 2007 at 10:51 -0500, quoth Ben Scott: =>On 2/22/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: =>> I prefer to read the original source from the original target: =>> www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-February/msg01006.html =

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Thomas Charron
On 2/22/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I could not agree with you more, which is why I sent my email. I liked Alan Cox's response the best. Right up till the: "That was said by Eric Raymond who belongs to another movement" - Richard Stallman N

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Chris Linstid
Chris On 2/22/07, Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 2/22/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I prefer to read the original source from the original target: > www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-February/msg01006.html His complaints s

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
I could not agree with you more, which is why I sent my email. I liked Alan Cox's response the best. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Ben Scott
On 2/22/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I prefer to read the original source from the original target: www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-February/msg01006.html His complaints seem rather vague and lacking in any kind of goal. More to the point, wh

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Kevin D. Clark
One of the responses was pretty good: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-February/msg01051.html Regards, --kevin -- GnuPG ID: B280F24E Never could stand that dog. alumni.unh.edu!kdc -- Tom Waits

Re: ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 09:29 -0500, Michael ODonnell wrote: > Eric Raymond rants: > > "After thirteen years as a loyal Red Hat and Fedora user, I reached > my limit today, when an attempt to upgrade one (1) package pitched > me into a four-hour marathon of dependency ch

ARTICLE - ESR gives up on Fedora

2007-02-22 Thread Michael ODonnell
Eric Raymond rants: "After thirteen years as a loyal Red Hat and Fedora user, I reached my limit today, when an attempt to upgrade one (1) package pitched me into a four-hour marathon of dependency chasing, at the end of which an attempt to get around a trivial file conflict rendere

Re: encountered two fedora 6 issues - underscore in host name, :*: in passwd file prevented logins

2007-01-08 Thread Ben Scott
On 1/8/07, Todd Littlefield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If I remember correctly, underscores are not allowed in names. Only a-z, 0-9 and the hyphen character are acceptable. Right. Internet names should contain only those characters, and begin and end with a letter or number (dashes in the mi

Re: encountered two fedora 6 issues - underscore in host name, :*: in passwd file prevented logins

2007-01-08 Thread Todd Littlefield
If I remember correctly, underscores are not allowed in names. Only a-z, 0-9 and the hyphen character are acceptable. I can't quote the RFC, but someone here probably can ;-) Python wrote: (For Your Information - it may save you some grief) amanda would not backup my laptop. There were no u

encountered two fedora 6 issues - underscore in host name, :*: in passwd file prevented logins

2007-01-08 Thread Python
(For Your Information - it may save you some grief) amanda would not backup my laptop. There were no useful error messages in the amanda log. I finally ran tcpdump to monitor the chit-chat and discovered that reverse lookup for my LAN (192.168.0.x) numbers was not working. host 192.168.0.5 Ho

Re: errors using yum to install from fedora (5) core repositories

2006-08-08 Thread Python
On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 11:27 -0400, Ben Scott wrote: > On 8/4/06, Python <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've been unable to to install packages from the fedora core > > repositories (and mirrors). > > FWIW, I booted my FC5 install, and yum Worked For Me(TM).

Re: errors using yum to install from fedora (5) core repositories

2006-08-08 Thread Ben Scott
On 8/4/06, Python <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've been unable to to install packages from the fedora core repositories (and mirrors). FWIW, I booted my FC5 install, and yum Worked For Me(TM). The fedora-core.repo file does contain a URL that looks like the URL that was giving

errors using yum to install from fedora (5) core repositories

2006-08-04 Thread Python
I've been unable to to install packages from the fedora core repositories (and mirrors). Here's an example of what happens: # yum install hexedit http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/i386/os/RPMS/hexedit-1.2.12-3.2.i386.rpm: [Errno -1] Header is not complete. Tr

