LyX-to-LaTeX roundtrips (was: Re: why people give up on open source software)

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Scott Kostyshak wrote: > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Hal Kierstead > wrote: >> On Oct 26, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Steve Litt wrote: >> LOL, how can you expect fast advances when the LyX pretty much became >>> perfect in 2004? I mean, really, name me one serio

Re: why people give up on open source software

I do my CVs (in German and English, hence 2) in the EuroPass format. (Google is your friend here). Unfortunately there is no LyX module for it which really works (for me) so I use the LaTeX version(s) with TeXshop. That is ok, because it doesn't change a lot and the changes are easy (the odd publ

Re: why people give up on open source software

No, hed doesn't, he "got into the program" :-)-O el On 2013-10-23 18:50 , Ernesto Posse wrote: > You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including > LyX, is developed by *volunteers*, do you? > > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer > wrote: [.

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/26/13 1:25 PM, John Coppens wrote: On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 17:53:35 -0600 Ken Springer wrote: But, as I wrote in news://news.gmane.org:119/l4bi37$vh$1...@ger.gmane.org, if I help by reporting bugs I find in a program, assuming that reporting is requested by developers, shouldn't there be som

Re: why people give up on open source software

Ken, you are not the one doing the fixing. The ones doing the fixing are the ones deserving of gratitude and the ones doing the real work, far more than the ones reporting the bugs. Reporting bugs (politely) is always appreciated. Reporting bugs while insulting, and trashing the *volunteer* work an

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/26/13 10:17 AM, Steve Litt wrote: On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 17:53:35 -0600 Ken Springer wrote: I'm not a programmer, learned many years ago that is not for me. But I did contribute, for free, to writing the help files of a commercial program for a platform now long gone. But, as I wrote in n

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 17:53:35 -0600 Ken Springer wrote: > But, as I wrote in news://news.gmane.org:119/l4bi37$vh$1...@ger.gmane.org, > if I help by reporting bugs I find in a program, assuming that reporting > is requested by developers, shouldn't there be some thanks shown by > fixing the bug?

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 10:32:05 +1300 John O'Gorman wrote: > On 26/10/13 04:12, Bruce Pourciau wrote: > > On Oct 25, 2013, at 2:49 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > > > > > For me, LyX is in fact a killer app, in the sense that it has killed any > > need or desire to have an affair, a one night s

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Hal Kierstead wrote: > > On Oct 26, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > >> On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 09:49:13 +0200 >> Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> >>> 25/10/2013 02:37, Ken Springer: Just a question, does viable equate something that will be successful

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Oct 26, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 09:49:13 +0200 > Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > >> 25/10/2013 02:37, Ken Springer: >>> Just a question, does viable equate something that will be >>> successful in the long run? >> >> It is already successful. We have users,

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:28:44 +1300 Bryan Baldwin wrote: > On 10/26/2013 02:08 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > > And that may be the origin of the problem, SINCE IN ALL CAPS IT IS > > PLAIN UNREADABLE AND THUS NO ONE WILL ACTUALLY READ IT. > > That's backwards. Its part of the solution. It doesn't m

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 09:49:13 +0200 Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > 25/10/2013 02:37, Ken Springer: > > Just a question, does viable equate something that will be > > successful in the long run? > > It is already successful. We have users, LyX continues to advance, > although at a frustratingly sl

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 17:53:35 -0600 Ken Springer wrote: > I'm not a programmer, learned many years ago that is not for me. But > I did contribute, for free, to writing the help files of a commercial > program for a platform now long gone. > > But, as I wrote in > news://news.gmane.org:119/l4bi3

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 12:55:37 -0600 Richard Talley wrote: > On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ken Springer > wrote: > > > > > I can't speak for Rich, but it was not my intent to leave an > > impression of "mass exodus". Just my pulling back from the > > potential promise I saw that open source

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/26/2013 02:08 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: And that may be the origin of the problem, SINCE IN ALL CAPS IT IS PLAIN UNREADABLE AND THUS NO ONE WILL ACTUALLY READ IT. That's backwards. Its part of the solution. It doesn't matter if you read it

