>> Arto, I am honored by the effort and energy you have put into your research.
>> RT
>> __
>>> lappish lutenist or something like that, see
>>> http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/sautsekki.jpg
>
> There is more enlightment on the aforementioned daguerrotype:
> In the middle of the
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Roman Turovsky wrote:
> Arto, I am honored by the effort and energy you have put into your research.
> RT
> __
> > lappish lutenist or something like that, see
> > http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/sautsekki.jpg
There is more enlightment on the aforementioned
Arto, I am honored by the effort and energy you have put into your research.
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
>> Hållbus Totte Mattson does pagan scandinavian folk-rock on a 13-course
>> baroque lute, but I wouldn't think it advisable to draw a conclusion
>> of a Lapp
On Tuesday 14 December 2004 17:28, Roman Turovsky wrote:
> Hålbus Totte Mattson does pagan scandinavian folk-rock on a 13-course
> baroque lute, but I wouldn't think it advisable to draw a conclusion
> of a Lappish "lutenism" from this.
There seems to be an old daguerrotype that propably represe
Dear Alain,
I have listened to the Kaky Kings CDs, that I found very interesting; I found
her technique very similar to Michael Hedges play (Aerial boundaries)
Paolo Declich
> You all got it all wrong: The difference between a vihuela and a
> charango is the same as that between a piano and
osinfiorini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Vihuela, charango and armadillos. Long post . Olim Renaissance
america - a little more lute related, maybe
>
> i found this thought brilliant:
>
> &g
i found this thought brilliant:
> > i read recently that the process of history really got
> > underway when mirrors became affordable to everyone.
> > until then it was impossible - literally - to properly
> > see one'self as anything distinctly different.
By chance I red recently in this book
and so ...
with the icy blast of rejection resounding in his
neatly combed, brand new casa armonica, the plucky
little vihuela de mano retraced his steps back to the
nina, pinta and santa maria.
"'vihuelita' ..." the common little chordophone mused
as he scampered up the gangway and into the arms
Dear Alain, Howard, Roman and Stephen,
Thanks ever so much for your comments.
I will now rest my case.
With my best wishes for the season for all the list,
Antonio
___
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messe
bill kilpatrick wrote:
> any of the
> variations listed in your preceding letter (tunings,
> backing material, no. of courses, etc.) would
> naturally be of intense interest to him - no more than
> any other "variation" he might have encountered in his
> experience - but of secondary importance to
You all got it all wrong: The difference between a vihuela and a
charango is the same as that between a piano and an organ transplant.
What beats me is why this thread is going on, while we could be talking
about the Cuban lute - as heard on the Buena Vista Club famous CD -
which at least as a
--- bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> you say "potato" - i say "potato" ... let's call
> the
> whole thing off.
>
> regards - bill
>
Dear Bill,
I shall be pleased to oblige.
Best regards,
Antonio
___
> you may grow weary of me "banging on" about this but
> your knowledge on the subject is very interesting to
> me.
>
> the music played on the charango, its function in the
> music and the variation of technique and material used
> in its construction are as different and individual as
> the luth
Dear bill,
Some final thoughts on this matter. Regarding the name
applied to the vihuela by the Quechua Indians, I
should like to quote what Robert Stevenson has to say
in this respect:
"So largely did the drum idea loom that when the
Spaniards introduced the guitarra and the vihuela the
Quechua
dear antonio -
you may grow weary of me "banging on" about this but
your knowledge on the subject is very interesting to
me.
the music played on the charango, its function in the
music and the variation of technique and material used
in its construction are as different and individual as
the luth
Bill,
I commend you on your manners, and I'll not quarrel with Antonio's history
of the names and the language of the instruments of South America.