Re: Fedora Core 5 Firewall

2006-06-19 Thread Neil Joseph Schelly
Any shot you could email us the output of "iptables -L" with the firewall on? -N On Saturday 17 June 2006 03:30 pm, Glenn Shaw wrote: > I have been setting up Synergy on a computer running FC5. With the > firewall disabled is works OK and sees the Server. When I restore the > firewall it says it

Fedora Core 5 Firewall

2006-06-17 Thread Glenn Shaw
I have been setting up Synergy on a computer running FC5. With the firewall disabled is works OK and sees the Server. When I restore the firewall it says it can not see the server and connect with it. I have port 24800 entered as a trusted service. I tried rebooting after making the firewal

LinkStation, CIFS and Fedora Core 5 - how to mount

2006-03-29 Thread Jeff Macdonald
Hi all, This week I got a Buffalo LinkStation Home Server, which is basically a NAS type device that exports a SMB mount point. I have a Fedora Core 3 system which is able to mount the device using smbmount but is unable to write more than 2G to it. At first I thought this was a LinkStation issue

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-24 Thread Bill Freeman
> port, so that might be a good idea. I'm comming back to my original theme. FC5 install can't access the files using http, but konqueror on knoppix has no trouble. It's hard to believe that Fedora team didn't test the net install at all, so perhaps it has so

Re: FTP, proxies, firewalls (was: Fedora ftp install without a name server?)

2006-03-23 Thread Bill Freeman
Jason Stephenson writes: > ... It must have something to do with that machine having an AT > keyboard port and I'm using an AT/PS-2 adapter to connect it to the > KVM.) At keyboard and PS/2 keyboard use the same electrical and signalling protocol. An adapter is just connectors and wir

Re: FTP, proxies, firewalls (was: Fedora ftp install without a name server?)

2006-03-23 Thread Jason Stephenson
Ben Scott wrote: Perhaps, an upgrade or a switch to a different firewall software is in order. What are you using now? Currently, it is a relatively old release of IP Filter (ipf) from http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~avalon/ that was hacked up by the OpenBSD folks before the licensing "clarif

FTP, proxies, firewalls (was: Fedora ftp install without a name server?)

2006-03-23 Thread Ben Scott
On 3/23/06, John Abreau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a minor nit; PASV mode wasn't invented to deal with firewalls; if I > recall correctly, it was part of the ftp spec early on, and its intended > purpose was for server-to-server transfers. Ah. Interesting. I stand corrected. On 3/23/06

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread Jason Stephenson
n't working. Perhaps, an upgrade or a switch to a different firewall software is in order. I seem to recall FTP proxy working properly when I used ipfw. Sorry, I didn't add much to help the OP. I've never tried a Fedora FTP install. I've done it with Slackware, OpenBSD an

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread John Abreau
Ben Scott wrote: Since that obviously sucks for any number of reasons, passive mode was created. PASV has the *server* listen on an ephemeral port, which it tells the client about. The client then connects to that port for the data channel. Just a minor nit; PASV mode wasn't invented to dea

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread Ben Scott
On 3/23/06, Bill Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It was a good try. With the subnetword temporarily isolated > from the rest of the world, and the server firewall disabled, I could > ftp from knoppix in passive mode, including data connections ... Woo who! > ... but FC5 installer

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread Bill Freeman
Ben Scott writes: > On 3/23/06, Bill Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > An interesting additional data point is that if I tell the ftp > > client on Knoppix to use passive mode, then I can no longer do > > transfers. > > Ah-ha! I, too, suspect the cause of that problem is also causing

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread Ben Scott
On 3/23/06, Bill Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > An interesting additional data point is that if I tell the ftp > client on Knoppix to use passive mode, then I can no longer do > transfers. Ah-ha! I, too, suspect the cause of that problem is also causing a problem for the installer. I wou

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread Bill Freeman
Ben Scott writes: > On 3/23/06, Bill Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Both machines are on the inside side of the router, from which > > point of view I presume that it acts like a switch or hub. > > Oh. I believe you are correct, there. So much for that theory. :-/