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 26/10/13 04:12, Bruce Pourciau wrote: On Oct 25, 2013, at 2:49 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: For me, LyX is in fact a killer app, in the sense that it has killed any need or desire to have an affair, a one night stand, or even flirt with any other app. I write long, structured papers tha

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/25/2013 11:12 AM, Bruce Pourciau wrote: For me, LyX is in fact a killer app, in the sense that it has killed any need or desire to have an affair, a one night stand, or even flirt with any other app. I write long, structured papers that contain mathematics, figures, cross-references, and

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Oct 25, 2013, at 2:49 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > 25/10/2013 02:37, Ken Springer: >> Just a question, does viable equate something that will be successful in >> the long run? > > It is already successful. We have users, LyX continues to advance, although > at a frustratingly slow pace

Re: why people give up on open source software

> You think you are owed an explanation of how everything you download > and run works. That could be a mistake. These licenses generally > state, "AS IS WITH NO WARRANTY OR MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A > PARTICULAR PURPOSE". Its usually printed all or in part in all > captial letters. And tha

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > What I mean is that I do not want personally to create some kind of killer > app, > ..which LyX already is. I like the gasp of people, who have been inflicted with LaTeX, when I show them how easy and straightforward it is to create do

Re: why people give up on open source software

25/10/2013 02:37, Ken Springer: Just a question, does viable equate something that will be successful in the long run? It is already successful. We have users, LyX continues to advance, although at a frustratingly slow pace these days. But in some sense, the fact that we continue to advance i

Re: Getting Support: was: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 1:27 PM, Steve Litt wrote: On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:32:55 -0600 Ken Springer wrote: Product support, customer service, in general, sucks. Online, offline, commercial, open source, just about everywhere. For software these days, you are supposed to join a forum. If I went back thro

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/25/2013 01:29 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 10/24/13 5:13 PM, Bryan Baldwin wrote: On 10/25/2013 05:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: We know your argument. Seriously, We've heard it everywhere all

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 8:32 AM, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: 24/10/2013 15:59, Ken Springer: There is also the segment of the open source area where they actively ask you to file bugs that can be fixed. Then the bugs just sit there, never getting fixed. If you aren't going to actively fix the bugs, then d

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 12:55 PM, Richard Talley wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ken Springer mailto:snowsh...@q.com>> wrote: I can't speak for Rich, but it was not my intent to leave an impression of "mass exodus". Just my pulling back from the potential promise I saw that open so

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 5:13 PM, Bryan Baldwin wrote: On 10/25/2013 05:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: We know your argument. Seriously, We've heard it everywhere all the time...end-less-ly. Everybody wishes that their software was robust with magic documentation and free specialists that will fix your problem

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 11:35 AM, Walter van Holst wrote: On 24/10/2013 07:32, Richard Talley wrote: I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for everything until it's time to print, then they export to LaTeX. Good

Re: why people give up on open source software

I'm not a programmer, learned many years ago that is not for me. But I did contribute, for free, to writing the help files of a commercial program for a platform now long gone. But, as I wrote in news://news.gmane.org:119/l4bi37$vh$1...@ger.gmane.org, if I help by reporting bugs I find in a p

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/24/13 9:03 AM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Ken Springer mailto:snowsh...@q.com>> wrote: Hi, Jürgen, Interspersed reply... On 10/24/13 1:01 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: 2013/10/24 Ken Springe Not professional ? R

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/25/2013 05:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: We know your argument. Seriously, We've heard it everywhere all the time...end-less-ly. Everybody wishes that their software was robust with magic documentation and free specialists that will fix your

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 25/10/2013 3:32 a.m., Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: I cannot speak for other free (as in freedom) software, but the deal is simple: programmers do what they can and scratch their own itches, either because they need a feature or they want to implement it, and users do what they want and scrat

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Walter van Holst wrote: > On 24/10/2013 07:32, Richard Talley wrote: >> I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project >> management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for >> everything until it's time to print, then they ex