But as an outside source I'll just say "bullshit". Parallel development of
anything is both possible and likely, and particularly of musical
instrume
dear antonio -
thank you very much for your considerate and
informative reply.
what's needed here is a little imagination and i don't
think historians are willing to inch themselves that
far out on to the plank.
we have a shipwrecked sailor with some carpentry
skills who makes a stringed instru
Dear Bill,
How right you are. In the remote case that the
"Historias de la Conquista del Mayab" proved to be
genuine, I would require more evidence than what this
text alone tells to consider that there might be a
relationship between the vihuela and the charango.
There are certain statements in t
Howard wrote:
> And except among
>the small minority of people who had money, the renaissance didn't pass
>through Europe either.
Yeah right--money: "can i buy you a renaissance tonight?"--"oh yes, i'd
appreciate it,
i can't afford it you see.." Renaissance--Something to Buy, Something to
Consu
>
>> in Russia medieval era lasted till about 1690.
>
> When Peter the Great shaved off the last boyar beard?
Took 'em awhile to get shaved. There was also a period of beard tax (sic!).
>> And some remnants thereof to 1860.
>
> March 3, 1861, I would think.
Thanks for clarification.
Do Russi
> I wrote:
>
>> Do Russians talk of a "renaissance" in
>> Russia?
>
> By which I meant, do Russians speak of the renaissance as something that
> occurred in Russia?
Never. Russian mythopoeism goes only so far.
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~w
I wrote:
> Do Russians talk of a "renaissance" in
> Russia?
By which I meant, do Russians speak of the renaissance as something that
occurred in Russia?
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Roman Turovsky wrote:
> in Russia medieval era lasted till about 1690.
When Peter the Great shaved off the last boyar beard?
>And some remnants thereof to 1860.
March 3, 1861, I would think. Do Russians talk of a "renaissance" in
Russia?
To get on or off this list see list information at
ht
>> i'll restate my line: renaissance never
>> passed through the States and this is a fact.
>
> Since there was almost no European population in North America during the
> time known as the renaissance, this is not significant. And except among
> the small minority of people who had money, the re
Dear Roman;
Will do.
Gary
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "gary digman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: Renaissance america
>
antonio -
in fairness, i never got an answer in the 1st round of
correspondence; you said the charango was different to
the vihuela de mano but never explained why or how.
be that as it may, in order to prove that "charango"
is merely a quechua name given to the vihuela de mano
i'll have to: (a
rosinfiorini wrote:
>i'll restate my line: renaissance never
> passed through the States and this is a fact.
Since there was almost no European population in North America during the
time known as the renaissance, this is not significant. And except among
the small minority of people who had mon
Dear all,
Once again .
--- bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> surely this is a case of putting the cart before the
> horse.
If the fact that the violeros knew what name to call
the instruments they made, and designated them with
such names in their own documents, implies pu
Thanks to both Wayne and Arto. I'll dig into it.
Tim
On Saturday, December 11, 2004, at 04:11 AM, Arto Wikla wrote:
>
> Lutenists
>
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Wayne Cripps wrote:
>
>> If you want neusidler, I have neusidler - a major chunk of one of
>> his instruction books. Starts out real easy!
Hey Roman, didn't you already award that title to Milton Babbitt or someone?
-Original Message-
From: gary digman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 12:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Renaissance america
Dear Roman;
"Noam Chomsky is t
t; To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Renaissance america
>
>
> Dear Roman;
> "Noam Chomsky is the biggest senile idiot that ever lived..."? On
> what have you based this diagnosis? Or is this just your way of saying you
> disagree with his analysis? Such drama.
>
quot; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 6:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Renaissance america
>
>
>>> had to have the luck to have moms that make good money so they can pay
>>> the 10
>
You also might try Thomas Walker's (1968) 'Ciaccona and Passacaglia:
Remarks on their Origin and Early History', JAMS 21/3
L.
