Hey Jake - let me try to explain some different ways Zowe is intended to
help a system programmer. "Is it going to act like a GUI to perform all
the system related activities?" - short answer is yes over time but don't
think of just GUI as the way to interact with z/OS.
The web user interface
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 06:35:41 -0400, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>You may
>have your favorite editor on your laptop for editing files and you don't
>like having to switch to ISPF to edit something on z/OS..
Assuming that your favorite editor is not the ISPF editor.
>via the Zowe
>command line y
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 07:20:24 -0500, Tom Marchant wrote:
>> via the Zowe command line you can stay in the laptop context
>> and Zowe will fetch a data set behind the scene, allow it to
>> be edited by your favorite editor and save back to z/OS
>> transparently.
> Will it do so while providing inte
From: Tom Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 08/24/2018 08:21 AM
Subject: Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 06:35:41 -0400, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
&g
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 10:10:45 -0400, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>Zowe (either cli or web ui) is still using your SAF access controls via
>the z/OSMF REST APIs so I will say no there is not magic file sharing
>logic in Zowe itself.
That doesn't answer the question that I asked. SAF determines
wheth
'Open Mainframe Project for sharing of code much like the smart phones have
today '
I don't think it works like anyother open-source project ? The person who
contributes or finds a solution for a bug needs to have a Mainframe, So the
number of contributor will be restricted to only those who have
: Jake Anderson
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 08/24/2018 10:34 AM
Subject:Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
'Open Mainframe Project for sharing of code much like the smart phones
have
today '
I don't think it work
marc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 08/24/2018 10:25 AM
Subject:Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 10:10:45 -0400, Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>Zowe (either cli or web ui) is still
System Z Offering Manager- zowe.org
> 4205 S MIAMI BLVD, DURHAM NC 27703-9141
> Email: armst...@us.ibm.com
> Tel: 919-254-8773
> Cell: 919-931-3132
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Tom Marchant <0000000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTS
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 11:25:57 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>The question about serialization is up to the consumer of the
>REST interface. For instance, if editing a dataset the caller
>can request that the ENQ on the dataset be held to keep
>others from editing the file.
This still doesn't ans
On 2018-08-28 16:18, Tom Marchant wrote:
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 11:25:57 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
The question about serialization is up to the consumer of the
REST interface. For instance, if editing a dataset the caller
can request that the ENQ on the dataset be held to keep
others from edit
On 29/08/2018 6:41 AM, Gord Tomlin wrote:
It would appear that the answer to your question is here:
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.izua700/IZUHPINFO_API_PutWriteDataSet.htm
Under "Custom headers":
X-IBM-Obtain-ENQ
This header is optional; set
Until your TSO session times out or is cancelled? 15 or 30 minutes or no limit?
I was once asked how to solve a problem where two users updating the
same screen ended up creating invalid keys with some data from each
screen (a base record and one record per text line). My suggestion
was to place
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 16:41:40 -0400, Gord Tomlin wrote:
>"plays well with the other children, iff requested to do so."
That is the question. Does Zowe request that it do so?
--
Tom Marchant
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff /
The whole idea of holding a lock on a file while a human being slowly edits it
is so 1960s.
Since at least the mid 1970s, editors like emacs have loaded the file for
editing and noted the timestamp. When the user attempts to save the file. the
timestamp is checked again, and if it changed, t
This is a good point. For PDS what would be ideal is that you checkout a
member and when saving it perform a diff / merge (while holding the ENQ) for a
short period of time. Not a long hold that will eventually cause issues with
ENQs that were requested and not released in a timely manner.
Ma
On 30/08/2018 12:16 AM, Jerry Callen wrote:
The whole idea of holding a lock on a file while a human being slowly edits it
is so 1960s.