Getting Support: was: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:32:55 -0600 Ken Springer wrote: > Product support, customer service, in general, sucks. Online, > offline, commercial, open source, just about everywhere. For > software these days, you are supposed to join a forum. If I went > back through all my forum posts asking for

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ken Springer wrote: > > I can't speak for Rich, but it was not my intent to leave an impression of > "mass exodus". Just my pulling back from the potential promise I saw that > open source has, but IMO is not doing a good job of meeting. I think > Canonical is

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 24/10/2013 07:32, Richard Talley wrote: > I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project > management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for > everything until it's time to print, then they export to LaTeX. Good > luck with it. A somewhat close analog to

Re: why people give up on open source software

easonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress, therefore, depends on unreasonable people." Another puzzler: someone has a problem with a single LaTeX package, generalizes it to all Open Source (except LyX), and t

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > Hi, Jürgen, > > Interspersed reply... > > > On 10/24/13 1:01 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > >> 2013/10/24 Ken Springe >> >> Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. >> >> >> Not sure how you feel, so no reply. >> >> He's seri

Re: why people give up on open source software

24/10/2013 15:59, Ken Springer: There is also the segment of the open source area where they actively ask you to file bugs that can be fixed. Then the bugs just sit there, never getting fixed. If you aren't going to actively fix the bugs, then don't ask for help in identifying those bugs. This

Re: why people give up on open source software

Hi, Jürgen, Interspersed reply... On 10/24/13 1:01 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: 2013/10/24 Ken Springe Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Not sure how you feel, so no reply. He's serious, and so am I: if you want "professional" software and think LyX is not profession

Re: why people give up on open source software

You do seem to have very strong opinions about open-source, and demand very high standards. Would you care to tell us how many open-source projects have you created or at least been an active developer in? On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > I do, but that's no excuse for bei

Re: why people give up on open source software

omeone has a problem with a single LaTeX package, generalizes it to all Open Source (except LyX), and then somehow turns that into "why people give up on open source software", as if there's some kind of mass exodus from Open Source. How does THAT work? My observation is that Open Source

Re: why people give up on open source software

2013/10/24 Ken Springe > > Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. >> > > Not sure how you feel, so no reply. He's serious, and so am I: if you want "professional" software and think LyX is not professional (or if it does not fit your needs for other reasons), don't use it. Sine ira et studi

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > > > LyX looks to be rather out of the box from you basic office suite > thinking, and I want to get that under control before getting into any > tweaking. > As you get started with LyX resist the temptation to 'finger paint'. You get some

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 2:31 PM, Richard Talley wrote: Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying with canned responses. Most of the t

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 10:34 AM, Les Denham wrote: On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600 Richard Talley wrote: Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good, under development for seven years. Richard, That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out, rather sketc

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 12:42 PM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote: Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41: I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Not sure how

Re: why people give up on open source software

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying with canned responses. My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I started

Re: why people give up on open source software

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41: I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. Not professional ? Right, don't use it then. Vincent

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote: On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a commercial program in the marketplace. And they add new features, some of which are inevitable buggy. But the attitude exhibited by not f

Re: why people give up on open source software

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are trying to do. Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional. I do have some "free" software installed, some open source, some not. But I get updates and bug fixes from the "free" software, not so much from the open

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a commercial program in the marketplace. And they add new features, some of which are inevitable buggy. But the attitude exhibited by not fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.

Re: why people give up on open source software

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is developed by *volunteers*, do you? On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote: > On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote: > >> I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical >> manuals

Re: why people give up on open source software

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote: I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I'm helping a fri

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600 Richard Talley wrote: > Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good, > under development for seven years. Richard, That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out, rather sketchy. But with a little effort I managed a

Re: why people give up on open source software

Richard Talley írta: >I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical >manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me >deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. >LyX really came through for me. >Now I'm helping a friend apply to gradua

Re: why people give up on open source software

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Richard Talley wrote: > I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical > manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal > with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. > > LyX really came through for me. > >

why people give up on open source software

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk. LyX really came through for me. Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the KOMA-