Fossum, Arthur wrote:
>I will try to track down Richard Hudson's studies( thanks Antonio)
>
>-Arthur
>
>
>
>
>
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
lopment of music in Europe ( not
just Europe to Americas)
I will try to track down Richard Hudson's studies( thanks Antonio)
-Arthur
-Original Message-
From: Fossum, Arthur
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 8:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Renaissance America - a little mo
> NC is the biggest senile idiot that ever lived, and thank the Allah that
he
> doesn't get any more airtime.
> RT
It is seldom that I can agree with you, but Noam Chomsky isn't a senile
idiot - he was an idiot 40 years ago. His initial works on linguistics back
then were rather foolish. He took
Lutenists
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Wayne Cripps wrote:
> If you want neusidler, I have neusidler - a major chunk of one of
> his instruction books. Starts out real easy!
>
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tab-serv.cgi?neusidler.EinNew
This is just the page I was trying to find for Tim!
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:36 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Renaissance america - a little more
> lute related, maybe
>
> Dear all,
>
>
> --- Carl Donsbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Early col
surely this is a case of putting the cart before the
horse.
- precisely what changes were made to the vihuela de
mano that required it having a new name?
- at what point do derivations - alternative tunings,
decorative embellishments, different building
materials - necessitate this change?
No charangos (or cuatros or any other derivation
whatsoever). And these deluded buggers surely knew how
to name the instruments they made.
Antonio
--- bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --- Antonio Corona <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Incidentally, the Spanish "Ordenanzas de
> vi
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Renaissance america
>> had to have the luck to have moms that make good money so they can pay
>
While I find these remarks insightful -- except for the part about the
dominance of the religious and military, the part about Shakespeare and
Dowland (who were both dead before there were more than a handful of
European settlers in North America), and the parts about the praying seven
hours a day,
> NC is the biggest senile idiot that ever lived, and thank the Allah that he
> doesn't get any more airtime.
> RT
*
oh, really, and why this judgement? do you think he doesn't get air time
because he is 'senile' idiot, or because of other reasons?
i've listen to him on arecording talking about
> had to have the luck to have moms that make good money so they can pay the 10
> 000 dollars per year to get higher education. Then also "normal" citizen
> society never took over the medias there: here you see almost every night on
> TV philosophers, all government figures, artists, writers, free
> get a little of the scent of the mental schemes and climat that rulled then. I
> red these accounts by someone from there at this time and it was really
> stagnating and oppressive. They said, education was compulsarry but the only
> education there was was religious (and pretty severe). They had
Dudes!
If you want neusidler, I have neusidler - a major chunk of one of
his instruction books. Starts out real easy!
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/tab-serv/tab-serv.cgi?neusidler.EinNew
Wayne
>
>
>
> Dear Timothy
>
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, timothy motz wrote:
>
> > Anyone kno
> > Early colonial life was hard! The early English and Spanish colonies in
> > North America were not characterized by much musical cultural growth, and
> > there is little evidence of lute playing or making in those times. Musical
> > instruments (lutes included) tended to get left at home
ve been wrong in the past :)
-Arthur
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Renaissance America - a little more lute related, maybe
>>=20
>> How come "pas de passacalle" is in Feuillet's Choregraphie from
1713?
Evidently by that time the French had created a dance
Caroline Usher wrote:
> The passacaglia is not a dance.
Arthur Fossum wrote:
> How come "pas de passacalle" is in Feuillet's Choregraphie from 1713?
Probably because it was a dance at the time. If a musical form hangs around
for a century or two, any statement about what it "is" will be peril
>>=20
>> How come "pas de passacalle" is in Feuillet's Choregraphie from 1713?
Evidently by that time the French had created a dance for it, possibly an=
outgrowth of its use in stage and/or chamber music:
"In France the Hispanic-Italian passacaglia, like the chaconne, was=
transformed during
Dear Timothy
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, timothy motz wrote:
> Anyone know any easy
> (really easy) but interesting music for a beginner? No more than two
> voices, open strings on the second voice? Not too many shifts? I'm
> still working my way through the early chapters of Damiani's tutor
> but
>> Anyone know any easy
>>> (really easy) but interesting music for a beginner? No more than two
>>> voices, open strings on the second voice? Not too many shifts?
