Re: [Marxism] "Totalitarianism"

Geoffrey Wildanger wrote: > > If you want to know how we come to make sense of the world around us-- > or, rather, how that world around us works around and in us--it seems > it might be important to care about the things that Marx, Lenin, > Trotsky and others said about it. > Aside from this bein

Re: [Marxism] Everyone's watching us

So are we about to get a break from conspicuous consumption by the banksters? Somehow I doubt it. Conspicuous consumption is built into the credit system and their life styles. regards Gary YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a mes

Re: [Marxism] "Totalitarianism"

waistli...@aol.com wrote: > No, I have not read Hegel either and have > no desire to because I read him several times and consider him insane. This statement seems to be contradictory - and not in the Hegelian sense. > That > is the contradcition. I read him and he makes no sense. But I sta

Re: [Marxism] "Totalitarianism"

My statement was not meant in a religious sense, though I understand how it was interpreted as such. I am merely saying that the cultural and economic structures seem to have an effect on reigning doxa. My question is how you come to make sense of the world without using a sort of theoretica

[Marxism] The US Is making war against Democracy - NOT Drugs.

Estimated cocaine imports to United States: 260 tons per year -- http://www.ppionline.org "United States: world's largest consumer of cocaine (shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean)..." -- https

Re: [Marxism] "Totalitarianism"

I don't think your point from the Grundsrisse has nothing to do with what was under discussion. Nor do I think that the Soviet treatment of the Germans can be simply dismissed as the imprisonment of the USSR by modernism. I believe that the past needs to be explained rather than excused, though

Re: [Marxism] Leftist comments on new "media law" in Venezuela?

So, basically, international bourgeois media - plus institutions like Human Rights Watch - were LYING massively?   Would that be you´re conclusion, cde Fred?   The law that all the larger media outlets mentioned or commented was called "Ley Especial Contra Delitos Mediáticos". http://media.eluniv

Re: [Marxism] On "progressive evolution": Was: End of short unhappy li fe of"engagement"withIra

I think that Marx hit the nail on the head when he wrote in a letter to Ferdinand Lassalle: "Darwin’s work is most important and suits my purpose in that it provides a basis in natural science for the historical class struggle. ... Despite all shortcomings, it is here that, for the first ti

Re: [Marxism] End of short unhappy lifeof"engagement"withIranRe:FredFeldman

In his latest emasculation of Marx’s ideas, Jscotlive (J) after running the usual script on the dialectic, which as far as it goes might have been written by the old Jozef himself, throws this little beauty in for good measure: “And here we return to the objective behind Sartesian's mish-ma

[Marxism] South Africa protests

From: Z Net - The Spirit Of Resistance Lives URL:http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/1 The elite and community protests in South Africa August 05, 2009 By Shawn Hattingh Over the last few weeks in South Africa, community protests and land occupations have once again erupted

[Marxism] “Come on, let’s have a velvet re volution”

(Go to link below to see Youtube videos of "confessions" http://trueslant.com/marcherman/2009/08/05/mass-confession-to-treason-in-iran/ Mass Confession to Treason in Iran Sorta. A few days ago, an unknown group started collecting webcam-recorded confessions to efforts to undermine the governmen

[Marxism] Jean-Marie Bigard

Since comedy is the order of the day, famous French actor and comedian Jean-Marie Bigard has gotten into hot water by posting a series of comedic videos (5 so far) highlighting oddities in the Ashcroft/Zelikow/Proyect line regarding the 11 September 2001 operation. http://www.dailymotion.com/r

[Marxism] another good report from Tegucigalpa

Flashpoints, again, fearturing Andres Thomas Conteris, founder of DN! en Espanol. Detailing efforts by the coupsters to crush a teachers' protest and shut down the few remaining media hostile to the coup. http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/52949 YOU

[Marxism] Red Army and rape

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/may/01/news.features11 'They raped every German female from eight to 80' Antony Beevor, author of the acclaimed new book about the fall of Berlin, on a massive war crime committed by the victorious Red Army. * Antony Beevor * The Guardian, Wednesday

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

"This does not mean Satanizing Stalin or the USSR. But we should accept that on the POLITICAL side, the war was waged as a war of revenge against the German people not as a war of liberation from Fascism AND capitalism." Everything you say is accepted except the point above. I want to see evidenc