Since at least the mid 1970s, editors like emacs have loaded the file for
editing and noted the timestamp. When the user attempts to save the file. the
times
Merging is not magic. Where I see the biggest risk is merging items like
IEASYS00 or other critical members where a review is needed to ensure the
system comes up versus I’ve merged code changes and are less likely to have an
impact. So, I agree with your statements below … not magic, but requ
The z/OSMF Rest files APIs just offer the same SPFEDIT ENQ support that you
get with ISPF EDIT. Makes sense to have it if you want to play in that
world, but it's use is completely optional.
It fully supports a client that wants to detect changes and merge updates
in the manners described on this
right now Zowe is using the REST API to retrieve the dataset and expose it in
an editor (No ENQ). When the user wants to save it it checks to see if the
file changed and prompts the user how they want to proceed.
Question for y’all. I would like to do a diff on the modified file and present
t
On Aug 29, 2018, at 8:20 PM, Andrew Rowley wrote:
>
> On 30/08/2018 12:16 AM, Jerry Callen wrote:
>> The whole idea of holding a lock on a file while a human being slowly edits
>> it is so 1960s.
>>
>> Since at least the mid 1970s, editors like emacs have loaded the file for
>> editing and not
> Question for y’all. I would like to do a diff on the modified file and
> present the user with the changes.
> They could REPLACE the file with the editor contents, MERGE them which would
> be something they
> would do after a review of the diff, ABANDON them or save them somewhere
> else. D
FYI - the z/OSMF REST Files PUT supports updating text files with UNIX
"diff -e" format, which I suppose is handy for updating huge files.
Mix this with the "If-Match Etag" and you have a safe way of updating using
diffs without holding SPFEDIT ENQs.
X-IBM-Data-TypeThis header is optional; use it
On 31/08/2018 3:05 AM, Jerry Callen wrote:
Of course it's possible to prevent simultaneous edits, at least to the extent
that you claim ISPF does. ISPF doesn't REALLY prevent simultaneous edits; it
relies on a convention, and you have to hope that everyone follows the
convention. That's the is
On 31/08/2018 8:21 AM, Andrew Rowley wrote:
Of course it's possible to prevent simultaneous edits, at least to
the extent that you claim ISPF does. ISPF doesn't REALLY prevent
simultaneous edits; it relies on a convention, and you have to hope
that everyone follows the convention. That's the is
On 31/08/2018 1:45 PM, David Crayford wrote:
Using a distributed VCS like Git everybody has their own copy of the
source code so there is never a case off two people updating the same
file at the same time. Conflicts are detected when pushing changes and
that's when merging kicks in.
I bet
Git detects merge conflicts and will reject push requests. Our git
repositories are in Bitbucket and we use pull requests. Nothing gets
merged into master without going through a code review. I can assure you
that the quality of our development process
has gone up exponentially with the adoption
Andrew Rowley wrote:
On 31/08/2018 3:05 AM, Jerry Callen wrote:
> Everyone has to follow the convention, and on z/OS they LARGELY do.
(Emphasis added)
I rest my case. :-)
> Source control is not a better solution, it is a solution
> to a slightly different problem
I agree "better" should be the way.
Disp=old is not the way.
Either propagate ispf edit enque or offer some sort of EASY extensible
option to add something like git to handle member changes.
Rob
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 7:53 AM Jerry Callen wrote:
> Andrew Rowley wrote:
>
> On 31/08/2018 3:05 AM
On 31/08/2018 7:52 PM, Jerry Callen wrote:
Do other platforms really use source control for everything? How many
unix systems have you encountered where /etc is under source control,
people have their own copies and merge changes into the real /etc? Any?
Not to air dirty laundry, but some places
y
-Original Message-
From: David Crayford
Sent: 31 August 2018 6:45 am
Subject: Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
On 31/08/2018 8:21 AM, Andrew Rowley wrote:
>> Of course it's possible to prevent simultaneous edits, at least to
>> the extent that you claim ISPF does.