>
> Tall order, and, I fell compelled to point out, it has nothing to do with
> Stalingrad.
It has, quite a bit, but Kursk rather th
Timothy Motz wrote:
> Anyone know any easy
>> (really easy) but interesting music for a beginner? No more than two
>> voices, open strings on the second voice? Not too many shifts?
Tall order, and, I fell compelled to point out, it has nothing to do with
Stalingrad.
Try cruising the web sites
> -Original Message-
> From: Fossum, Arthur
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 12:01 PM
> To: 'Caroline Usher'
> Subject: RE: Renaissance America - a little more lute related, maybe
>
> How come "pas de passacalle" is in Feuillet's Chor
At 10:41 AM 12/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Obviously as a musical form Ciacona and Passacaglia are different. I
>think the website is calling them similar as respect to the dance steps.
>I would like to know the source as well for " F.A. Ciacone"
The passacaglia is not a dance. From the New Grove
I agree with Caroline,
Ciaccona is not equal to Passacaglia, the Sigr. Ciacone is not more palusible
than Sig. Passo Emezzo or Ms Folia...
Paolo
> At 09:21 AM 12/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >Some interesting stuff regarding the origin of Chaconne and Passacaglia
> >and the new world.
> >
> >h
> In reference to some of the messages in this thread, I would ask my
> online friends outside the United States to remember that Bush got a
> bare majority in the last election. Almost half of the country is
> unhappy about the current state of affairs. Many - including some of
> the Americans o
--On Friday, December 10, 2004 7:27 AM -0800 Howard Posner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Carl Donsbach wrote:
>
>> Early colonial life was hard! The early English and Spanish colonies in
>> North America were not characterized by much musical cultural growth, and
>> there is little evidence of lu
I thought it might be a spoof, but a visit to the home page, "dedicated to
the dancers of 'West Coast Swing' and its variants" indicates that the
writers are just out of their element.
Caroline Usher wrote:
> At 09:21 AM 12/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>> Some interesting stuff regarding the origin
> As others have said, can we get back to lutes? Anyone know any easy
> (really easy) but interesting music for a beginner? No more than two
> voices, open strings on the second voice? Not too many shifts? I'm
> still working my way through the early chapters of Damiani's tutor
> but it's nice t
still working my way through the early chapters of Damiani's tutor
but it's nice to have something else to play. My knowledge of the
available music is pretty meager.
Tim
>
>
> Original Message
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: Re: R
nt: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Renaissance america - a little more lute related, maybe
At 09:21 AM 12/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Some interesting stuff regarding the origin of Chaconne and Passacaglia
>and the new world.
>
>http://www.st
>>> I'm no military historian
>>
>> Obviously not.
>
> There's a lot of that going around it seems.
>
>>> but really, did the Russian accomplishment consist
>>> of anything besides simply absorbing the German assault
>>> (astounding as that may be)?
>>
>> A minor thing indeed, at the cost 20,00
Carl Donsbach wrote:
> Early colonial life was hard! The early English and Spanish colonies in
> North America were not characterized by much musical cultural growth, and
> there is little evidence of lute playing or making in those times. Musical
> instruments (lutes included) tended to get lef
At 09:21 AM 12/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Some interesting stuff regarding the origin of Chaconne and Passacaglia
>and the new world.
>
>http://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3chacna.htm
From this website: "The Chacona (a.k.a. Passacaglia), is considered a Spanish
Folk dance but originally came
: Renaissance america - a little more lute related, maybe
Dear all,
--- Carl Donsbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Early colonial life was hard! The early English and
> Spanish colonies in
> North America were not characterized by much musical
> cultural growth, and
>
> Enough, the members of this list are from various countries and opinions.
