Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

Monday, July 10, 2023 10:29 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names) On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 09:15:00 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > >What I really want is X11 support in TSO and ISPF. > Does either TSO or ISPF.prohibit X11? I would imagine tha

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 09:15:00 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > >What I really want is X11 support in TSO and ISPF. > Does either TSO or ISPF.prohibit X11? I would imagine that an X11 client invoked by CALL, BPXBATCN, BPXWUNIX, or SYSCALL spawn would just work. Subject to port availability. A forwar

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2023 8:56 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names) (Subject: changed again. Lotsa trimming for relevance.)

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

(Subject: changed again. Lotsa trimming for relevance.) On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 09:15:00 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >I believe that you're thinking of the WorkStation Agent, which, alas, IBM has >dropped. I found it extremely useful, despite the awful limitations of >cut-and-paste. > >What I re

Re: Code Page for dataset names

metz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Joel C. Ewing [jce.ebe...@cox.net] Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2023 11:17 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Code Page for dataset names To call this "handling UTF-8 data"

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

unday, July 9, 2023 5:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names) On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 21:50:31 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Legacy bidi is a can of worms. > It saved a bunch of coding in ISPF Edit/View. Low

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 21:50:31 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Legacy bidi is a can of worms. > It saved a bunch of coding in ISPF Edit/View. Lowest Bidder effect. From: Paul Gilmartin Sent: Sunday, July 9, 2023 5:45 PM ... Otherwise, I understand that

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

Legacy bidi is a can of worms. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Sunday, July 9, 2023 5:45 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Editor (was: Code Pa

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 21:15:18 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >UTF-8 is an encoding of Unicode and the size of a character depends on its >code point. I'm not sure what you mean by a UTF-8 character. > I stand corrected. "A sequence of octets valid in UTF9." >UNIX is ASCII-based, and I'm not aware o

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

ditor (was: Code Page for dataset names) On Linux, all applications seem to support UTF-8 by default. All editors I've used on Linux appear to support editing UTF-8 documents without issues. The Gnome desktop on Linux even includes built-in support for entering arbitrary unicode charact

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

introducer, so it is only allowed in a tail. Does /u00c0 work on MacOS? From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Sunday, July 9, 2023 11:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sub

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 19:59:10 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >I see a list of languages with one anomaly: Latin appears twice, once as >"Latin" and once as לתינית, the Hebrew name for Latin. I can't read the Greek >and Cyrillic, but as best I can tell they render properly. > Thanks. After tedious f

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

ussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Sunday, July 9, 2023 11:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names) On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 09:29:06 -0500, Joel C. Ewing wrote: >... >As to the poss

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

On Sun, 9 Jul 2023 09:29:06 -0500, Joel C. Ewing wrote: >... >As to the possibility of migrating a tool like jedit to z/OS. Yeah, I've >had similar wishes as java is supposed to be portable -- but surely >that's still limited by what the Operating System supports. > I mentioned jedit because it

Re: Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

On Linux, all applications seem to support UTF-8 by default.  All editors I've used on Linux appear to support editing UTF-8 documents without issues.  The Gnome desktop on Linux even includes built-in support for entering arbitrary unicode characters that lack a keyboard map, using Ctrl+Alt+u

Editor (was: Code Page for dataset names)

On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 10:17:03 -0500, Joel C. Ewing > wrote: >... >There are so many useful glyphs available in UTF-8 that aren't in any >current 3270 terminal CCSID and which can't be in any 3270 terminal >CCSID without throwing out some other characters.   it's a shame if ISPF >is still insepara

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 10:17:03 -0500, Joel C. Ewing wrote: >... >There are so many useful glyphs available in UTF-8 that aren't in any >current 3270 terminal CCSID and which can't be in any 3270 terminal >CCSID without throwing out some other characters.   it's a shame if ISPF >is still inseparab

Re: Code Page for dataset names

There is a new ISPF app that runs on zosmf. It's not perfect, but then, it's not that bad either... I'd say it's better than the old Windows GUI that ISPF provided. Irregardless, when I have work to be done, I use TN3270 (Vista, for the record). sas On Sat, Jul 8, 2023 at 11:23 AM Joel C. Ewin

