Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:
> Let's work on bike shedding [1], it is always easier and funnier ;-)
Yes, but typically inconclusive.
> DOS: DNS Outsourcing Services EDI: External DNS Infrastructure
> Or somehow more seriously: NOS: Naming Outsourcing Services NES: Naming
> Exter
The HNA MUST produce CDS/CDSKEY.
But, we have little control over whether or not the *parent zone* actually
uses CDS/CDSKEY.
We RECOMMEND that that they do (and maybe this RFC could be used as a
hammer), but it's outside of the control of the Outsourced Infrastructure
operator.
--
Mi
v6ops wrote:
> Michael Richardson wrote on 02/12/2022 02:56:
>> In re-editing I found that the section 7.1 is a bit vague about where
>> the Notifies go. Ray Hunter please comment.
>>
>>
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-homenet-front-en
Havard Eidnes wrote:
>> Hi, while editing draft-ietf-homenet-front-end-naming-delegation, it
occured
>> to me that the automatic reverse that
>> draft-ietf-homenet-naming-architecture-dhc-options could enable
>> better/simpler RFC2317 delegation for IPv4 subnets.
>>
>> My
Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:
> I would suggest to upload a clean -25 to avoid other people in the IETF
> community or in the IESG also calling idnits and complaining ;-)
I'll wait three days for other nits and post -25.
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arly in the I-D, it was asserted that HNA signs the zones,
> i.e., use MUST and plural form (or is the reverse zone not signed) ?
If there is signing, then the HNA does it, not the DM.
I've removed "also" from the early section.
We have RECOMMENDED here, yes.
Let's change tha
just a patch on RFC6125, but I see that it's a
complete replacement, so referencing both makes less sense.
As for RFC5077. I have replaced it with RFC8446 (TLS1.3), section 4.6.1, but
the reference feels less useful now.
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can do to make those who need just a bit of IPv4 (one or two
addresses) easier, while encouraging IPv6-first, is a good thing to me.
Your comments much appreciated.
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sig
ward.
There are probably some typos and some repeated words, but I hope that the
text is better.
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ssages travel over port-53, and are not protected.
That's fine, since they just cause an SOA query in the other direction, but
in the case of the HNA and DM, the only port that the HNA knows about that it
can send to is the Control Channel's port.
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.
I never liked the acronym ("DOI" means evil old ISAKMP/IKEv1 things to me),
but I never had a better term.RFC8499 has a bunch of terms, but none of
them seem to be helpful here.
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In re-editing I found that the section 7.1 is a bit vague about where the
Notifies go. Ray Hunter please comment.
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-homenet-front-end-naming-delegation-22.html#name-securing-the-synchronizatio
Since the Synchronization Channel is from the DM->HNA, it can'
more annoying than one.
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erable implementations.
2nd step (used to Draft Standard, now Internet Standard) do.
(Routing WGs sometimes have a higher standard for things that could kill the
Internet)
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Daniel Migault wrote:
> will be able to address those or clarify them. I propose you start
> mentioning what you believe are unspecified gaps that could lead to
> INTEROPERABILITY ISSUES.
I emphasize this point.
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o in this situation has many answers with different tradeoffs.
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amic Updates on a local zone. But
> perhaps what homenet
> envisions is that I give my sauna a static IP and configure some webgui on
> my CPE to add it to my "zone" ?
No, and the document explains why this is a non-starter.
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Lars Eggert via Datatracker wrote:
> this document tries to describe would see adoption, it's become very
> clear that dynamic DNS services as described in Section 4 have won out
> here. These services are far from perfect, but at least some of the
> limitations in Section 4 have b
er to scan the IPv6-LL
of a local LAN:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/YDRrY71hxhQBdMGLS-XByHS1f7I/
The other points are interesting, and I'll need to think about your
editorial suggestions about what order to present things in.
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fusion, it may be better
to make
> the intro more concise and move some of these aspects into the relevant
> sections.
It grew as a result of reviews.
you are saying we overshot, sure.
> Section 1.2 - to me this would flow better if it was its own section
after the
>
Thank you for the encourging review!
IANA sections/tables sometimes get rewritten by IANA later on.
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d have also reported that nobody in the side meeting
through that it belonged as part of the SNAC work.
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sensors in order for them to communicate: they simply
announce their state and allow the network to do its thing.
At this point, the time ran out and the group walked to the social event at
the museum.