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

Thank you! > A rough translation of the content: > This is a description of what leadership of the Red Army did against rapes. > It says that the leadership first tried to stop the rape of German women. > But with little success. Then since early autumn 1945 the punishment could > take an arrest

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

Aren't you purists forgetting what the Nazis did to Soviet womanhood George YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/o

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

Aren't you purists forgetting what the Nazis did to Soviet womanhood George Why is that relevant? And is your definition of a "purist" someone who acknowledges widespread rape and abuse and sympathizes with its victims? YOU MUST clip al

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

2009/8/5 Bhaskar Sunkara Aren't you purists forgetting what the Nazis did to Soviet womanhood George "Why is that relevant?" This is relevant because every soldier in the Red Army suffered from the loss of his relatives either by rape or otherwise by Nazis. -- Dogan Göcmen

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

Who started the war George Anthony YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] End of short unhappylifeof"engagement"withIranRe:FredFeldmans

S. Artesian wrote: > We can trade insults J, but be sure to clear yours with the Ayatollahs. > > can you guys cool it for a while and move on to other subjects? or at least ignore each other for a while? > Perhaps, given the two dispassionate and intelligent interventions by > comrades Fa

[Marxism] On who won WWII?

Nestor made a comment in passing on the "Totalitarian" thread (which seemed to calm down and drain away the "Rivers of Blood" discussion on Trotsky vs Stalin") about how WWII was won in Stalingrad and Kursk and not at Normandy etc. [It's funny because this is not the Soviet view. In fact, it's

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

And I suppose if hundreds of thousands of Afghan women were to be raped by US soldiers you would mention 9/11? German civilians who were victimized should be acknowledged as victims, that was probably the reason why Louis posted those excerpts. YOU

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and dancing corpses

2009/8/5 "There were a good many mistakes, and a great deal of tragedy in the world's first attempt to construct a socialist state. It is important to study that record seriously and understand it for what it was, and what it was not." This is exactly what needs to be done bur never buy in the a

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

This is the point where the discussion becomes more than inane; it becomes downright oppressive. We go from arguing that Russia wanted to keep Germany intact and was trying to make a class, or semi-class distinction, between the people and the fascists; to arguing about whether or not rape was

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

My compliments to you, Mr. Artesian. You are a voice of sanity in this thread. Art Kunkin On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 9:31 AM, S. Artesian wrote: > This is the point where the discussion becomes more than inane; it becomes > downright oppressive. > > We go from arguing that Russia wanted to keep Germ

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

2009/8/5 S. Artesian > This is the point where the discussion becomes more than inane; it becomes > downright oppressive. > > In this debate I said everything I can contribute and I think generally that everything is said what is to be said. - Dogan Göcmen (http://dogangocmen.wordpress.com/)

Re: [Marxism] 98% of Clean Energy Research Proposals Rejected by Obama

to be clear on this, we would need to see how many applications were received this year relative to previous years. it is a feeding frenzy out there right now. i know universities are scrambling to get some of the stimulus money. i read that NIH proposals are up by a factor of TEN this year ove

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

midhurs...@aol.com> wrote: > Aren't you purists forgetting what the Nazis did to Soviet womanhood > George > I didn't, but you lot ignored it. And, if you let the Nazis set the bar, what does that tell us? Still, I am grateful that Mindhurst has o

Re: [Marxism] 98% of Clean Energy Research Proposals Rejected by Obama

Yes, it's a cluster*ck of lobbying. It mirrors in a bizarre mutated way the lobby groups for insurance have tried to kill healthcare reform (Obama's plan specifically). I've been trying to follow the energy debate and it's so centrifugal in nature as to be incomprehensible. About the only thing

[Marxism] On "progressive evolution": Was: End of short unhappy life of"engagement"withIra

Frankly, I don't have to distort your formulation, it was so moronic. Maybe you should stick to the dialectical mental masturbation you've been indulging in. No, peabrain, I wouldn't consider that "progress" -- an inapplicable, anthropocentric term, to boot --  for the reasons I've already stated.

