Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-17 Thread Beni Cherniavsky
Shlomi Fish wrote on 2003-11-03: Now, for the choice of language: Perl - my favourite language (;-)). There's more than one way to do it. Very flexible. A lot of different ways to accomplish the same thing. Some people love it. Some people hate it. You can't know until you've tried. Python

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-17 Thread Shlomi Fish
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Beni Cherniavsky wrote: Shlomi Fish wrote on 2003-11-03: Now, for the choice of language: Perl - my favourite language (;-)). There's more than one way to do it. Very flexible. A lot of different ways to accomplish the same thing. Some people love it. Some people

RE: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-09 Thread Iftach Hyams
Python,perl,tcl/tk,qt,gtk+ Are you looking for a language or a toolkit ? You have FLTK, vxWindows and GLUI (over OpenGL). This e-mail message has been sent by Elbit Systems Ltd. and is for the use of the intended recipients only. The message may contain privileged or confidential

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Oron Peled
On Thursday 06 November 2003 01:14, Micha Feigin wrote: From you are saying you can't use any GPL toolkit to build commercial software. You seem to confuse commercial with proprietary. A company may charge money for GPL derived programs but if they distribute them they must provide access to

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Shachar Shemesh
Oron Peled wrote: Its yet to stand up in court though. What should stand up in court? The right to distribute software against its license terms? You must be drinking. The only thing a court may need to decide is if linking a library makes your software a derived work. As I said before, this

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Muli Ben-Yehuda
On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 10:46:35AM +0200, Shachar Shemesh wrote: The only thing a court may need to decide is if linking a library makes your software a derived work. As I said before, this case looks clear enough to most people that even infringing companies prefer to release code and not go

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Oron Peled wrote: Its yet to stand up in court though. What should stand up in court? The right to distribute software against its license terms? You must be drinking. The only thing a court may need to decide is if linking a library makes

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Oded Arbel
Oron Peled wrote: Its yet to stand up in court though. Merely linking with a library does not make your software derived work of that company! How can that be? Let's take an example. Suppose Wine is distributed under the GPL (It's LGPL, but for the sake of discussion). According to your

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Oron Peled
On Thursday 06 November 2003 10:46, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Let's take an example. Suppose Wine is distributed under the GPL (It's LGPL, but for the sake of discussion). It is LGPL precisely to prevent the legal problems of linking against GPL code (just like glibc is LGPL'ed for the same

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Oleg Goldshmidt
Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oron Peled wrote: Its yet to stand up in court though. What should stand up in court? The right to distribute software against its license terms? You must be drinking. The only thing a court may need to decide is if linking a library makes

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Shachar Shemesh
As it is clear that I have been misunderstood, I'll try to explain again. Wine is LGPL. As such, it is not covered by this discussion. Let's then take the wine code, and fork it. We'll call the new program Winw, for Winw is not Wine. Winw is licensed under the GPL (as the GPL is LGPL

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Gilad Ben-Yossef
On Thursday 06 November 2003 10:46, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Oron Peled wrote: Its yet to stand up in court though. What should stand up in court? The right to distribute software against its license terms? You must be drinking. The only thing a court may need to decide is if linking a

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Oded Arbel
I certainly agree with you that in this case, the onus of making the code open does not lie with its developers (who have no knowledge of and have never used WINE), but rather with the user who did use WINE, which is a thorny mess I have no idea how to solve ;-) No, this is absured. The user

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Shachar Shemesh
Oded Arbel wrote: I certainly agree with you that in this case, the onus of making the code open does not lie with its developers (who have no knowledge of and have never used WINE), but rather with the user who did use WINE, which is a thorny mess I have no idea how to solve ;-) No,

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Shachar Shemesh
Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote: On Thursday 06 November 2003 10:46, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Oron Peled wrote: Its yet to stand up in court though. What should stand up in court? The right to distribute software against its license terms? You must be drinking. The only thing a court may

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-06 Thread Shlomi Fish
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Micha Feigin wrote: On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 11:03, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Ely Levy wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3sounds cool. I put