Re: Code Page for dataset names

To call this "handling UTF-8 data" is being overly generous.   If the UTF-8 data contains more unique characters that can fit within the limited number of characters of any 3270 terminal codeset, then you are obviously SOL, in that you couldn't even invent a new terminal codeset that could be u

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Hi In the danish codepage (277) $#@ is ÅÆØ. They can be used in dataset/member names, but we try to avoid to do it. ISR$PRIM shows up as ISRØPRIM in my emulator. They are national characters and is last in the danish alphabet so sorting is also 'fun'. And when I write shell scripts I also try

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On 7/7/2023 9:53 PM, Leonard D Woren wrote: Irrespective of the wording in the JCL manual, I think the way to look at is that there are those 3+12 code points which display the same on those code pages.  (If I'm understanding the discussion correctly. Too lazy now to go look at code pages.)  So

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/7/2023 9:34 AM: On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 15:39:52 +, kekronbekron wrote: I suppose... even if the char is different in different code pages, it is ok. Don't we just need some special char that's available in all known & used code pages? I extended Matt's test. The 3 na

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Glenn Knickerbocker wrote on 7/5/2023 3:27 PM: And then there's the weird one that wasn't on the standard 3270 keyboard: x'c0' is valid in data set names (but not catalog entries, so it can only be used in uncataloged data sets) and member names. It's a left-bracket in some pages, [...] The JCL

Re: Code Page for dataset names

I think Attila meant code page 924 On 7/7/2023 7:52 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 11:37:12 +1000, Attila Fogarasi wrote: Codepage 1047 is obsolete, superceded by 942. Since this is mainframe, it remains supported "forever". Euro did not exist at the time 1047 and 037 Submit

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 11:37:12 +1000, Attila Fogarasi wrote: >Codepage 1047 is obsolete, superceded by 942. Since this is mainframe, it >remains supported "forever". Euro did not exist at the time 1047 and 037 > Submit an R^HIdea that OMVS, HLASM, PL/I, XLC, REXX, and JCL support it; not only for

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Special = any non-alphanumeric symbol that zOS (all access methods, catalogs, etc.) is ok with. It's not necessarily for use in JCL, so doesn't need to be one among those 12. Something PDS/PDSE would accept, like the $-prefixed member names we see today. - KB --- Original Message --- On

Re: Code Page for dataset names

> > $ in US, or £ in UK code page, whether they look the same or not in hex, > > isn't the aim to find a special char that works in "all" code pages? > > There's a peculiar hazard in using the same code point to represent different > local currency symbols. > May I choose how to print my payment

Re: Code Page for dataset names

ISPF was enhanced years ago to handle both ASCII and UTF-8 data. The EU command edits the file containing UTF-8 data and converts it to the CCSID of your terminal. If the file is tagged with CCSID 1208 then the E command automatically does this UTF-8 to terminal codepage conversion. It's up to y

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 19:55:12 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote: >... >See reference to Wikipedia below .. you’re right although they refer to the >updated code page 037/0 >> >>> ...but apparently there are multiple versions of that 037. >>> >> WTF!? That makes as little sense as "multiple versions

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Admittedly I've been away from 3270 devices, real or emulated, and ISPF for over a decade now.  ISPF support for the Unix filesystem was a little rudimentary and confusing back then, partly because of conflicting codeset definitions, but how on earth is it supported these days from a full-scree

Re: Code Page for dataset names

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBCDIC Code page layout shows the invariant characters and the frequently used locations for some frequently used characters. On Fri, Jul 7, 2023 at 6:55 PM Matt Hogstrom wrote: > > Matt Hogstrom > PGP key 0F143BC1 > > >> On Jul 7, 2023, at 19:14, Paul Gilmartin > >

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Codepage 1047 is obsolete, superceded by 942. Since this is mainframe, it remains supported "forever". Euro did not exist at the time 1047 and 037 and 037-2 were created. That is one reason that 942 was created, with Euro symbol amongst other changes. My suspicion is that the tangled codepage h

