Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 08:36:52 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
After all his postings on this subject I see Mario Goveia running away!!!
Mario responds:
Dr. Barad,
We have already established that you often do not understand what is being
written in a thread before you respond, sometimes with
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:57:13 -0500
From: MD
> He will say, on the issue of bush thrown shoes at, which is the worst of
> insults in the many of the religions, he will argue, if the shoe was
> thrown at Saddam, he would have been summarily executed (meaning Iraq is
> a democratic country now
This is in reply to Message: 1, Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 From: Mario Goveia
under Subject: The Right to Convert. After all his postings on this subject
I see Mario Goveia running away!!!
The writer writes while running: Since you have caught the bull by the tail
in your response to Selma's hypoth
From: "julian Gonsalves"
I am shocked, saddened and very bothered by these exchanges between Barad
and Fr Ivo.
***To correct misunderstandings on religion and conversions is not to "stoop
so low".
I cant imagine that whatever religion we are we can stoop so
low.
***You must be used to hear w
The Right to Convert
Fri Dec 26 13:57:13 PST 2008
By MD.
Hi,
Maurice D'Mello's article above (which I do not wish to repeat) is brilliantly
written.
The question to be asked is - has it or will it suffice to convince some, 'the
great big thinkers on goanet?'.
They say there is shor
I am shocked, saddened and very bothered by these exchanges between Barad
and Fr Ivo. I cant imagine that whatever religion we are we can stoop so
low. I think its time to get out and look within our communities to do
something more meaningful to do than to be taking pot shots at each other in
There are historical records of commercial trading between Kerala and Middle
East during 7th Century AD. The Jews and Arabs of the Pre-Islamic period
were among the pioneers of spice trade with Kerala. It is believed that
Apostle of Jesus, St. Thomas himself, introduced Christianity in India in
the
I am extremely sorry I can't understand this M.Govea, who just wants to
raise some controversy over every subject some one else is discussing. I am
sorry to butt in, but time and again, despite proven evidence, this guy
seems to disagree with everyone but his foregone conclusions. He will say,
on
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:12:12 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
Only request to the writer is don't run away from
the track which is his specialty!!
Mario responds:
Dr. Barad,
Here is the answer to your questions:
Selma's post:
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-December/
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 13:00:51 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
I suspect from your using the word - codswallop - that you are a member of
Wikipedia trying to define codswallop or your are trying to divert the
attention of Goans to Wikipedia or you are deliberately using this word for
you have no a
--- On Wed, 12/24/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote:
>
> Missionaries came to India and Goa and changed the face by
> providing Gospel values.
>
Did people who lived in India and Goa before the missionaries came not have a
decent face? Did they not have good values?
Cheers,
Santosh
--- From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
4) How Christianity got spread in Goa after Portuguese started ruling Goa?
Reply from GL
Those who have followed my writings, know that I have been intrigued by the
above question. Recently on a visit to Miami, Florida, I met a Catholic fami
This message is in reply to message: 8, dated: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 on the
subject: The Right to Convert
The writer responds: Dr. Barad,
Your responses on this topic on Goanet have been nothing but codswallop.
My response: Writer did not answer any of my messages / responses on this
topic /
This message is in reply to message: 8, dated: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 on the
subject tiled: The Right to Convert
To my response, Mario replies: Dr. Barad,
Your responses on this topic on Goanet have been nothing but codswallop.
My response: Not that I am running away from main topic . I am on
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
Under subject mentioned as in above, Fr. Ivo C da Souza, on Sat, 12/20/08,
makes a good point saying: There have been cases of conversion "by force"
in
the 16th century, but that was never an official policy of the European
missionaries who worked in India. The First Pro
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:57:24 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
You had no answer(s) to my responses to Goanet.
Mario responds:
Dr. Barad,
Your responses on this topic on Goanet have been nothing but codswallop.
As anyone can see from the following post by Selma and your response, you
clearly
Selma wrote:
>
> There cannot be a "sinister and subversive" plot when people have a
> power to say no.
>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:24:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Vinay Natekar
There is a provision in our Constitutional which gives one right to practice or
propagate any religion. There is a right als
The right to convert
Thanks Selma for missing me on Goanet. Should I construe it as love or
hate Anyway your penchant for conjuring up bizarre examples to buttress
your points are amazing. In contradiction of reality, the above
examples wouldn't come close to being reasonable unless Hindus a
Yes it did and i was born 7 centuries ago a catholic and i also knew someone
who was a catholic and would pose similar questions then, inbetween i have
been born a hindu 5 times (do believe the reincarnation theory) and now i am
a Catholic again. But that guy is born hindu NOW and pose the same
Dear Editor,
Religions entered this part of our continent from north-west and
by sea.The inhabitants here practiced traditional ways of living.
There were no religions.Nature was worshipped.Then came the entry
of warriors,calling the inhabitants "HINDU" as they crossed river
"SINDHU",wi
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:33:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Carvalho
Hurray. Viva la India.
Mario asks incredulously:
Viva la India? VIVA LA INDIA?! Shee! Kitem mhontai, go?
Selma, you have been away from India far too long. It's been Jai Hind since
before you were born, for about 60 years now, or
This message is in reply to message: 2, dated: Mon, 22 Dec 2008, from: Mario
Goveia under subject titled: The Right to Convert
Mario writes: Dr. Barad,
I have good news for you. The Bush administration, which BTW has only been
in power since 2001 and has had their hands full in converting 50 mil
Under subject mentioned as in above, Fr. Ivo C da Souza, on Sat, 12/20/08,
makes a good point saying: There have been cases of conversion "by force" in
the 16th century, but that was never an official policy of the European
missionaries who worked in India. The First Provincial Council of Goa, hel
--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Vinay Natekar wrote:
Mass conversions by the
> so-called faith healing programmes in the guise of offering
> social service, etc should be checked at root.