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
Shachar, I guess you are still a bit wrong about GPL, but of course IANAL. IMHO, it's not the black or white world of it's a derived work or not. Random notes: * LGPL is GPL compatible, but it does not mean you if you are not the author of an LGPLed piece of code, you are allowed to make a

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Shachar Shemesh
Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Shachar, I guess you are still a bit wrong about GPL, but of course IANAL. IMHO, it's not the black or white world of it's a derived work or not. Random notes: * LGPL is GPL compatible, but it does not mean you if you are not the author of an LGPLed piece of code, you

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Oded Arbel
Oded Arbel wrote: While taking it a bit to the extreme (and I don't think anybody would try to enforce it) with our hypothetic Winw, the user who tries to run Win32 application might be considered infringing on the Winw GPL license just by using it. I guess this is one of the reasons the real

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Shachar Shemesh
Oded Arbel wrote: Oded Arbel wrote: While taking it a bit to the extreme (and I don't think anybody would try to enforce it) with our hypothetic Winw, the user who tries to run Win32 application might be considered infringing on the Winw GPL license just by using it. I guess this is one

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Oleg Goldshmidt
Oded Arbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of course there is ! Using the software implies copying - you copy it into your harddisk and then you copy it into your computer's dynamic memory where it can be run. GPL specifically says, The act of running the Program is not restricted -- Oleg

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Oded Arbel
The fact that you got your hands on a packaged software product does not mean you can use it. Sure it does. That's what the First sale doctrine means. Once I sold you a piece of software, I cannot tell you what to do, and what not to do, with it. if that were the case, then If I copy a

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-06 Thread Micha Feigin
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 21:40, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Micha Feigin wrote: On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 11:03, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Ely Levy wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote:

Re: GPL (was GUI language for beginners)

2003-11-06 Thread Micha Feigin
On Thu, 2003-11-06 at 09:10, Oron Peled wrote: On Thursday 06 November 2003 01:14, Micha Feigin wrote: From you are saying you can't use any GPL toolkit to build commercial software. You seem to confuse commercial with proprietary. A company may charge money for GPL derived programs but

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-05 Thread Micha Feigin
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 11:03, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Ely Levy wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach.

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-05 Thread Oron Peled
On Wednesday 05 November 2003 20:39, Micha Feigin wrote: Although I believe that if you use dynamic linking you can still mix GPL and closed source (as you are not actually including the source in you program). The type of linking is irrelevant, the determining factor is if it's derived work.

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-05 Thread Micha Feigin
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 22:02, Oron Peled wrote: On Wednesday 05 November 2003 20:39, Micha Feigin wrote: Although I believe that if you use dynamic linking you can still mix GPL and closed source (as you are not actually including the source in you program). The type of linking is

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Ely Levy
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach. gtk: * not object oriented (looks un-natural to build gui's in no oop language) * looks funkey on win32 qt: * not free in win32 Actually it is

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Shlomi Fish
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Ely Levy wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach. gtk: * not object oriented (looks un-natural to build gui's in no oop language) * looks funkey on win32

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Ely Levy wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach. gtk: * not object oriented (looks un-natural to build

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Ely Levy
Well it's a bit weird, for once I remember it was fully GPLed few month ago now they seem to change it so although there is GPLed version of QT for windows only academic people can download it but since it's fully GPLed I don't see how they how they can stop anyone who isn't academic from copying

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Oded Arbel
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach. gtk: * not object oriented (looks un-natural to build gui's in no oop language) I beg your pardon? Gtk+ is Object-Oriented. And you can do OOP in

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Ely Levy
btw if you want to even get more confuzed http://www.trolltech.com/download/index.html notice the educational version is under the GPL section if you look on the licence part of the page it would tell you it's under educational license so I guess their webpage is a bit not updated to one side

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Oded Arbel
On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 07:07:05PM -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Was waiting for someone else to mention that, but no one did. Perhaps PyGTK (Python + GTK bindings) is the best to go these days. There are thousands of small and large examples out there to copy from ;-). Ruby + GTK seems

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Oded Arbel
Well it's a bit weird, for once I remember it was fully GPLed few month ago now they seem to change it so although there is GPLed version of QT for windows only academic people can download it but since it's fully GPLed I don't see how they how they can stop anyone who isn't academic from