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 09:37:23 +1000, Attila Fogarasi wrote: >Codepage 1047 was created to provide a bi-directional mapping to >ISO8859-1 character codes (this preserves values when going in either > That is not a valid rationale for codepage 1047. There is a bi-directional mapping between 037 and I

Re: Code Page for dataset names

The name Unix System Services came later, well after IBM obtained X/Open XPG4 certification. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Attila Fogarasi Sent: Friday, July 7, 2023 7:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Code Page for

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Matt Hogstrom PGP key 0F143BC1 >> On Jul 7, 2023, at 19:14, Paul Gilmartin >> <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: >> > On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 18:11:39 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote: > >> Speculation on my part but I think CP1047 was created in part to allow for >> square brackets

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Codepage 1047 was created to provide a bi-directional mapping to ISO8859-1 character codes (this preserves values when going in either direction). It also included most EBCDIC control codes (mapped to unused ASCII codepoints) and about half the ASCII control codes (as many as would fit). I think

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 18:11:39 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote: >Speculation on my part but I think CP1047 was created in part to allow for >square brackets given their use in new programming languages at x’AD’ = ‘[‘ >and x’BD’ = ‘]’ > >Those characters were not in 037 that I can find ... > They are in

Auto: Re: Code Page for dataset names

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Re: Code Page for dataset names

Speculation on my part but I think CP1047 was created in part to allow for square brackets given their use in new programming languages at x’AD’ = ‘[‘ and x’BD’ = ‘]’ Those characters were not in 037 that I can find but apparently there are multiple versions of that 037. I recall writing in SA

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 18:28:20 +, Pew, Curtis G wrote: > >I’d say that code pages aren’t particularly relevant to JCL processing. JCL >uses a set of byte values. Most of those byte values have a common >interpretation across many if not most of the code pages in the “EBCDIC” >family. As you

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Jul 7, 2023, at 11:34 AM, Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: I extended Matt's test. The 3 national characters plus the 12 special characters in the JCL Ref. have identical code points in 037, 500, and 1047. The Ref. doesn't mention "037" anywhere. I suspe

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Jul 7, 2023, at 1:01 PM, Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > What is "special" in this context? > I assume, . That was it. > > I suppose... even if the char is different in differ

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 18:38:36 +0200, Tony Harminc wrote: >On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 at 17:40, kekronbekron wrote: >> >> Hi Matt, >> >> $ in US, or £ in UK code page, whether they look the same or not in hex, >> isn't the aim to find a special char that works in "all" code pages? > >What is "special" in th

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 at 17:40, kekronbekron <02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Hi Matt, > > I suppose... even if the char is different in different code pages, it is ok. > Don't we just need some special char that's available in all known & used > code pages? That's the "sy

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 15:39:52 +, kekronbekron wrote: > >I suppose... even if the char is different in different code pages, it is ok. >Don't we just need some special char that's available in all known & used code >pages? > I extended Matt's test. The 3 national characters plus the 12 special ch

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Hi Matt, I suppose... even if the char is different in different code pages, it is ok. Don't we just need some special char that's available in all known & used code pages? $ in US, or £ in UK code page, whether they look the same or not in hex, isn't the aim to find a special char that works i

Re: Code Page for dataset names

The original question was posed on StackOverflow here https://stackoverflow.com/questions/76569347/what-are-the-supported-code-points-for-special-characters-for-valid-z-os-datas There is a whole set of answers (opinions) on the subject. I did some testing by creating a file in USS in CP047 wit

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 09:37:00 -0500, Tom Marchant wrote: >Under this proposal, how would SUBMIT handle characters represented in the >terminal code page that have no representation in 037? > Any of: o Fail with a clear message. o Replace them with the SUB character (a common convention) o Delete th

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Under this proposal, how would SUBMIT handle characters represented in the terminal code page that have no representation in 037? -- Tom Marchant On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 16:00:55 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >How about an RFE, I mean "Idea" that the ISPF SUBMIT command should >use that information

