Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Original-Nachricht > Datum: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:46:42 +0200 > Von: "Risto Vääräniemi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > An: till <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > CC: lilypond-user@gnu.org > Betreff: Re: GDP: What term do you use? > On 28/02/2008, till wrote: &g

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On 28/02/2008, till wrote: > I just checked Felix Krohn again (well it is a bit outdated book but the > best I could find here in the library) and he calls it "oktaava" : Thanks, Till, for checking this up. I asked my friend but he didn't remember any special name for it - he plays piano and orga

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On 27.02.2008 (11:37), Anh Hai Trinh wrote: > On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi Eyolf, >> >>> Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed >>> trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Risto Vääräniemi-2 wrote: > > On 28/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: >> Finnish: >> Risto, you out there? I don't think anyone else can handle Finnish >> > > Present! > > I've been following the conversation with interest but I haven't used > ottava brackets myself (I mostly write only vo

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On 28/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: > Finnish: > Risto, you out there? I don't think anyone else can handle Finnish Present! I've been following the conversation with interest but I haven't used ottava brackets myself (I mostly write only vocal music *) so I don't know if they have a name

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Brett Duncan: The term "octave clefs" crops up in many places on the 'Net, An octave clef is something different than an ottava bracket. Botch indicate octavation, but while an ottav

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On 2008/02/16 12:48 PM, "Kurt Kroon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing > the list. Wow ... it's too bad no one here has any strong opinions on the matter. So, since I started the d*mn thread, I have to wrangle it back to its

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

I believe the original post asked for how it was *commonly* referred to as. My reply was either transposition or displacement. Neither one of these ways is most or exactly accurate. We should, as I've said before, fall back on the standard reference volumes for music ... those are Harvard Dictionar

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Hi Tim, it can be confusing figuring out what was meant Agreed -- we (as engravers, and composers) can reduce confusion with a little extra effort. I didn't know bass and piccolo had to do the same thing at times. Not to mention bass clarinet players, percussionists (e.g., crotales),

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

> in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as > piccolo or double bass, > the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and simply omitted as a > convenience. Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start writing ALL instruments with "transposed clefs", to

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Hi Damian, agreed, i always use the 8_clefs I will make a point of doing that from now on. (Mostly-)Rhetorical question: I wonder if clefs like "treble_5" would be appropriate for transposing instruments? but, to be fussy, don't you mean 'transposing clefs'? I do! Thanks for the reminde

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2008 schrieb Brett Duncan: > The term "octave clefs" crops up in many places on the 'Net, An octave clef is something different than an ottava bracket. Botch indicate octavation, but while an ottava bracket (e.g. 8va) applie

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Trevor Bača wrote: None of which has anything to do with ottava spanners. Or with "octavated" (caveat: not an English word) clefs. So while both an ottava spanners and an octavated clefs most certainly do effect "octave transposition" (which is absolutely the right phrase here), I would never

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Kieren MacMillan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Damian (et al): > > > semantically i completely disagree... ;--) > > Excellent! I like a good discussion... =) > > > in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as > > piccolo or double bass, > > t

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

the pragmatic 'what would i look for in the index?' approach is going to have to arbitrate here 1. I would never search for "transposition"; absolutely, i'd look for octave ottava 8va or 8vb Aside: we (all) should immediately stop doing that -- we should start writing ALL instruments

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Hi Damian (et al): semantically i completely disagree... ;--) Excellent! I like a good discussion... =) in the case of a 'transposing at the octave' instrument such as piccolo or double bass, the clef change or 8va/b sign is implied and simply omitted as a convenience. Aside: we (all)

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

semantically i completely disagree... ;--) in both cases the written pitches ARE transposed (sound) down an octave, as explicitly indicated by the 8_clef in the version, and the 8vb indication in the second. indeed, the whole raison d'etre of those indications is to show that the displayed

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Hi all, Even more to the (semantic?) point, the following two are IDENTICAL with respect to pitch: \version "2.11.37" \include "english.ly" musicClef = \relative { \clef "treble" f e d c \clef "treble_8" bf a g f } musicOct = \relative { f e d c #(set-octavat

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

I'll warn you that you'll have a very hard time convincing me. ;-) p.s. Perhaps the best way to convince me is to clarify the difference -- in terms of how it's presented in the Lilypond documentation -- between the "octave transposition" represented by \transpose c c'/c, { a b c d e f g

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On 2008-Feb-27, at 10:51, Anh Hai Trinh wrote: Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key. Octave displacement does not change the key. According to Harvard dict. of music 4th ed.: Transposition. t

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Yes, absolutely. I had suggested that earlier in the thread but then the idea came up that transposition somehow implies a change of key. It most certainly does not. And "displacement" is wholly wrong to my ears. Graphical noteheads can displace (to the left or right in the interval of a second).

