It comes up every now and then. Many of us play in some sort of meantone
temperament. From very extreme 1/4 comma to not so mean 1/6 or 1/7 comma.
From very exact fretpositions with calculators and spreadsheets to adjusting
frets just by ear. It makes the music less boring (all those equal
that doesn't stop people from using it. Actually I can't imagine not using
it.
I do occasionally use chalk powder ('baby powder') on troublesome pegs.
David
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This thread started as a question for suitable continuo instrument. I like
using my 10-course bass-lute in d' (renaissance tuning): wide range, strong
basses, good in many keys. Especially useful when accompanying basses and
altos as it is a fourth down from a 10-course or archlute in g'.
Michael,
You mention Plum for pegs, I bit the bullet before starting my from
scratch lute and spent the money for David van Edwards CD course. He has a
rather good discussion of the various woods, and nicely adds the North
American available equivalents as well as he can assess them. He suggested
Peter,
With David I point out that silica (SiO2) is the oxide of the element
silicon, and add that the silicon chips of Silicon Valley aren't actually
pure silicon (in the late '40s my father, a researcher in solid state
physics at Bell Labs, sent out an internal memo speculating on the
Roman,
Whilst, as you'll be aware, there are quite a number of intabulated
accompaniments fr Dm lute from the 18thC, surely a professional continuo player
(eg SL Weiss) from that period played from staff notation? Indeed isn't there
a letter from him to say he couldn't be bothered to use
I know of no evidence that the theorbo pitched 4th higher than usual was used
for continuo - do you?
Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
Also, short of having written tablature accompaniment for the d-min
lute (such as you have for your lieder),
OK, I've read all the messages in the thread and yet have a confusion. A
confusion about what is desirable. (Note my earlier comment on the
intentionally wearable nylon gear in the speedometer).
Why would a luthier want to have the inevitable wear between peg and peg
holes be either random or in
David,
We've had honey and tar, and thoughts from afar,
We've had staff, tabulation and forms of notation,
The RB bass hasn't yet shown its face,
And thats well as it has no relation.
Hell's bells, the specific continuo for a specific piece, to be performed
HIP might require a specific
Or even better, why not use the Colachon (various spellings) for which there
is real 18thC evidence of usage in Northern Europe. Telleman amongst others
specified it (and not tiorba).
Martyn
LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This thread started as a question for suitable continuo
Jon Murphy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
You mention Plum for pegs, I bit the bullet before starting my from
scratch lute and spent the money for David van Edwards CD course. He has a
rather good discussion of the various woods, and nicely adds the North
American available equivalents as
LGS-Europe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
This thread started as a question for suitable continuo instrument. I like
using my 10-course bass-lute in d' (renaissance tuning): wide range, strong
basses, good in many keys. Especially useful when accompanying basses and
altos as it is a
Dear Martyn and the List,
on Thursday 10 March 2005 11:22 Martyn Hodgson wrote:
I know of no evidence that the theorbo pitched 4th higher than usual
was used for continuo - do you?
I do not know any historical reference to a high d theorbo in continuo
use. Does our collective wisdom
Thank you Arto,
However, by evidence I meant historical evidence from the early period; - I'm
sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Martyn
Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Martyn and the List,
on Thursday 10 March 2005 11:22 Martyn Hodgson wrote:
I know of no evidence that the
Am Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:04:14 +0100 schrieb Stephan Olbertz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I always thought that the problems are:
1. to get the minor third between the first and second/fourth and fifth
courses into the tuning system and
2. doubling A-d-f in the high octave means doubling the trouble
If you take for granted the use of d-minor lute as a common continuo
instrument: there is no reason to deny the same misapplication for the
theorbe-de-pieces.
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
From: Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
However, by evidence I meant
Michael wrote:
Roman wrote:
Back in the old country we say: A spoonful of tar will ruin a barrel of
honey.
But then again, A spoonful of honey helps the medicine go down, the
medicine go down
And always remember that a bit of better butter makes a bitter batter better.
Craig
Whilst, as you'll be aware, there are quite a number of intabulated
accompaniments fr Dm lute from the 18thC, surely a professional continuo
player (eg SL Weiss) from that period played from staff notation? Indeed
isn't there a letter from him to say he couldn't be bothered to use the old
Roman wrote:
And always remember that a bit of better butter makes a bitter batter
better.
