In
,
on 07/26/2012
at 01:58 PM, John Gilmore said:
>I also grow weary of complaints about my notionally 'exotic'
>vocabulary. This term once had a precise meaning. (Signage
>annoucing efforts at 'exotic plant control' in Hawaii's state and
>national parks preserve it.) Its subliterate use h
In
,
on 07/26/2012
at 09:47 AM, David Stokes said:
>Yes, well, I'm sure Wrong! and Lol! and "are you a troll" (not to
>mention "look farther" and "are you (a) bankrobber")
Sigh! Humor is such a subjective thing. Google for sarcasm. You asked
an off the wall question ("Is that then what you a
MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Date: 07/26/2012 01:58 PM
Subject:Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
I also grow weary of complaints about my notionally 'exotic'
vocabulary. This term once had a precise meaning. (Signage annouc
Wonder the moderator has not stepped in here.
Put a cork in it.
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von John Gilmore
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. Juli 2012 19:58
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
I also grow weary of complaints about my notionally 'exotic'
vocabulary. This term once had a precise meaning. (Signage annoucing
eff
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im
> Auftrag von John Gilmore
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. Juli 2012 14:45
> An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
>
> Just as I had begun to feel some sympathy for David Stokes, he
> managed to
the surprising number of more positive of-list
communications.
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag
von John Gilmore
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. Juli 2012 14:45
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really I
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 13:38:14 +, Bill Fairchild wrote:
> Perhaps Occam was the most devious conspirator ever.
Hmmm - personally Hanlon's razor has always had (more) appeal.
Shane ...
(fortunately my tussles with the site seemed to have spared me most of this
thread)
---
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 7:45 AM
>In another context Paul Krugman recently reminded us that conspiracy theories
>are dispensable, likely to be misleading, in the many
Just as I had begun to feel some sympathy for David Stokes, he
managed to dissipate it at a stroke.
Just what does
The question was not which exact organisation decides such things, but
rather whose particular political orientation will be asserting itself
in such decisions, and how will they b
On 07/25/2012 06:07 PM, Tom Marchant wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:12:14 +, David Stokes wrote:
Otoh, without Windows, who really would have been using the Internet
Pretty much everybody who is now. Without windows they'd be running,
e.g., OS/2, MacOS, Linux.
I remember struggling to g
er in 2003."
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag
von Tom Marchant
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. Juli 2012 01:08
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012
implemented in practice.
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag
von Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. Juli 2012 00:10
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the I
james.l.campb...@irs.gov (Campbell Jay) writes:
> "The Cookoo's Egg" by Cliff Stoll
> Google it... PDF
> Damn good read.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#5 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
slightly earlier
http://en.wi
:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
sbire...@rocketsoftware.com (Steve Bireley) writes:
> About 10 years ago I was in a meeting with Vint Cerf and couple of
> others executive from Worldcom. One of our sales guys made a joke
>
hough Al's role was only legislative, I
> found it interesting that Vint Cerf gave him so much credit.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
as referenced upthread and old email, the NSFNET backbone funding was
coming out of funding f
In ,
on 07/25/2012
at 08:02 AM, "McKown, John" said:
>What, no mention of CP/M-86?
It never had enough market share; DR-DOS would be more likely.
>And you totally ignored things like the Amiga.
Did either Amiga or Atari have enough market share to count? I also
ignored NeXT, which might ha
In
,
on 07/25/2012
at 12:21 PM, David Stokes said:
>One really has to ask however what exactly
>>In an anarchic fashion that opened us up to all sorts of network abuse.
>actually means
It means not pulling the plug on abusers.
>or what the proposed "solution" would actually look like.
A
In
,
on 07/25/2012
at 04:12 PM, David Stokes said:
>Quite funny you'd say that. Now I was also around in those times. I
>remember struggling to get TCP/IP to work on OS/2 for our P/390.
Funnier than you thought; I had no trouble getting TCP/IP to work on
OS/2.
>Of course it's just so easy to
In
,
on 07/25/2012
at 12:25 PM, David Stokes said:
>< No. Starting ten years lat(t)er is your concept, not mine
>Well no, not mine. I wasn't responding to you here.
Well, you were responding to Joel C. Ewing who in turn was responding
to me, but I don't see anything in his text remotely clos
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:12:14 +, David Stokes wrote:
>>>Otoh, without Windows, who really would have been using the Internet
>
>>Pretty much everybody who is now. Without windows they'd be running,
>>e.g., OS/2, MacOS, Linux.
>
>I remember struggling to get TCP/IP to work on OS/2 for our
>P/39
lic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#98 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
majority of the internal network was vm370 ... since MVS/JES2 nodes had
to be relegated to mostly boundary nodes ... JES2 was unable to define
the complete network and had unpleasant characteristic of discarding
traffic
mostly after the issues
have become very obvious, I would tend to say.
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag
von Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juli 2012 23:51
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Go
that software. I wish now that my boss at the time
> hadn't convinced me to go with an XT clone.
re:
http:/www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#98 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
other folklore trivia from silicon valley ... long ago and far away at
some silicon valley w
John,
I agree, there seems to be no sense of responsibility.
Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
On Jul 24, 2012, at 4:09 PM, John Gilmore wrote:
> The scientific community made early and significant use of the DARPA
> predecessor of today's Internet, and almost none of the problems that
> affli
such
attempts.