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Sandelman Software Works Inc,
teway-Communication-sidemeeting.pdf
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-richardson-snac-building-use-case-00.html
Please feel free to forward this email!
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Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:
> As we are halfway between IETF-113 and IETF-114, it is time to make a
> check as I have seen no revised version for those 2 ‘naming’ drafts.
Yes... I think that *I* said that I wouldn't have time.
> You may also have noticed that Ted’s ‘stub networking
Michael Richardson wrote:
>> progress the stub networks draft because I've been too busy doing
>> dnssd work, but that would be an example. I'd really like to progress
>> that draft /somewhere/, and it seems a /bit/ off-topic for dnssd. It
>>
t to pursue that.
I thought that you *wanted* to go to INTAREA with this document.
I agree that it's an important document.
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t; enough interest/review can be found that way.
It's the WG's document, and the WG can abandon it if it likes.
That would require some consensus seeking discussing.
If it turns out the WG isn't interested in the document, I sure wish that the
WG had said so a year ago though.
-
s, because DDNS as described by you is done by the end-device,
which can't see the IPv4 renumber, which btw, is all those devices support.
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Stephen Farrell wrote:
> On 05/06/2021 19:46, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> Well, I'd be happy to discuss with this them again, but they'd have to
>> actually tell us what "DDNS" really is for them.
> Just to clarify: I don't think/cla
hich is buggy (it was provided
> by the major competitor of your employer) and isn't available at the
All sorts of devices can be buggy.
I don't expect to be dependent upon a buggy NAS either.
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; really is for them.
What specific solution are they talking about? Tell us the whole story,
including how the credential gets into the device.
In particular, I'd like to know if it's okay with them if an arbitrary device
in their home automatically signs up with a DDNS provider, disclosin
have to do another SHOULD/MUST audit.
Noting that RECOMMENDED ==> SHOULD.
Section 5 has "" and "XX"... which feels like maybe we forgot to do some
IANA thing. Maybe we should omit the placeholders? What does the WG think?
--
Michael Richardson. o O ( IPv6 IøT consu
ell as the DHCP option draft. If not feel free to
> provide a better alternative.
I'm okay with that, but would list "Distribution Manager" as a nice TLA
preserving of "DM"
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Sandelman Software W
Ole Troan wrote:
> Is this the same as a hidden primary name server?
That's Stealth Primary.
The DM is not a stealth primary, because it's not primary.
It hasn't got the DNSSEC signing keys, for instance.
>> On 5 May 2021, at 21:09, Michael Richardson
>&
Ted Lemon wrote:
> On May 5, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Michael Richardson
> wrote:
>> The end user might suffer slightly by having locally served reverse
>> names that are no longer connected: they should obsolete that zone
>> when they realize that thei
Ted Lemon wrote:
> On May 5, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Michael Richardson
> wrote:
>> 3) We would be happy to go with another term, but we don't want to
>> invent another term. So, if the DNS anycast operator has another
>> term, then I'd go with
m. So, if the DNS anycast operator has another term, then
I'd go with it.
> Perhaps "Primary" could be used? Or something else?
Nope, because that's confusing in the DNS space.
It's not a primary.
--
] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6
sh renumber), they would be right to think that they
legitimately control them.
(I'm still miffed that Relay Agents have to snoof to learn PD, and nobody
seems to think this a problem)
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Michael Richardson. o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
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fixed one "teh"->"the" typo, and some { missing in
the reference for DANE.
There is a lot of cut text since -12, and maybe some of it was valuable.
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si
t the on-link prefix will be preferred.
Perhaps this messes with DNS-SD discovery.
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y and I put his code through some more testing.
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the IETF.
> Title : Simple Provisioning of Public Names for Residential
Networks
> Authors : Daniel Migault
> Ralf Weber
> Michael Richardson
> Ray Hunter
> Chris Griffiths
> Wouter Cloetens
> Filename: draft-ietf-home
IPv4 in them keep all the IPv4 ARP
multicast traffic away from the wireless media?
[Big Yellow Coax Cable-1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_tap#/media/File:VampireTap.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE5
[Small Grey Coax Cable-2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1
Stephen Farrell wrote:
>> Stephen Farrell wrote:
>>
>> > On 29/09/2020 19:41, Michael Richardson wrote: >> It will be good if
>> we can get a document from the MAC randomization >> proponents (if
>> there is such a group
Stephen Farrell wrote:
> On 29/09/2020 19:41, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> It will be good if we can get a document from the MAC randomization
>> proponents (if there is such a group), to explain the thread profile.