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

But if the Soviet Union had NOT waged the war as a "National", "Patriotic", war, every unit to the last soldier would have known that their duty once they crossed the border was to GAIN THE GERMAN PEOPLE, AND ITS WORKING CLASS, for socialism. Massive rape and loot, on our side, the side of

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

Well, I never thought I'd say this, making a political justification for mass rape is probably preferable to defending it by pretending it never happened. All of this came from the politics, from how the Soviets chose to regard the Germans...as nationally subhuman and beast.. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009

[Marxism] clip quoted text (was: this and that)

as always, when a debate heats up, the text clipping disappears. remember, everyone, clip quoted text. Les YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: ht

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape (Soldiers and socialism)

Nestor wrote: >Had the war been waged as a war for >the extension of socialism, >officers on the field, and every soldier >to the last, would have had strict >political orders to repress rapists >on the spot. Shootings included, if >necessary. It is politics that leads >war, not the other wa

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

Nestor Gorojovsky wrote: > Dogan Gocmen escribió: >> To claim that there was a mass rape of women of all age would require to >> show evidence and further qualification. Was is it for example an >> intentional act or a spontaneous act. That there were rapes of German women >> is known and people f

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

At 14:13 05/08/09 EDT, WL2 wrote: >The Soviet armed forces should have not "looted" Germany? Why not? Well lots of reasons why not. But more importantly, this was a discussion about mass RAPE, which you address in terms of LOOTING = stealing PROPERTY. Did I get that right?? Your "old Indian story

Re: [Marxism] Leftist comments on new "media law" in Venezuela?

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Adam Berg wrote: > So, basically, international bourgeois media - plus institutions like Human > Rights Watch - were LYING massively? > The Attorney General Luisa Ortega, presented her proposal for such a law (the one you provide a link to). As in many other countr

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

waistli...@aol.com wrote: The Soviet armed forces should have not “looted� Germany? Why not? Why should Germany not have been “looted?� To save the German workers? Germany should have been liberated of an equivalent value equal to that in which she took from the Soviet workers as

Re: [Marxism] Question for German comrades

Einde O'Callaghan (eind...@freenet.de) wrote on 2009-08-04 at 13:19:22 in about Re: [Marxism] Question for German comrades: > > > It was however among local officials of the IGMetall that one of the > initiatives arose that led to the founding of the WASG, which fused with > the PDS to form D

Re: [Marxism] Peaceful coexistence [was Re: Red Army and rape]

midhurs...@aol.com (midhurs...@aol.com) wrote on 2009-08-05 at 12:59:19 in about Re: [Marxism] Peaceful coexistence [was Re: Red Army and rape]: > > > The Nazis imprisoned the Communist's in the concentration camps before > anyone else > Anything else you want to know? How many communist

Re: [Marxism] Leftist comments on new "media law" in Venezuela?

On Aug 5, 2009, at 3:08 PM, Fred Fuentes wrote: > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:11 AM, Adam Berg > wrote: >> So, basically, international bourgeois media - plus institutions >> like Human Rights Watch - were LYING massively? >> > > The Attorney General Luisa Ortega, presented her proposal for such

Re: [Marxism] On "progressive evolution": Was: End of short unhappy life of"engagement"withIra

On Aug 5, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Michael Friedman wrote: > Mage's -- point[s] of view on this put[s] > [him] squarely in the creationists' camp, not because of content, but > because of methodology... That scientific orthodoxy is Friedman's doxy we know all too well. But does he really mean that a

[Marxism] Israel Seeks Ways to Silence Human Rights Groups

> > Israel Seeks Ways to Silence Human Rights Groups > > First goal is to stop Gaza war crimes revelations > > By Jonathan Cook in Nazareth > > Groups reported to be in the foreign ministry’s sights are: B’Tselem, whose > activities include providing Palestinians with cameras to record abuses by >

[Marxism] Red Army and rape

Sartesian: As for "every soldier in the Red Army suffering loss of relatives by rape or otherwise," that too is just not the case. Nothing was more horrific that the casualties and brutality suffered over such an extended period of time by the Red Army and the Soviet population. However, b

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

"Please comrades, learn some deep appreciation of what the world suffered from fascism and forget arguing about what might have been if some of the political struggles in the Soviet Union had concluded differently. The Soviet Union survived the greatest war in history - and saved us all." Dear Pa

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

Me: >>> Alright, "expropriate" what? This was a discussion about rape of women. >Exactly what does the proletariat have a right to "expropriate?" > >Is this all in my head, or do we have a different idea of what constitutes >"property?" <<< > >- Jeff Your direct response (below) totally misses

[Marxism] "Rape instinct"??