> And some hold those opinions rather strongly. (BTW RT, I can send you a
> photo of fine Celtic metalwork from 700 BC, as preserved in a museum in
> Germany).
Only if it pertains to string manufacture.
RT
__
R
> trend of mentality. At least there are such brave heartful people there tha=
> t do all the hard work and diffuse early music ,and culture in general , th=
> rough public radios, fundraisings and community activity. No culturally-gen=
> erous French or German state giving there (actually, i don't
Yes, and IFs are the fiction writers' prerogative.
RT
> Historians may retrospectively analyze the whys
> PD
>
>>> As it stands today you are correct, however if America was not involved in
>>> WWII Hitler would not have been forced to fight a two front war at either
>>> end of the Continent, Russ
> In my opinion Roman, you might do well to read up on Mao Tse-tung representing
> the Communists, Chiang Kai-shek representing the
> Guomintang, and their supply routes known as the Burma Road and the Hump.
1.My grandfather was training Chisese pilots in 1944. Notably how to eat, as
rice based die
Historians may retrospectively analyze the whys
PD
> > As it stands today you are correct, however if America was not involved in
> > WWII Hitler would not have been forced to fight a two front war at either
> > end of the Continent, Russia would not have had American assistance
> > financially a
--- Antonio Corona <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Incidentally, the Spanish "Ordenanzas de violeros",
> that is, the regulations of the guild of
> vihuela-makers (who also made lutes), first
> published
> in Seville in 1502, were reprinted verbatim for the
> guild of Mexican "violeros" in 1568. Th
-- Original Message -
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "LUTE-LIST" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: Renaissance america
> >
> > But my original question still remains unanswered: Why this J
Dear all,
--- Carl Donsbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Early colonial life was hard! The early English and
> Spanish colonies in
> North America were not characterized by much musical
> cultural growth, and
> there is little evidence of lute playing or making
> in those times. Musical
rosinfiorini wrote:
> The weird thing i learned recently is that the American president had a Jap=
> anese code decoded some days before Pearl Harbour and knew about the attack=
> but needed pretext to enter (highly unpopular at home) war so...he ordered=
> the radars at Pearl Harbour to be shut (
, December 09, 2004 10:22 PM
To: Stuart LeBlanc; lute list
Subject: Re: Renaissance america
> Likewise in the east, the Japanese had secured most of the strategic points in
> the Pacific Rim and China, and were well on their way
> to take down Australia. But between the Chinese insurgenc
>>>Did you ever stop to think what this
> >>> world would be without America as has evolved?=20
*
America has not Evolved--Ray Bradbury has evolved, kurt Vonnegut has evolve=
d, even Bruce Springsteen has evolved, Norman Mailer may-be too, Tom Waits =
(hehe) etc, etc, you name 'em, there so many
convent and Congo Square are just a few blocks from where I'm typing
this message, btw.
-Original Message-
From: Carl Donsbach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Renaissance america - a little more
> Likewise in the east, the Japanese had secured most of the strategic points in
> the Pacific Rim and China, and were well on their way
> to take down Australia.
Not a bad thing in itself, if you consider those potential cello pins for
lutes
RT
To get on or off this list see list infor
> Likewise in the east, the Japanese had secured most of the strategic points in
> the Pacific Rim and China, and were well on their way
> to take down Australia. But between the Chinese insurgency and the massive
> American campaign, their resources became stretched too
> thin. Again, please enl
rom: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 7:52 AM
To: Stuart LeBlanc; lute list
Subject: OT: Renaissance america
> I'm no military historian
Obviously not.
> but really, did the Russian accomplishment consist
> of anything besides simply abso
>
> But my original question still remains unanswered: Why this Jab at America?
> I thought this was a forum to discuss the Lute and things related.
No jabs. It was just a bit difficult to leave LeBlanc's uneducated insult
uncommented.