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread Ben Scott
On 3/23/06, Bill Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Both machines are on the inside side of the router, from which > point of view I presume that it acts like a switch or hub. Oh. I believe you are correct, there. So much for that theory. :-/ -- Ben

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread Bill Freeman
Ben Scott writes: > On 3/22/06, Bill Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've got a box with the iso files on it, mounted via the loop > > back device, and vsftpd running behind my router. > > Is your router between the FTP server and the FTP client? Is the > router performing

Re: Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-23 Thread Ben Scott
an IP > address as the server "name". It has been years since I've done a Red Hat install via FTP, but back in the RHL 6.x days, a numeric IP address worked. The Google search http://www.google.com/search?q=fedora+install+ftp+%22ip+address%22 finds plenty of pages that suggest

Fedora ftp install without a name server?

2006-03-22 Thread Bill Freeman
I've made enough coasters with the name of an office supply store printed on them, so I decided to try an ftp install of Fedora 5. I've got a box with the iso files on it, mounted via the loop back device, and vsftpd running behind my router. From the target box, using

GNHLUG Major Event - Tim Burke, Director of Fedora - TUESDAY!

2006-01-21 Thread Benjamin Scott
What : Open Source Development and Productization Who : Tim Burke, Director of Fedora Project & Kernel Development at Red Hat When : Tue, 24 Jan 2006, at 5:00 PM Where: Walker Auditorium, Robert Frost Hall, SNHU This is *THIS TUESDAY*! GNHLUG regulars, please note the time! GNHLUG, NH

Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4?

2006-01-20 Thread hewitt_tech
- Original Message - From: "Ben Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "GNHLUG" Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:47 AM Subject: Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4? On 1/19/06, hewitt_tech <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I

Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4?

2006-01-20 Thread Ben Scott
On 1/20/06, hewitt_tech <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dell included some CDs with the new system but not the OpenManage Server > Administrator disk which is supposed to provide the RAID management > utilities. I've been poking around the Dell web site looking for the > required software but so far n

Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4?

2006-01-20 Thread Ben Scott
On 1/19/06, hewitt_tech <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm installing Fedora Core 4 on a Dell SC1420 server that contains a > hardware SATA RAID controller and 3 80 GB drives. So far it appears that the > hardware RAID (Dell Cerc /Adaptec) makes the 3 drives transparent to the

Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4?

2006-01-19 Thread hewitt_tech
- Original Message - From: "Neil Joseph Schelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:48 PM Subject: Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4? On Thursday 19 January 2006 07:12 pm, hewitt_tech wrote: controll

Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4?

2006-01-19 Thread hewitt_tech
on" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4? hewitt_tech wrote: I'm installing Fedora Core 4 on a Dell SC1420 server that contains a hardware SATA RAID controller and 3 80 GB drives. So far it appears th

Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4?

2006-01-19 Thread Neil Joseph Schelly
On Thursday 19 January 2006 07:12 pm, hewitt_tech wrote: > controlled from the BIOS. Anyone know of any problems setting up a system > this way? I know that's easily the best way to do it, keeping proprietary drivers are far away from the OS as possible. With the "single" effectively just being

Re: Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4?

2006-01-19 Thread Martin Ekendahl
hewitt_tech wrote: I'm installing Fedora Core 4 on a Dell SC1420 server that contains a hardware SATA RAID controller and 3 80 GB drives. So far it appears that the hardware RAID (Dell Cerc /Adaptec) makes the 3 drives transparent to the OS. That is Linux just saw an ~148 GB driv

Are there problems using hardware RAID with Redhat Fedora Core 4?

2006-01-19 Thread hewitt_tech
I'm installing Fedora Core 4 on a Dell SC1420 server that contains a hardware SATA RAID controller and 3 80 GB drives. So far it appears that the hardware RAID (Dell Cerc /Adaptec) makes the 3 drives transparent to the OS. That is Linux just saw an ~148 GB drive and installed on it wi

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