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

agreed, octave transposition is what i call it - the notation is transposed d On 27 Feb 2008, at 16:37, Anh Hai Trinh wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: Hi Eyolf, Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is inde

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key. Octave displacement does not change the key. According to Harvard dict. of music 4th ed.: Transposition. the rewriting or performance of music at a pitch ot

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:04:35 -0500, Kieren MacMillan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Eyolf, Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place... Inte

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Hi Eyolf, Or one might turn the argument around and say that the melody is indeed trans-posed -- placed somewhere else, whereas the negative associations of dis- is that it's ended up in the wrong place... Interesting point... Really, what we're talking about is a NOTATIONAL SHORTHAND: th

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On 17.02.2008 (11:41), Valentin Villenave wrote: > 2008/2/17, David Fedoruk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music > > usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key. > > Octave displacement does not change the key. Or

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

Simon Dahlbacka wrote: FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the "note/rest" part. (http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/music-glossary/Duration-names-notes-and-rests.html#Duration-names-notes-and-rests

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

Hi Kurt, On 17/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: > So, does the preferred hyphenation follow this parsing? If so, I'll have to > change the entries for 32osanuotti and 64osanuotti, from > > * kolmaskymme-neskahdesosa-nuotti > * kuudeskymme-nesneljäsosa-nuotti > > to something like this > > * kolmas-kymm

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Montag, 18. Februar 2008 schrieben Sie: > I never said that I was (completely) sane. Also, should that be > Hundertachtundzwanzigstelnote (with a t after Hunder- and g after > -zwanzi-)? Yes! Now you see why no sane person would write that out in

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

On 2/17/08 3:01 PM, "Simon Dahlbacka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/2/18, Reinhold Kainhofer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2008 schrieb Simon Dahlbacka: >>> > FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the >>> > "note/rest" part. > >> >Ahm, no, in German

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

On 2/17/08 2:44 PM, "Reinhold Kainhofer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ahm, no, in German we also say > "ganze Note" (whole) > "halbe Note" (half) > "Viertelnote" (quarter) > "Achtelnote" (eighth) > "Sechzehntelnote" or "16tel-Note" (sixteenth) > "Zweiunddreißigstelnote" or "32tel-Note" (32th) > "Vi

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

2008/2/18, Reinhold Kainhofer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2008 schrieb Simon Dahlbacka: > > FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the > > "note/rest" part. >Ahm, no, in German we also say ... actually, what I meant (but failed to explicitly spell ou

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

Am Sonntag, 17. Februar 2008 schrieb Simon Dahlbacka: > FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the > "note/rest" part. Ahm, no, in German we also say "ganze Note" (whole) "halbe Note" (half) "Viertelnote" (quarter) "Achtelnote" (eighth) "Sechzehntelnote" or "16tel-Note" (

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

FWIW, it seems that Finnish is the only? language that includes the "note/rest" part. ( http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/music-glossary/Duration-names-notes-and-rests.html#Duration-names-notes-and-rests ) And the swedish name for 128th would be hundratjugoåttondel and 256th tvåhun

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

On 2/17/08 1:09 PM, "Risto Vääräniemi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... > More stuff: > Quarter notes and rests seem to be named as neljännesosanuotti and > neljännesosatauko in the glossary. They are understandable but more > common words are neljäsosanuotti and neljäsosatauko. Common as in: * "

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

On 2/17/08 12:15 PM, "Risto Vääräniemi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Kurt, >> What the ... Finnish words for 128th note > 128-osanuotti (1/128-osanuotti) > (yksi)sadaskahdeskymmeneskahdeksasosanuotti > > Breakup: > sadas = 100th, > kahdeskymmenes = 20th (2th (deliberate), 10th), > kahdeksas