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag
von Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Juli 2012 15:54
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
sto...@int
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) writes:
> What, no mention of CP/M-86? I don't think that MP/M ever had a x86
> version. I do remember running Pick on my XT clone. Now that was a
> weird beastie. And you totally ignored things like the Amiga. I loved
> what I saw of that software. I wi
rts ... but at the time, their response was they were lucky to even
get the unstructured descriptions.
earlier posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#84 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
uftrag
von McKown, John
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. Juli 2012 15:02
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Sey
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz
> (Seymour J.)
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:51 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Int
rag
von Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juli 2012 23:51
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
In
,
on 07/24/2012
at 08:00 PM, David Stokes said:
>In other words, if everything had happened ten years later we would now
t; and "oversight" we wouldn't have an Internet at all,
just some more pipes for advertising, "entertainment" and (mis)information.
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag
von Shmuel Metz (Seymour
In
,
on 07/24/2012
at 08:00 PM, David Stokes said:
>In other words, if everything had happened ten years later we would
>now be around the same point we were 10 years ago.
No. Starting ten years latter is your concept, not mine.
>No one could have foreseen the problems the Internet would bri
In
,
on 07/24/2012
at 04:09 PM, John Gilmore said:
>The scientific community made early and significant use of the
>DARPA predecessor of today's Internet, and almost none of the
>problems that afflict us today emerged during that period. There
>was no money to be made by chicanery, and lit
In <500ec8bf.5020...@acm.org>, on 07/24/2012
at 11:09 AM, "Joel C. Ewing" said:
>That certainly would have been nice, but I'm not convinced anyone
>at the time understood the potential scope of those problems,
They understood enough to warn against it, whether or not they
understood how bad
In
,
on 07/24/2012
at 12:19 PM, David Stokes said:
>Yeah, right. Much better to restrict it to government and
>corporations who never abuse things.
That's your proposal, not mine, TYVM. What would have been better
would have been a planned transition that included the same type of
oversight t
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] Im Auftrag
von Anne & Lynn Wheeler
Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Juli 2012 23:10
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
sto...@interchip.de (David Stokes) writes:
> The virus vul
2j.html#72 Bank Sues Customer Over ACH/Wire Fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#73 Is it time to consider a stand-alone
PC for online banking?
past posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
IBM is a large corporation. Different factions have been captivated by
marketing pressures since the beginning. The R&D side has always been more
forth coming. For a number of years IBM-Main was accessible via INFO-Access
under hardware. It was a mirror of BAMA.UA.EDU and for me was great way
content that could access and alter content on remote
> machines or even initiate remote programs on other machines, and put the
> integrity management burden on end users without providing any tools to
> make management possible.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crov
The scientific community made early and significant use of the DARPA
predecessor of today's Internet, and almost none of the problems that
afflict us today emerged during that period. There was no money to be
made by chicanery, and little of it therefore occurred.
Things are now very different.
: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
On 07/24/2012 06:59 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
> In <500ded13.3030...@acm.org>, on 07/23/2012
> at 07:32 PM, "Joel C. Ewing" said:
>
>> The government ARPA-net
On 07/24/2012 06:59 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
In <500ded13.3030...@acm.org>, on 07/23/2012
at 07:32 PM, "Joel C. Ewing" said:
The government ARPA-net became the Internet we know today because
Al Gore recognized its potential and pushed legislation, first in
1988 to help link univ
shmuel+...@patriot.net (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes:
> There's an error in that article and in the RSCS article; RSCS uses
> connection-oriented protocols, not connectionless protocols.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Int
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
In <500ded13.3030...@acm.org>, on 07/23/2012
at 07:32 PM, "Joel C. Ewing" said:
>The government ARPA-net became the Internet we know today because
>Al Gore recognized its potential and pushe
In <500ded13.3030...@acm.org>, on 07/23/2012
at 07:32 PM, "Joel C. Ewing" said:
>The government ARPA-net became the Internet we know today because
>Al Gore recognized its potential and pushed legislation, first in
>1988 to help link universities and libraries, and additional
>legislation in
In , on 07/23/2012
at 03:45 PM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler said:
>Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB187239639064304577539063008406518.html
The WSJ has always had better[1] journalistic standards in the news
than on the editorial pag
ormation access at the time. That's why
> Vint Cerf gives Al Gore credit.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#83 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#84 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/
ssage-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Mitch
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
you mean it wasn't Al Gore?
Mitch
-Original Messa
rdon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#84 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented
the Internet?
I was going to get something like $20M from NSFNET for NSFNET backbone
... we already had T1 and faster links running internally. Then the
budget got cut and
On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 15:57:16 -0400, Mitch wrote:
>you mean it wasn't Al Gore?
>
No, he just eponymously supplied some of the algorithms.
-- gil
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to
frame Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Mitch
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
you mean it wasn't Al Gore?
Mitch
-Original Message-
From: Anne & Lynn Wh
_http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18928858_
(http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18928858)
In a message dated 7/23/2012 2:47:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
l...@garlic.com writes:
WSJ mangles history to argue government didn't launch the Internet
--
you mean it wasn't Al Gore?
Mitch
-Original Message-
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler
To: IBM-MAIN
Sent: Mon, Jul 23, 2012 12:47 pm
Subject: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
ttp://online.wsj.co
Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB187239639064304577539063008406518.html
WSJ mangles history to argue government didn't launch the Internet
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/wsj-mangles-history-to-argue-government-didnt-launc
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