At 16:40 05/08/09 EDT, jscotl...@aol.com wrote: > >The notion that the Soviet troops would be shorn of the same human base >instincts when involved in such a brutal war as any other troops is >idealistic in the extreme. I won't even start on this one - Jeff _

Re: [Marxism] Peaceful coexistence [was Re: Red Army and rape]

>> How many German and other communists were murdered in the USSR? Why did the Kreml not demand the release of Ernst Thälmann in exchange for its role playing Hitler's quartermaster?<< Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt, Germany Comment I cannot answer either question because I do not know

[Marxism] "Rape instinct"??

Jeff, quoting me: The notion that the Soviet troops would be shorn of the same human base >instincts when involved in such a brutal war as any other troops are >idealistic in the extreme. Then writes: I won't even start on this one Reply: Well, let's see. If, as I do, you consider r

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

The Battle of El Alamein was a side show But important for Churchill and the reason he joined the war on the side of progress, to save the British Empire After all the Germans had colonies in Africa that had been lost after WW1 Chamberlain was an appeaser and the British ruling class was riddled

Re: [Marxism] "Rape instinct"??

  I think there is a problem in using the word "instinct" here... When you put homo sapien in a war, with all its debasement of personalities, you get atrocities. This is empirically true. That the behavior is a not-uncommon response by many homo sapiens  in this given situation does not make

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

For the truth about the Pearl Harbour stitch up read "Day of Deceit" by Robert B Stinnet George Anthony YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http:/

Re: [Marxism] Peaceful coexistence [was Re: Red Army and rape]

You tell me Where did you get our information? Readers Digest or Comic Cuts George Anthony YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.u

Re: [Marxism] Question for German comrades

Have you forgotten the role of Karl Leibnicht and Rosa Luxembourg And the premature rising just before the end of the war, where a block of flats took up arms and were murdered for their pains The KPD was never destroyed by Hitler and functioned illegally inside and outside the concentration ca

[Marxism] Thinking Left in Bolivia: Interview with Alvaro Garcia Linera

Thinking Left in Bolivia: Interview with Alvaro Garcia Linera Linda Farthing, August 3, 2009 Bolivian Vice President Álvaro García Linera first became passionate about politics during the widespread resistance to the Hugo Banzer dictatorship in 1979. Soon after, he left Bolivia to train as a math

Re: [Marxism] "Rape instinct"??

At 17:18 05/08/09 EDT, you wrote: > >Well, let's see. If, as I do, you consider rape a form of violence yes... >, and the > purpose of war to inflict more violence on your enemy than they inflict on >you That sounds like a prescription for war crimes of every sort! War is normally defended as ha

Re: [Marxism] Red Army and rape

Geez you are an insufferable moron. A claim was made and utilized, as an excuse, a rationalization for rape that EVERY Red Army soldier had lost a relative to rape or some other barbaric practice. Every. That was the claim. I don't remember you asking for any documentation of the "every."

[Marxism] Moderator's note

1. A number of comrades are overposting. The limit is 5 posts per day. Please keep track. 2. Comrades are beginning to become abusive. This is the main reason that I try to steer conversations away from anything having to do with the USSR. 3. I urge you to write one last thing on the Red Army,

Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

Provided I'm not provoked, this is my last word George Anthony YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxis

Re: [Marxism] "Rape instinct"??

No dude, that's not a defense that is very helpful as it assumes that this happened and then makes excuses for it. Moreover, it is a slap in the face to the millions of soviet soldiers and partisans who didn't do things like that. I'm not sure what your experiences in war or military life are

[Marxism] video of open class warfare in S.Korea

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8185877.stm "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close up the factory with our Korean dead!' So bellows president Lee Myung-Bak. (I don't have any audio on the library computer I'm using, so excuse my ignorance as to the value of the

Re: [Marxism] On who won WWII?

nada escribió: > Nestor made a comment in passing on the "Totalitarian" thread (which > seemed to calm down and drain away the "Rivers of Blood" discussion on > Trotsky vs Stalin") about how WWII was won in Stalingrad and Kursk and > not at Normandy etc. > > [It's funny because this is not the

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

Paddy Apling escribió: > Because of his first paragraphs, I will excuse Nestor for the last paragraph > quoted above, because he has no experience of war Well, not of inter-imperialist war. That´s true. I know Paddy has that experience, so that I will refrain from any answer. But please remem