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Ok, let me try this: So I code some OMVS commands under //STDPARM DD * using code page 37. ISPF knows the CCSID so the data on the screen is translated to 1047 at submit time, before it gets to BPXBATCH. But, that translation could only include data in the edit session since ISPF would have

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 16:35:01 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote: >What problem are you trying to solve? > For example, regular expressions in BPXBATCH stages for various terminal types. A recurrent plaint here is, "My brackets don's work." >On 7/5/2023 2:00 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >> How about an RFE, I

Re: Code Page for dataset names

What problem are you trying to solve? On 7/5/2023 2:00 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: How about an RFE, I mean "Idea" that the ISPF SUBMIT command should use that information to convert from the terminal code page to 037? I hate EBCDIC! ---

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 14:16:27 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote: >I recently ran into a question that I didn’t know the answer to. The >question was, what code page are dataset names and other z/OS artifacts coded >in? Since the special characters like #, $ and @ are different in codepages >1047, ver

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Some compilers require special characters and use a different code page for their files than the rest of the z/OS machine. APL has a bunch of characters and PLI uses a few different characters. Is C affected? Might be fixed for compilers since the mid 1990s, but I remember someone having the pro

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 12:56:52 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote: > >When you start up ISPF it asks the terminal emulator various things, >including what code page it is running. That gets put in (at least) the >&ztermcid variable so programs can peek at it if they want. One case >I've seen is DB2 SPUFI that

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 15:00:21 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote: > >The result is that you will find that many non-US shops use non-US EBCDIC >character sets for theeir TN3270 terminals, and then they use national and >special characters for DSNAMES and symbols in JCL. The catch is that >whatever they us

Re: Code Page for dataset names

CP-037 isn't actually what is specified in "Character Sets" in the z/OS MVS JCL Reference book. It might as well be, but IBM chose a very political way to document it.In fact, "037" isn't found *anywhere* in z/OS MVS JCL Reference! The result is that you will find that many non-US shops use

Re: Code Page for dataset names

You picked 3 code pages (1047, 37, and 500) that all have the same visible characters for hex 7B, 5B, and 7C - #$@. And like John implied, anything checking for a valid dataset name is going to check for 7B, 5B, and 7C. Programs (usually) don't care what the visible character happens to look

Re: Code Page for dataset names

Sorry, I neglected to include the link. https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/sites/default/files/inline-files/690450_SA22-7832-03.pdf -- Tom Marchant On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 14:48:59 -0500, Tom Marchant wrote: >On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 14:04:55 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >>I see no difference among th

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 21:35:26 +0200, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: >... >Now we have "other z/OS artifacts". What artifacts??? >Maybe unix file names? > See 3.282 Portable Filename Character Set The set of

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 14:04:55 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >I see no difference among these/ Are there others? > >513 $ printf '#$@' | iconv -f UTF-8 -t CP1047 | od -tx1 >000 7b 5b 7c >003 >514 $ printf '#$@' | iconv -f UTF-8 -t CP037 | od -tx1 >000 7b 5b 7c >003 >515 $ printf '#$

Re: Code Page for dataset names

W dniu 05.07.2023 o 20:16, Matt Hogstrom pisze: I recently ran into a question that I didn’t know the answer to. The question was, what code page are dataset names and other z/OS artifacts coded in? Since the special characters like #, $ and @ are different in codepages 1047, versus 037, et

Re: Code Page for dataset names

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 14:16:27 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote: >I recently ran into a question that I didn’t know the answer to. The >question was, what code page are dataset names and other z/OS artifacts coded >in? Since the special characters like #, $ and @ are different in codepages >1047, ver

Re: Code Page for dataset names

All JCL is CP-037. This predates any idea of code pages in the OS. The JCL converter/interpreter only works with that encoding. On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 13:18 Matt Hogstrom wrote: > I recently ran into a question that I didn’t know the answer to. The > question was, what code page are dataset name

Code Page for dataset names

I recently ran into a question that I didn’t know the answer to. The question was, what code page are dataset names and other z/OS artifacts coded in? Since the special characters like #, $ and @ are different in codepages 1047, versus 037, etc does z/OS use one code page for these artifacts