Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 08/09/11 12:08, Sam Geeraerts wrote: Joshua Ismael Haase Hernández wrote: I think we should consider using the term «libre software» wich is unambiguous. It has been considered, ref. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html. This is what it says: Unfortunately, a

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Joshua Ismael Haase Hernández wrote: I think we should consider using the term «libre software» wich is unambiguous. It has been considered, ref. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html.

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 07/09/11 20:27, Joshua Ismael Haase Hernández wrote: I think we should consider using the term «libre software» wich is unambiguous. I think it is necessary in english but needless in other languages because the meaning is clearer. Advocating the word is very important because it takes t

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

I think we should consider using the term «libre software» wich is unambiguous. 2011/8/21 Henry Jensen > Hello Sam, > > On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:00:22 +0200 > Sam Geeraerts wrote: > > > In any case, it's clear that using the term "free software" over "open > > source" should be encouraged within

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 07/09/11 04:09, Henry Jensen wrote: On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:04:04 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: This is exactly what FSFE representatives are telling. No. The previous expressions said there was no diference between opensource and the Free Software movement. This expresses they are diferent

[GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

> That is not my experience. Most people who made a conscious > technical decision for "open source" can be told that free software > is more than technical advantage, that it also include ethical values. > In fact, most people come to free software for technical reasons in the > first place. I m

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 14:04:04 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: > > This is exactly what FSFE representatives are telling. > > No. The previous expressions said there was no diference between > opensource and the Free Software movement. This expresses they are diferent. No, FSFE never said that the

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 06/09/11 13:23, Henry Jensen wrote: On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 11:36:23 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: I suggest you regard official FSFE's positions from their website in: https://fsfe.org/about/basics/freesoftware https://fsfe.org/documents/whyfs-howto And disregard previous statements from FSFE o

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On Tue, 06 Sep 2011 11:36:23 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: > I suggest you regard official FSFE's positions from their website in: > https://fsfe.org/about/basics/freesoftware > https://fsfe.org/documents/whyfs-howto > And disregard previous statements from FSFE officers that present very > diffe

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 30/08/11 14:44, Henry Jensen wrote: On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:55:45 +0100 Michael Dorrington wrote: I am in the UK and I understand the difference so it isn't only America. And I am fairly sure that LibrePlanet Italia understands the difference http://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlanetItalia . T

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 30/08/11 14:44, Henry Jensen wrote: On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:55:45 +0100 Michael Dorrington wrote: I am in the UK and I understand the difference so it isn't only America. And I am fairly sure that LibrePlanet Italia understands the difference http://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlanetItalia . T

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 30/08/11 20:44, Henry Jensen wrote: > On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:55:45 +0100 > Michael Dorrington wrote: > >> I am in the UK and I understand the difference so it isn't only America. >> And I am fairly sure that LibrePlanet Italia understands the difference >> http://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlan

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Dear Henry Jensen: I find that your misunderstanding is because the permanent opensource position to minimize our position which has made many people believe that we just want to fight over non trascendental issues. It is an important issue for us and if we are to work together with open sourc

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 28/08/11 21:19, Henry Jensen wrote: > Hi Quiliro, > > On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:11:51 -0500 > Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: > >> Richard said he is discussing this issue with FSFE. FSF does not support >> that position. In fact, FSF regards opensource software as something >> good but the opensource

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:55:45 +0100 Michael Dorrington wrote: > I am in the UK and I understand the difference so it isn't only America. > And I am fairly sure that LibrePlanet Italia understands the difference > http://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlanetItalia . The terms are only > interchangeable

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hi Quiliro, On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:11:51 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: > Richard said he is discussing this issue with FSFE. FSF does not support > that position. In fact, FSF regards opensource software as something > good but the opensource ideas as bad. It sounds contradictory but it > isn'

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 20/08/11 04:52, Henry Jensen wrote: On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:03:48 + Ineiev wrote: Anyway, I think this discussion is a little off-topic on this list. It is being discussed whether a free distribution may want to represent itself as Open Source. I think there is a misunderstanding. Conn

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 23/08/11 03:42, Henry Jensen wrote: On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 21:59:46 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: At http://www.fsf.org/working-together/gang/ the FSF even endorses FreeBSD, which is known to have proprietary software in their ports. (personally I think, FreeBSD shouldn't be listed there. If th

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 21:59:46 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: > >> At http://www.fsf.org/working-together/gang/ the FSF even endorses > >> FreeBSD, which is known to have proprietary software in their ports. > >> (personally I think, FreeBSD shouldn't be listed there. If they must > >> list a BSD sys

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

At http://www.fsf.org/working-together/gang/ the FSF even endorses FreeBSD, which is known to have proprietary software in their ports. (personally I think, FreeBSD shouldn't be listed there. If they must list a BSD system it should be OpenBSD, which has, in contrast to FreeBSD, an explicit fr

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 22/08/11 16:01, Henry Jensen wrote: Hello Quiliro, Hi :-) On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:19:50 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: It is OK to use the terms in a positive way but not to be distracted from the issue of freedom. A position more according to FSF and in the positive sense as you propose

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hello Quiliro, On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:19:50 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: > It is OK to use the terms in a positive way but not to be distracted > from the issue of freedom. A position more according to FSF and in the > positive sense as you propose would be: "Use ONLY free software to be in >

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 22/08/11 09:48, Henry Jensen wrote: Hi Quiliro, On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 07:57:10 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: I don't see where the problem is to erradicate things that do bad such as hunger, infant death and user subjugating software. The problem is the attitude. I can propagate my message