Re: [Marxism] Totalitarianism and Mass Rape

Nestor Gorojovsky wrote: > Paddy Apling escribió: > >> Because of his first paragraphs, I will excuse Nestor for the last paragraph >> quoted above, because he has no experience of war > > Well, not of inter-imperialist war. That´s true. > > I know Paddy has that experience, so that I will ref

Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

This discussion began with the assertion that the Soviets distinguished between Germans and the Nazi state. I objected to this as a fairy tale, mentioning in particular the mass rape of what was estimated as two million German females of all ages by elements of the Red Army. In response, we were

Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

Among all the military historians and war buffs fighting old battles, where o where is there a feminist socialist voice in this discussion? = Richard Levins YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Se

Re: [Marxism] Moderator's Note

Richard Levins wrote: Among all the military historians and war buffs fighting old battles, where o where is there a feminist socialist voice in this discussion? The few women who participate on this list, from what I understand, refer to it as marxmale. After perusing the discussion on rape, I w

Re: [Marxism] On who won WWII?

On Aug 5, 2009, at 7:44 PM, Nestor Gorojovsky wrote: > nada escribió: >> Nestor made a comment in passing on the "Totalitarian" thread (which >> seemed to calm down and drain away the "Rivers of Blood" discussion >> on >> Trotsky vs Stalin") about how WWII was won in Stalingrad and Kursk >> a

Re: [Marxism] Moderator's Note

Greg McDonald wrote: > Richard Levins wrote: > > After perusing the discussion on rape, I > would add "marxfail". I do hope 4chan memes aren't starting to enter this list. http://images.google.com/images?q=fail YOU MUST clip all extraneous text whe

[Marxism] Book announcement

7/30/09 Sisters and brothers, There are two pieces of good news regarding 51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis Edited by Lenni Brenner 1 - The hard cover edition, 3,300 copies, has completely sold out, showing that there is a lot of interest in the topic. 2 - A new trade paperbac

[Marxism] (Aug 5) S. Korea: Ssangyong sit-in workers' appeal: `Our lives are at stake' | Links

KMWU/KCTU: We desperately need International Labour Organisation to make some some kind of intervention asking South Korean government to call off this extraordinarily dangerous raid and participate in negotiations over alternatives to dismissal and a future for the plant. Our union members' li

[Marxism] Rape is not necessarily a consequence of war

In Susan Brownmiller's landmark book about rape, "Against Our Will", she discusses the politics of rape and war and finds that in fact, the Vietcong did not practice rape as a political policy. http://books.google.com/books?id=tHeoE5iJ1-sC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=rape+vietcong+brownmiller&source=

Re: [Marxism] On who won WWII?

Shane Mage: "Though the war was not "won in Stalingrad and Kursk," it was won (or, for the Wehrmacht, lost) in the sense of *decided* at Stalingrad and Kursk." Point taken. Probably more so that any *other* point. I actually think that the Stalingrad battle was decided before hand, by the Germans

[Marxism] Marxism: science and doctrine ...not philosophy

"There is no possibility of tactical unity with a section of the bourgeoisie." Science and Doctrine One of the major problems in the Marxist movement is the sectarianism that develops from a confusion of the merging of science, which develops without interruption, and doctrine, which cha

[Marxism] Flashpoints on Honduras

At the 30 minute mark, another fantastic report on the ground in Tegucigalpa from Tim Russo. Student resistance to a military crackdown and demands from the popular movement for a Constituent Assembly. This report is preceded by a half-hour interview with Jeremy Scahill on Blackwater. http:/

[Marxism] U.S. appears to soften support for Honduras's Zelaya

U.S. appears to soften support for Honduras's Zelaya Wed Aug 5, 2009 2:52pm EDT By Susan Cornwell http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5744L120090805 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. policy on Honduras' political crisis is not aimed at supporting any particular individual, the State Departm

Re: [Marxism] video of open class warfare in S.Korea

No commentary, not much sound either. Thanks for the link. > > (I don't have any audio on the library computer I'm using, so excuse my > ignorance as to the value of the commentary contained in the above link.) > > The very best, > Max Clark > YOU

[Marxism] Rape Instinct?

Tom Cod: No dude, that's not a defense that is very helpful as it assumes that this happened and then makes excuses for it. Moreover, it is a slap in the face to the millions of soviet soldiers and partisans who didn't do things like that. I'm not sure what your experiences in war or milita