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

Oh yes. Forgot the rests. On 17/02/2008, Risto Vääräniemi wrote: > On 17/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: > > Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: > > > > What the ... Finnish words for 128th note The rest names are formed like this. 128th rest: 1/128-osatauko (128-osatauko). 256th rest: 1/256-osatauko

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

Dear Kurt, On 17/02/2008, Kurt Kroon wrote: > Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: > > What the ... Finnish words for 128th note 128-osanuotti (1/128-osanuotti) (yksi)sadaskahdeskymmeneskahdeksasosanuotti Breakup: sadas = 100th, kahdeskymmenes = 20th (2th (deliberate), 10th), kahdeksas = 8th, osa =

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

>> ... >> >> What the Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish words for 128th- and 256th-notes >> and -rests? I was able to get the note names for English (both flavors), French, Spanish, Italian and German elsewhere. That's why I only asked for the names in Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish only.

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

2008/2/17, Daniel Tonda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > When I went to music school (in México) the notes up to 128th went like > this: > > whole = redonda > 1/2 = blanca > 1/4 = negra > 1/8 = corchea > 1/16 = semicorchea > 1/32 = fusa > 1/64 = semifusa > 1/128 = garrapatea (i always thou

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

When I went to music school (in México) the notes up to 128th went like this: whole = redonda 1/2 = blanca 1/4 = negra 1/8 = corchea 1/16 = semicorchea 1/32 = fusa 1/64 = semifusa 1/128 = garrapatea (i always thought this was hilarious because it sounds like garrapata which is an

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

On Feb 16, 2008 9:48 PM, Kurt Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in a > different octave. When you describe it (this passage) to another musician, > what term do you use? And do you use the same term or a different one for >

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

On Feb 16, 2008 11:25 PM, Kurt Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: > > What the Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish words for 128th- and 256th-notes > and -rests? In Dutch: 128e noot, 256e noot, 128e rust, 256e rust. In the unlikely case someone would prefer to wri

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

2008/2/17, David Fedoruk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Octave transposition seems a confusing, since transposition in music > usually implies that the passage is to be played in a different key. > Octave displacement does not change the key. Yes, I'd prefer to avoid "transposition" as well. In French,

Re: GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

> > > I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing > > the list. ... > > Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: > > What the Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish words for 128th- and 256th-notes > and -rests? In English, this would depend on which side of the Atlantic yo

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Hello: The only term I've ever heard in english for this is "octave displacement" and its notation is 8va .. dotted line over the affected passage. I lieu of any other acceptable english terminology I'd go with Groves as it widely accepted as a standard English language reference work for mus

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

I agree with Ian: "octave transposition". Thinking about it, the term "octavation" (and "octavated") is, in fact, in my English vocabulary, but only for artificial harmonics at the octave (ie, those string harmonics where the diamond notehead appears exactly one octave above the capotasto / stoppe

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

The Grove Dictionary of Music gives no English term, only the Italian all'ottava or all'8va (meaning 'at the octave'). For comparison, the Finale 2006 user manual index lists the topic under "8va/8bv". The index entries for 15ma, Ottava, and Quindecima all say "see 8va/8bv". Andrew On Feb 16, 200

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Hi Kurt, The only other term I've heard is "octavization", which is as ugly-sounding as "octavation". I prefer "octave transposition", which describes exactly what is going on in your piece. Cheers, Ian Hulin Kurt Kroon wrote: I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm

GDP: What term do you use? (redux)

On 2/16/08 12:48 PM, "Kurt Kroon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing > the list. ... Oh, yeah ... I was also wondering: What the Dutch, Danish, Finnish and Swedish words for 128th- and 256th-notes and -rests? Thanks! Kurtis

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

Hi all, To play/sing something an octave higher or lower is called "oktavieren" That should really be "ovtaKIEREN"... ;-) At least the English wikipedia page does not give a proper term for it I tend to call it "octave displacement" myself... Cheers, (ovta)Kieren. _

Re: GDP: What term do you use?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am Samstag, 16. Februar 2008 schrieb Kurt Kroon: > I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm > canvassing the list. Here's the scenario: > > You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in > a differe

GDP: What term do you use?

I'm working on the Glossary for the GDP, and I'm stuck -- so, I'm canvassing the list. Here's the scenario: You've written a composition with a passage that needs to be played in a different octave. When you describe it (this passage) to another musician, what term do you use? And do you us