Don't make me use a bat as a continuo instrument.
I didn't know you played for the Yankees.
Craig
To get on or off this list see list information at
Roman wrote:
And always remember that a bit of better butter makes a bitter batter
better.
Don't make me use a bat as a continuo instrument.
I didn't know you played for the Yankees.
Craig
Whatever is necessary to apply to them Confederate SCAers.
RT
To get on or off this list
Dear lutenists
I heard that the Dutch Lute Society has just published 'Florida' by
Joachim van den Hove (1601)! And I already ordered a copy... :-)
Just go to their page: http://www.luitvereniging.nl/
All the best
Arto
To get on or off this list see list information at
It comes up every now and then. Many of us play in some sort of meantone
temperament. From very extreme 1/4 comma to not so mean 1/6 or 1/7 comma.
From very exact fretpositions with calculators and spreadsheets to adjusting
frets just by ear. It makes the music less boring (all those equal
I understand yr fine semantical reasoning; but surely the real point is that
we do have evidence for the Dm lute being used in continuo role, but none
whatsoever for the theorbo @ 4th higher than usual.
Martyn
Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you take for granted the use of
Quite.
But how does this justify yr position that it is 'preposterous' etc to play
from staff notation on a Dm tuned instrument?
Martyn
Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Whilst, as you'll be aware, there are quite a number of intabulated
accompaniments fr Dm lute from the
On Thursday 10 March 2005 15:17, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I am frankly not sure that the music that relies on MT for interest
were a worthwhile endeavor.
I am sure that the music that relies on MT for interest was and is a
worthwhile endeavour!
Arto
You may have your pie and eat it too.
Arto Wikla wrote:
Dear lutenists
I heard that the Dutch Lute Society has just published 'Florida' by
Joachim van den Hove (1601)! And I already ordered a copy... :-)
Just go to their page:
http://www.luitvereniging.nl/
All the best
Arto
Dear Arto, This is welcome news. And
It comes up every now and then. Many of us play in some sort of meantone
temperament. From very extreme 1/4 comma to not so mean 1/6 or 1/7 comma.
From very exact fretpositions with calculators and spreadsheets to
adjusting
frets just by ear. It makes the music less boring (all those equal
Jon,
I think cherry would be quite similar, but personally I've only used
plum. Ken Brodkey was telling me he had some cherry but felt it was too
soft for pegs, but that might have been that particular piece. The cherry I
have seems pretty hard.
As far as ribs go, I sometimes have a
On Thursday 10 March 2005 16:28, Roman Turovsky wrote:
On Thursday 10 March 2005 15:17, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I am frankly not sure that the music that relies on MT for
interest were a worthwhile endeavor.
I am sure that the music that relies on MT for interest was and is
a worthwhile
On Thursday 10 March 2005 15:03, you wrote:
The new editions which are currently planned are:
Thysius manuscript, 600 pages lutemusic on 7 (!) lines. It's planned for this
year. This could be done quite quickly because the owner, the university of
Leiden, is celebrating a xxx year anniversary
I second that emotion. Recently A famous Jazz guy down in Santa Fe was
demonstrating to me how perfectly his guitar played in tune and I fell
asleep, but it might have been the jazz that put me under.
Michael Thames
A diminished scale in 1/4 comma would by just yummy.
RT
I agree, but then
There is nothing quite so lovely as a voice accompanied
by a baroque lute. Anyone who doesn't think so must
be way off bass.
MC
-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 10, 2005 8:17 AM
To: LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: Continuo
Better to use a
The lute (or myself, for that matter) is never off bass. Some HIGH VOICES
ARE, sometimes, ifyouacquiremydrift..
RT
There is nothing quite so lovely as a voice accompanied
by a baroque lute. Anyone who doesn't think so must
be way off bass.
MC
Better to use a bat as a continuo instrument
I second that emotion. Recently A famous Jazz guy down in Santa Fe was
demonstrating to me how perfectly his guitar played in tune and I fell
asleep, but it might have been the jazz that put me under.
Michael Thames
A diminished scale in 1/4 comma would by just yummy.