>> I don't think it include
domization
proponents (if there is such a group), to explain the thread profile.
I don't think it includes active compromised hosts.
Such hosts can also ARP/ND spoof, and can even do that for the router (".1"),
capturing all the traffic on the network.
--
Michael Richardson.
C addresses negates a lot
> of the benefits of randomized MAC addresses,
This assumes that a single observer can observe both at the same time.
WEP++ leaves MAC addresses visible, but encrypts the rest of L3 content.
--
] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mes
MAC address is outside of the WEP encryption, so it is always seen, even
if the traffic is otherwise encrypted.
An EAP-*TLS based upon TLS1.2 would reveal the identity, at least the first
time. Perhaps this is a reason to support resumption tokens in EAP-TLS!
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, but were wrong?
I heard about this change from Tiru Reddy.
It would be great if this BOF elicited public statements and/or public policies
about
Google and Apple's intentions in this space. If it's their goal to go in the
direction I outlined, then it would be good to know.
--
Mi
at it deserved wider review and excitement.
Our mailman strips off Reply-To: since we did that DMARC avoidant hack
(AFAIK), so redirecting replies only works if we all agree.
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he set-up of {whatever the BOF/WG output
> is}, after which the MAC gets changed to {something else}.
An interesting idea.
--
] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [
] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works |IoT architect [
] m...@sandelman.ca htt
device a different IP(v4), right?
If you solve persistent DHCP, then you solve those, don't you?
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Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
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Y3uzmK6I>
To: int-a...@ietf.org, captive-por...@ietf.org, homenet@ietf.org
From: Michael Richardson
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 16:34:33 -0400
This thread was started today on the INTAREA WG ML.
While I don't object to a BOF, I don't know where it goes.
What I see is that much of thi
This thread was started today on the INTAREA WG ML.
While I don't object to a BOF, I don't know where it goes.
What I see is that much of this problem needs to be resolved through
increased use of 802.1X: making WPA-Enterprise easier to use and setup,
this changing core identity from MAC Addres
otr...@employees.org wrote:
>>>> On 23 Jul 2020, at 18:58, Michael Richardson
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is very cool.
>>>> Is it written up as a specification somewhere? What is the signal
that the
>>>> device b
STARK, BARBARA H wrote:
>> From: Michael Richardson
>>
>> In the ADD WG, Barbara STARK, BARBARA H wrote:
>> > [BHS] While my ISP requires me to use the CE router they supply, I’ve
>> > never had an issue connecting that to my o
hat I'm ignorant of.
(but, I'm cynically thinking that the technology involves sending Barbara out
in a GPS equipped truck)
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he past two years
is TR-369 (UCP), which I know Barbara had a hand in. I would like to see
this work discussed more widely in the IETF.
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works|IoT architect [
Ted Lemon wrote:
> If it turns out that there is some performance benefit to making a
> port-to-port, point-to-point link for the router pair, then we can do that
> adaptively. That’s an optimization: it need not be where we start, and
indeed
> back when we were initially working
Gert Doering wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 09:54:08AM -0500, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> I thought that we wrote somewhere in RFC7368 that the Homenet router
should
>> collect as many ports as possible together into a single L2 zone.
>> I can't fin
ge. That's probably a missing configuration, but in the meantime, we
have an interesting HNCP and naming setup!
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works|IoT architect [
]
at equally well.
Announcing exclusively /128s (with L=0, so offlink) does do nice things
for wifi and mobility.
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works| network architect
CPv6-PD be supported, and we
need to explicitely signal there when HNCP is available so that we don't wind
up double allocating things, etc.
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] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [
] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works|
thing at all.
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] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [
] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works| network architect [
] m...@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/| ruby on rails[
practice?
I have never tried it, but I'm keen to.
--
] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [
] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works| network architect [
] m...@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/| ruby on rails[
t match the
> local interface MTU.
I think that the HNCP code can do this.
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On Sep 2, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
> Assuming that the prefix change is make-before-break (which we
> do not clearly know how to do on the WAN side, I think), then the web
> server should configure with the same rfc7212 IID, but a new prefix.
To
ult route? I re-read 6887 and
that was unclear. RFC7488 did not clarify for me.
How does it work if there are multiple layers of router?
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r a customer by switching
> off privacy extensions / using EUI-64 so basically giving the device a
> single address for the router gui to identify the device by.