Re: GUI language for beginners (fwd)

2003-11-04 Thread Shlomi Fish
Mackall on OFTC.net #offtopic. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:22:50 +0200 (IST) From: Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Oded Arbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GUI language for beginners Hi! Did you mean to send this E-mail to the list? On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Oded

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Yedidyah Bar-David
On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 04:03:02AM -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Ely Levy wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-04 Thread Shlomi Fish
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Shlomi Fish wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Ely Levy wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach. gtk:

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-03 Thread Shlomi Fish
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote: Hi Aviad, I've decided that a lot of voices make for a more interesting conversation. I'm therefor forwarding your email to a mailing list I read (and occasionally even write to). I'm sure the good people here will have plenty to say. You may want

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-03 Thread Shlomi Fish
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach. gtk: * not object oriented (looks un-natural to build gui's in no oop language) I beg your pardon? Gtk+ is Object-Oriented. And you can do OOP in C

GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Shachar Shemesh
Hi Aviad, I've decided that a lot of voices make for a more interesting conversation. I'm therefor forwarding your email to a mailing list I read (and occasionally even write to). I'm sure the good people here will have plenty to say. You may want to clarify what sending parameters mean,

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Diego Iastrubni
Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach. gtk: * not object oriented (looks un-natural to build gui's in no oop language) * looks funkey on win32 qt: * not free in win32 * does not compile with mingw or friends on win32 java: * funky

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Ariel Biener
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote: A good begginer's GUI tool for a univ. project. Which would be best? tcl/tk probably. --Ariel Shachar aviad wrote: i wonder if you could help me choose between several languages to develop gui based application i gotlost between

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Ariel Biener
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Heh, you programmers, never pragmatical, always aiming at the overkill. --Ariel Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the downsides of each approach. gtk: * not object oriented (looks un-natural to build gui's in no

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Diego Iastrubni
you can always claim i was aiming for language... :) , 2 2003, 23:45,Ariel Biener: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Heh, you programmers, never pragmatical, always aiming at the overkill. --Ariel Here is my opinion: any one of this 3 sounds cool. I put here only the

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Daniel Freedman
Hi, On Sun, Nov 02, 2003, Ariel Biener wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Shachar Shemesh wrote: A good begginer's GUI tool for a univ. project. Which would be best? tcl/tk probably. personal bias Ugghh. Tcl/Tk's sorta dying, IMHO.../personal bias How about Ruby? Fully OO. Now with Gui hooks

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader
Quoth Shachar Shemesh: aviad wrote: Python,perl,tcl/tk,qt,gtk+ SNOBOL/TK! -- ---OFCNL This is MY list. This list belongs to ME! I will flame anyone I want. Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader
aviad wrote: i wonder if you could help me choose between several languages to develop gui based application i got lost between : Python,perl,tcl/tk,qt,gtk+ i need a language that will help me to develop a small gui that will communicate with a non gui linux program (send parameters via

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader
Quoth Ariel Biener: On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Diego Iastrubni wrote: Heh, you programmers, never pragmatical, always aiming at the overkill. Note, also, that these are NOT languages ;-)... gtk: * not object oriented (looks un-natural to build gui's in no oop language) * looks funkey on

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Oleg Kobets
Kylix rulez ! :-))) - Original Message - From: Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Linux-IL mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: aviad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 11:18 PM Subject: GUI language for beginners Hi Aviad, I've decided that a lot of voices make

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Behdad Esfahbod
Was waiting for someone else to mention that, but no one did. Perhaps PyGTK (Python + GTK bindings) is the best to go these days. There are thousands of small and large examples out there to copy from ;-). Ruby + GTK seems good too, but Ruby is not a language I bother myself learning, when I

Re: GUI language for beginners

2003-11-02 Thread Yedidyah Bar-David
On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 07:07:05PM -0500, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Was waiting for someone else to mention that, but no one did. Perhaps PyGTK (Python + GTK bindings) is the best to go these days. There are thousands of small and large examples out there to copy from ;-). Ruby + GTK seems