RT
I agree, but then
Has anyone run across any historical evidence of thumb-out with the pinky not
resting on the soundboard? I'm aware of the baroque guitar strumming. Just
curious.
- Chris Schuab
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Anyone out there know a source for bone large enough to make pegs from?
At the risk of sounding facetious - a butcher? It stinks enough when you
file a bone nut, so God knows what it would be like on a lathe.
I've just tried to find out what Sacconi says about pegs in his book on
It's ok Ed, we knew what you meant. I had assumed you meant
up away from the floor as though you were holding the lute in a playing
position, not up in pitch. We want to flatten the thirds for better
temperment.
It is interesting that it is ambiguous because this sort of thing
comes up in old
Butchers and petshops (though not the bones of Michielle Harton, which s=
hould be regarded as holy relicsl). Bone from butchers is free, but petshop=
s have done all of the foul-smelling boiling etc. for you... whic= h is
probably worth the added cost.
Peter
- Original
This brings me to a further
speculation that they were structurally and acoustically very similar.
I would agree. They would be similar, but have varied in size.
One could speculate that - like the lute - the vihuela originally had four,
then five, then six courses. The 4-course instrument
Jon,
I think the species name is prunus, and it includes plum, cherry, and
apricot. However, the qualities of a wood can vary from region to
region and tree to tree. The cherry I have access to is a nice wood
to work with, but not particularly hard. I don't know if European
cherry or wild
Don't look at me, I need all of mine!
Original Message
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Pegs, revisited - ebony
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:31:28 -0700
I have a guitar made at the turn of the 19th century with
original bone
pegs,
Anyone out there know a source for bone large enough to make pegs from?
Yes. Matanya.
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Anyone out there know a source for bone large enough to make pegs from?
Yes. Matanya.
RT
To enshrine him in a lute. Maybe he can donate something to make strings
from too.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
The Cherry available commercially in the states is black cherry and is quite
soft. Softer than most maples or walnut. It turns OK but tends to get a but
furry if the tools aren't sharp.
Craig
Craig R. Pierpont
Another Era Lutherie
www.anotherera.com
timothy motz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
bitch ;-)
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: timothy motz [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pegs, revisited - ebony
Anyone out there know a source for bone
The (I think ) majority of contemporary lute players do some sort of
pinky-resting with the right hand. They point to lots of iconographic
evidence to support this practice.
When one buys a used lute, vihuela, archlute, baroque guita, etc. very
often there is a stain of some kind on the
Good point. Could it be that many historic instruments have been
un-played,
ornamental gift specimens, and so have had a better chance of survival,
as compared to the actual work-horses?
You might think that more paintings would show this worn spot from the
LF, but they don't. One important
I will ask Baldock to hurry inventing neurolines.
danyel
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]; timothy motz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: Pegs,
I think cherry would be quite similar, but personally I've only used
plum.
I thought the genera was prunus, but I dont have any ref handy, so better look
it
up.
Wood qualitys vary from tree to tree within the same species, across species it
is
uncommon for woods to be equivalent.
I
Dear Joe and All:
I have heard that many historical lutes have been cleaned up to the
point that the soundboards are now thinner than they were originally. Could
this cleaning-up process also remove the tell-tale mark from the little
finger?
Cheers,
Jim
Am Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:35:19 -0500 schrieb Roman Turovsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I always thought that the problems are:
1. to get the minor third between the first and second/fourth and fifth
courses into the tuning system and
2. doubling A-d-f in the high octave means doubling the trouble
I always thought that the problems are:
1. to get the minor third between the first and second/fourth and fifth
courses into the tuning system and
2. doubling A-d-f in the high octave means doubling the trouble with
tastinis and eliminating the possibility of slanting the frets.
As I
Bone may indeed make nice pegs, but, it is hygroscopic, like wood, and raw bone
needs to be cleaned before use. One work I have seen recomends burying fresh
bone
(say, from that roast you just finished) in soil with active microbial activity
for several months. You then boil them for some
I have a guitar made at the turn of the century , the one with bone pegs. It
has a spot where the LF has worn away the softer wood between the growth
lines, probably about half way through the top, but it doesn't have any kind
of real obvious discoloration.
It's on my website under museum
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