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Quiliro Ordóñez wrote > The point is: If you seek FSFs endorsement for ConnochaetOS, I would > think that you agree with their philisophy and not with OSI's Er; is't actually: Exactly! :) > For example, if I tell someone who is unfamiliar with free software > "With ope

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hi Quiliro, On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 07:57:10 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: >I don't see where the problem is to erradicate >things that do bad such as hunger, infant death and user subjugating >software. The problem is the attitude. I can propagate my message in a positive style ("Use free softwa

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 22/08/11 03:25, Henry Jensen wrote: Hello, :-) On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:44:23 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: Open source philosophy proposes to use open source software as much as possible. And where it is not possible it proposes to use proprietary software as long as this is better for t

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hello, On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:44:23 -0500 Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: > Open source philosophy proposes to use open source software as much as > possible. And where it is not possible it proposes to use proprietary > software as long as this is better for the development model. That is not true in

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hello, I have revised http://www.connochaetos.org/wiki/fully_free_-_what_does_it_mean, so that it should be clarified now what we mean and what we talk about. In the end, I think, we all mean the same. But there are some cultural differences which may lead people to choose other wordings. For

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

I agree that it is good to encourage the term "free software" over "open source". But I still don't think that this is a crucial point. Like you said, many say "open source" when they mean "free software". I admit, sometimes I use the term "open source" as well in discussions when I speak with

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Dear Richard Stallman. Will you please tell us your position and the position of FSF about the following issue? It is important to have an official position and not someone else's opinion about it. I think this will ease ConnochaetOS' approval as an FSF endorsed distro. Thank you very much.

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Henry Jensen wrote: On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:00:22 +0200 Sam Geeraerts wrote: In any case, it's clear that using the term "free software" over "open source" should be encouraged within FSDG distro communities. I think it's not necessary to make an FSDG rule for this, but that it's an indicator

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hello Sam, On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:00:22 +0200 Sam Geeraerts wrote: > In any case, it's clear that using the term "free software" over "open > source" should be encouraged within FSDG distro communities. I think > it's not necessary to make an FSDG rule for this, but that it's an > indicator o

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Henry Jensen wrote: So, now you are saying that FSF and FSFE are have different positions on this matter. I think both FSF and FSFE are of the opinion that "free software" and "open source" mean different (though not hugely different) things for people who know what they're talking about, but

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hello Jason, On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:09:14 -0700 (PDT) "Jason Self" wrote: > Henry Jensen wrote: > > So "free software" and "open source" are considered as the same > > community at the FSFE. > > But ConnochaetOS isn't requesting an endorsement from FSFE. Well, I know they are independent organ

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Thanks, I have removed that. On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 15:26:52 +0200 Sam Geeraerts wrote: > The explanation about booting with a floppy [1] recommends the Plop boot > manager, which is non-free. Excerpt from the License section on its > website: "The programs are NOT free to use for commercial use

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Henry Jensen wrote: > So "free software" and "open source" are considered as the same > community at the FSFE. But ConnochaetOS isn't requesting an endorsement from FSFE. Sam Geeraerts wrote: > The explanation about booting with a floppy [1] recommends the Plop boot > manager, which is non-free.

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

The explanation about booting with a floppy [1] recommends the Plop boot manager, which is non-free. Excerpt from the License section on its website: "The programs are NOT free to use for commercial use.". [1] http://www.connochaetos.org/wiki/other_methods_of_installation

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:03:48 + Ineiev wrote: > > Anyway, I think this discussion is a little off-topic on this list. > > It is being discussed whether a free distribution may want to represent itself > as Open Source. I think there is a misunderstanding. ConnochaetOS, as far as I as the mai

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

On 08/18/2011 07:27 AM, Henry Jensen wrote: > I pointed him to the document at > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html. He > suggested, that this document is outdated, implying that it is not > valid any more. He must have been mistaken: that article is the second highes

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hi Ruben, On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 04:03:34 +0200 Rubén Rodríguez wrote: > Even if you found individuals involved with the FSFE who believe that > Free Software and Open Source are the same movements, that is not the > FSFE position: http://fsfe.org/documents/whyfs.html > > You may also find people

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

> BTW: I recently had a discussion on this one with some people from the > Free Software Foundation Europe, the FSF's sister organization in > Europe. Many people at the FSFE have a different point of view on > this. > > They prefer the term "free software" as well, but they believe that > "open

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Congratulations! I think that it is a great effort and that you are on the path to being a unique libre distro. BTW: I recently had a discussion on this one with some people from the Free Software Foundation Europe, the FSF's sister organization in Europe. Many people at the FSFE have a differ

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

Hello Jason, On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:24:43 -0700 (PDT) "Jason Self" wrote: Thanks for your remarks. You mentioned mainly some poor wordings at the web site. I am with you on this, but not all members of our community are very familiar with the appropriate wording. However, the wording it is not

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

I noticed that the website makes several references to ConnochaetOS as a "Linux" distribution, rather than GNU/Linux. One example is here [1] but there are others. Also, is suggesting that people change their kernel to one with proprietary software something that should be suggested [2], even w

[GNU-linux-libre] Request for Endorsement for ConnochaetOS

ConnochaetOS is a fully free/libre GNU/Linux operating system for the desktop with old computers in mind, but with modern software. ConnochaetOS contains only free software, according to the GNU Guidelines for Free System Distributions. We have been added to the "incoming distros" list at librelan