IL)Watthey"
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Date: 09/02/2018 06:05 AM
Subject: Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Hi,
I've been reading this thread with some interest and it's easy to come up
with loads of arguments why updatin
D,+DURHAM+NC+27703&entry=gmail&source=g>
> -9141
> Email: armst...@us.ibm.com
> Tel: 919-254-8773
> Cell: 919-931-3132
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Alan(GMAIL)Watthey"
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 09/02/2018 06:05 AM
> Subject:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 06:52:57 -0500, Jerry Callen wrote:
>Andrew Rowley wrote:
>
>> When using source control you STILL need to make sure that 2 people
>> are not updating the same file at the same time - it is just the
>> window that is smaller.
>
>On z/OS you could solve that with DISP=OLD (tho
On 2018-09-04 11:08, Tom Marchant wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 06:52:57 -0500, Jerry Callen wrote:
Andrew Rowley wrote:
When using source control you STILL need to make sure that 2 people
are not updating the same file at the same time - it is just the
window that is smaller.
On z/OS you coul
This is a good discussion. Our challenge is how to move forward that doesn’t
break the old ways of doing things but actually making forward progress.
Currently Zowe will read the data, allow it to be edited and then when updating
will check to see if the file is in unchanged. If so, grab an E
On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 15:45:03 -0400, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>This is a good discussion. Our challenge is how to move forward
>that doesn’t break the old ways of doing things but actually making
>forward progress.
Indeed. I'm glad you are considering that.
>Currently Zowe will read the data, all
Hogstrom
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 3:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
This is a good discussion. Our challenge is how to move forward that doesn’t
break the old ways of doing things but actually making forward progress.
Currently Zowe will read
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 3:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
On 2018-09-04 11:08, Tom Marchant wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 06:52:57 -0500, Jerry Callen wrote:
>
>> Andrew Rowley wrote:
>>
>>> When using source control
(Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
> Matt Hogstrom
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 3:45 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Zowe for systems p
On 5/09/2018 5:31 AM, Gord Tomlin wrote:
This thread started off with a discussion regarding the use of
ISPF-style SPFEDIT ENQs for serialization. While those ENQs protect
against simultaneous updates by multiple ISPF users, they do not
protect against updates by other non-ISPF programs, such a
There is a bank I know that puts a mod on iebcopy to make it use the
spfedit enq. Works well..
Makes it so Disp=shr works for iebcopy.
IBM solution.. pdse which is a good and weird thing with enques
Rob Schramm
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, 9:01 PM Andrew Rowley
wrote:
> On 5/09/2018 5:31 AM, Gord To
On 2018-09-04 21:01, Andrew Rowley wrote:
ISPF also does a SYSDSN ENQ on the dataset.
IEBCOPY, IEBGENER etc. do not do ENQs - you write the JCL to do the ENQ.
If you are updating a dataset you are supposed to use DISP=OLD, which
will protect you against concurrent updates, including ISPF edit.
On 5/09/2018 2:03 PM, Gord Tomlin wrote:
Unlike SYSDSN, SPFEDIT is not taken care of by the system. There are
plenty of IBM and non-IBM programs that do not follow the SPFEDIT ENQ
conventions, and I don't think any product other than ISPF itself
would be APARable for failing to do so. Since it
: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
On 5/09/2018 2:03 PM, Gord Tomlin wrote:
> Unlike SYSDSN, SPFEDIT is not taken care of by the system. There are
> plenty of IBM and non-IBM programs that do not follow the SPFEDIT ENQ
> conventions, and I don't thin
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 9:56 AM Bruce Armstrong wrote:
> If you know what ISPF is and are happy with it you may not be the
> target market for Zowe. Zowe is primarily targeted for the "next gen"
> sysprog who does not have 30+ years of learning the the nuances of
> z/OS and ISPF.
Or - maybe you
Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of
Jerry Callen
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 9:56 AM Bruce Armstrong wr
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf
> of Jerry Callen
> Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:37 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Zowe for systems programmer ?
>
> On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 9:56 AM Bruce Armstrong wrote:
>
> > If
ter match the tool set or chaos will result. I'd
> > advise looking at things on a project by project basis and concentrate on
> > selecting appropriate tools for new projects rather than making
> disruptive
> > changes to old projects.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel
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