RT
--
http://polyhymnion.org/torban
To get on or off th
> As it stands today you are correct, however if America was not involved in
> WWII Hitler would not have been forced to fight a two front war at either
> end of the Continent, Russia would not have had American assistance
> financially and technically and the entire outcome of the war would have
>
t;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12/09/2004 05:51 Subject: Re:
Thoughts, random and disjointed...
Early colonial life was hard! The early English and Spanish colonies in
North America were not characterized by much musical cultural growth, and
there is little evidence of lute playing or making in those times. Musical
instruments (lutes included) tended t
Italy was out of the picture during the time America was being colonized but
to see what effect a similar culture (Spain) would have, you need only look
south of the US at Mexico.
While puritans colonized Massachusets, most of the rest of the Atlantic
colonies were settled by more rational peop
TECTED]>; "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:52 AM
Subject: OT: Renaissance america
> > I'm no military historian
> Obviously not.
>
>
> > but really, did the Russian accomplishment consist
> > of anything besides simp
ROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Renaissance america
> > What brought on this jab at America? Did you ever stop to think what
this
> > world would be without America as has evolved? You for one would be
> > drinking Schnapps and goose st
Roman wrote:
>
> Stewart wrote:
>
>> I'm no military historian
>
> Obviously not.
There's a lot of that going around it seems.
>> but really, did the Russian accomplishment consist
>> of anything besides simply absorbing the German assault
>> (astounding as that may be)?
>
> A minor thing inde
> from [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
> "Would be cool. Like i was thinking recently, what if America was not
> conquered and developed under the sign of stiff puritans but by the Italians
> (without the Savanarola part though-hehe)just when there was the Renaissance
> and everything went renaissancewise...
>> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 22:01:48 -0500
>> To: Vance Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, lute list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: Renaissance america
>>
>>> What brought on this jab at America? Did you ever stop to think
> I'm no military historian
Obviously not.
> but really, did the Russian accomplishment consist
> of anything besides simply absorbing the German assault
> (astounding as that may be)?
A minor thing indeed, at the cost 20,000,000.00 lives on the Russian side
alone. More than 20 times the US casu
That's right, RT, just think of the enormous contributions made by Mother
Russia in the Pacific.
> From: Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 22:01:48 -0500
> To: Vance Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, lute list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> <[EMAIL
>Do you have many friends in America, Rosi?
>David Cameron
Yes
-
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! Try it today!
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Certainly some friend in Italy
Paolo Declich
> from [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
> "Would be cool. Like i was thinking recently, what if America was not
> conquered and developed under the sign of stiff puritans but by the Italians
> (without the Savanarola part though-hehe)just when there was the Renai
from [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
"Would be cool. Like i was thinking recently, what if America was not
conquered and developed under the sign of stiff puritans but by the Italians
(without the Savanarola part though-hehe)just when there was the Renaissance
and everything went renaissancewise...Thiw part of
ollowed in that
scenario.
-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:02 PM
To: Vance Wood; lute list; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Renaissance america
> What brought on this jab at America? Did you ever stop to think what
> What brought on this jab at America? Did you ever stop to think what this
> world would be without America as has evolved? You for one would be
> drinking Schnapps and goose stepping your way to world conquest, or in some
> camp somewhere because some little bureaucrat with power over your life
profound dislike to the color of your eyes or the shape of your nose.
Vance Wood.
- Original Message -
From: "rosinfiorini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:06 PM
Subject: Renaissance america
>
> >
> >
You should mark things like this "OT"
rosinfiorini wrote:
> what if America was not conquered and developed under the sign of stiff
> puritans
It wasn't, except one small part which is largely catholic now.
HP
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>
> > Normally people like you give away free bibles. How
> > about a free viol? :-)
> >
> > Stephan
Would be cool. Like i was thinking recently, what if America was not conquered
and developed under the sign of stiff puritans but by the Italians (without the
Savanarola part though-hehe)just
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