> Regards
> Vinay
---
Yes Vinay, right behind you mate. While we are at it let us just stop
Selma wrote : There cannot be a "sinister and subversive" plot when people have
a power to say no.
Dear Selma,
There is a provision in our Constitutional which gives one right to practice or
propagate any religion. There is a right also to ask people to convert.
However, when it comes to maint
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:39:27 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
But conversions in India, as they are happening today, are not
merely about empowering the poor. It is about a sinister and subversive
strategy, hatched in the US, backed by the Bush administration over the
years.
Mario responds:
Dr
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:37:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Carvalho
I think I am experiencing forced conversions here in the UK. Every time I am on
a bus or walking to my favourite butcher to buy mutton (Muslim butchers sell
the best mutton here), I have these Jamaican ladies who come running up to me,
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:26:10 +0530
From: "Marshall Mendonza"
I believe the Supreme Court ruling was flawed. Refer critique given below.
Excerpts:
Quote:
"And, although many legal luminaries believe that the 1977 judgment was
unconstitutional, since it has been ruled by the Apex Court, we must
--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Dr. U. G. Barad wrote:
> My response: But conversions in India, as they are
> happening today, are not
> merely about empowering the poor. It is about a sinister
> and subversive
> strategy, hatched in the US, backed by the Bush
> administration over the
> years.
This is a reply to Selma carvalho's message No: 9, dated: Sun, 21 Dec 2008
on the subject: The Right to Convert
Selma writes: Excellent post Father Ivo. We must make clear the position of
the church as it has been for a long time. There is grave misconception out
there fuelled by right-wing funda
--- On Sun, 12/21/08, Mario Goveia wrote:
> I am firmly opposed to coercing others to convert against
> their will by "force" or "fraud".
> However, in a free society that guarantees freedom of
> religion, every individual must have the right to
> voluntarily change their religion at any tim
Sandeep:
"There is no such thing as a fundamental right to convert any person to
one's own religion and the government can impose certain restrictions
keeping in view public order, the Supreme Court has ruled.The court's ruling
came while dismissing a petition challenging an Orissa law requiring po
--- On Sat, 20/12/08, Dr. U. G. Barad wrote:
Selma Carvalho on subject: The Right to Convert
> Selma, Right to convert is NOT a basic right in a civil
> society at least in India. This reply is based on following facts:
>
NASCY is telling and teaching you thus:
Do not turn around and say I a
--- On Sun, 12/21/08, J. Colaco < jc> wrote:
>
>The way the opponents of the Orissa Act argued the case, I submit, would
>>have given the "Christians" special privileges which would would violate >the
>principle of equality.
>
Dear Josebab,
Thanks for this clarification. Phew! I agree that th
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:36:52 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
> Mario let me start my response using your first line. Mario
> please don't be ridiculous for you have not followed the thread nor have
> you followed my reply to Selma but preferred to pour in your
> intelligence.
>
> If you think
My dear Santoshbab,
It is worth noting that Courts rule on the 'issues' before them. All
the SC has stated, in this case, is that there is NO "fundamental
right to convert". I doubt such a "fundamental right" exists in any
country.
This does not make conversions illegal.
The Orissa Act (in ques
I was hoping that the Supreme court would rule that conversion was legal in all
circumstances except when physical or psychological coercion or threat was
used. But it seems it has essentially banned all conversion activity now. I
fear that this would lead to more strife in areas where conversio
--- On Sat, 12/20/08, Fr. Ivo C da Souza wrote:
> There have been cases of conversion "by
> force" in the 16th century, but that was never an
> official policy of the European missionaries who worked
> in India. The First Provincial Council of Goa, held in
> 1567, forbade the use of fo
This message is in reply to message: 11, dated: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 from: Mario
Goveia on subject: The Right to Convert
Mario responds:
Dr. Barad,
Please don't be ridiculous. Ths issue is not anyone's right to convert
someone else. The last time I checked India had what is called freedom of
relig
ble
> Subject: [Goanet] The Right to convert
> To: goa...@goanet.org
> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 9:29 AM
> Selma,
>
> Follow the news report below to know the legal position of
> this in Indi
From: "Carvalho"
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, Dr. U. G. Barad wrote:
Selma, Right to convert is NOT a basic right in a civil
society at least in
India. This reply is based on following facts:
Article 25(1) of Constitution of India guarantees
''freedom of conscience to
every citizen, and not merely t
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:51:27 +0530
From: "Dr. U. G. Barad"
Selma, Right to convert is NOT a basic right in a civil society at least in
India. This reply is based on following facts:
Article 25(1) of Constitution of India guarantees ''freedom of conscience to
every citizen, and not merely to
Selma,
Follow the news report below to know the legal position of this in India.
Cheers
Sandeep
---
Nobody has right to convert: SC
NEW DELHI: There is no such thing as a fundamental right to convert
any person to one's own religi
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, Dr. U. G. Barad wrote:
>
> My response:
>
> Selma, Right to convert is NOT a basic right in a civil
> society at least in
> India. This reply is based on following facts:
>
> Article 25(1) of Constitution of India guarantees
> ''freedom of conscience to
> every citize
This message is in reply to message: 4, dated: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 from: Selma
Carvalho on subject: The Right to Convert
My response:
Selma, Right to convert is NOT a basic right in a civil society at least in
India. This reply is based on following facts:
Article 25(1) of Constitution of India g
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, Carvalho wrote:
> From: Carvalho
> Subject: [Goanet]
> To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!"
> Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 11:38 AM
> This article appeared in the London Chaplaincy magazine,
> Contacto.
>
> The Right to Convert:
> A basic right in a civil
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