Being able to open connections into services, particularly doing so for some
subset of the Internet (your alarm monitoring
On 2019-07-23 10:09 a.m., STARK, BARBARA H wrote:
- terminology (homenet)
- front-end naming
- SRP in homenet (assumes dnssd SRP draft)
- HNCP for external domain
- service discovery in homenet
It seems like "SRP in homenet" and "service discovery in homenet" might
be the same thing.
ices that people bring up to
"current"
--
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works| network architect [
] m...@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/| ruby on rails[
list this afternoon.
I was supposed to bring a few spare 3800s as well!
I have a bunch of small machines that can go behind routers though.
I also brought some extra TTL/USB adapters, and since I'm on the train a
bunch of tools.
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] Never tell me the odds! | ipv
had proposed Tuesday morning. I hadn't booked anything yet either.
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works|IoT architect [
] m...@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/
cific terminology for such a use of nn DNS Authorittive Server in a
> draft/doc anywhere, but i still think it is worth the effort to have a
> specific term for that.
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ed the server (ie, the router) to send email to somebody. It
Or SMS. Or a push notify, which would definitely work.
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] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [
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] m
o do some HNCP,
but in essence, this is an internal problem, and the front-end-naming
document is not about internal issues.
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m not
sure
> if it works for the special case of a home router though.
>
http://rip-van-webble.blogspot.com/2012/06/using-asymmetric-keys-for-web-joinlogin.html
> Enrollment, of course, is out of scope for webauthn, per se.
e, and it is also possible to enroll a second time, provided the
manufacturer agrees (this is both a feature and a bug)
The code is at https://github.com/CIRALabs/
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signature.a
he house owner, they click on the ones that the want to
be publically visible. (They may also apply a security policy for access,
but that's not a naming issue)
There are no passwords.
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ess is.
Many of them have griped to me that there should be a way for them to easily
give their stuff names that they can access. We've spoken at times of
building more mesh networks here, but what's the point if you can't give
things good names?
Anyway, you don't have
for a homenet to publish a public
zone to the Internet without some additional security and setup. At least,
that's my feeling at this point.
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limitations that we might be unaware
of. This in particular relates to the questions at:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/homenet/VcXftoB30feY9PlsPtvEV65JycM
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ion of zones was among the
primary design goals of the DNS system.
There is no technical reason why a RESTful cloud service could not
provide solutions to many of these problems, but this document
describes a DNS based solution.
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Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works
to ask again clearly:
1a) is it possible to authorize an AXFR transfer by SIG(0)?
1b) is it possible to authorize an SOA query by SIG(0)?
2) is anyone doing AXFR over TLS (DPRIVE)?
{3) is RFC3007 really the most recent text on dynamic DNS?}
>> On Jun 8, 2019, at 6:32 PM, Michael
system)
2) SOA query by Distribution Master by HNA.
3) AXFR by Distribution Master by HNA.
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more of a: did anyone implement this?
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ample.com->example.net, and foo.com->example.com edits
that I
should make.
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an be used for authorization, but I've never
configured that myself, or seen it in production.
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) to outsource the naming service to the Outsourcing
Infrastructure.
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) to outsource the naming service to the Outsourcing
Infrastructure.
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et code)? BTW, I'm happy to
> bring a couple of OpenWRT routers and play with whatever code others
> produce.
What we need is to do some discussions online and on-list about what exactly
we want to test. It's more than just showing up.
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Michael Richardson wrote:
> There is significant effort to isolate IoT devices on seperate L2s via
> what in the enterprise switch space is called MAC-based-VLANs. The
> only devices that "move" in such a network are the laptops and mobile
> phones, and bot
losing down
the WG was important. At least if we had one WG then there potential
scheduling conflict would reduced.
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] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works| network architect [
] m...@sandel
Tim Coote wrote:
> On 2 Apr 2019, at 17:04, Michael Richardson
> wrote:
mcr> The way for multiple routers in the house is to recognize that the IoT
mcr> gateway is the second router. It's not a second uplink.
mcr> So there are in fact three sit
ed by HNCP.
There are probably some advantages to doing that as well.
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So... who owns homenet.org then?
Whois is of course, now neutered.
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to hairpin
traffic between two wifi devices to go through the (security) gateway so that
they can't attack each other.
I, like Juliusz, think we can do this better in layer-3 with much less complex
machinery, but I'm not sure that Homenet should solve this problem itself.
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t least,
not yet.
{ps: I have the thread that the chairs started partly unread, because I
had contributed to the questions, and I wanted to let others chime before I
argued with them}
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