I'm not sure this is quite true, I was reading somewhere they are
forced to buy equipment from elsewhere and that
equipment meets current nasty first world environmental standards
(such as they are), thus emissions are much
lower than oh say any usa coal fired plant given perhaps they are all
Tom asked:
"anyone want to re-consider having a nuclear power plant built in his or her
backyard?"
I will! Then my commute will be shorter...
Bob R.
If you live in the west and you flip on a light, think of me.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new parts see
ilt in his or her backyard?
Tom
www.kegkits.com
Original Message
From: Zoltan Finks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11/09/07 02:15 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ah another opportunity to float an opinion. You&#x
Randy mentioned:
"If we all drove non-turbo MB diesels from the 60's and 70's there would be
no need to dash from light to light."
It just doesn't look like I'm dashing. Believe me...more times than not I
have my foot in it. Trouble is, it looks like I'm putting along because all
the Lexi and Ac
nt: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:15 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Ah another opportunity to float an opinion. You're right, Rich, it is
informative and interesting to hear all of us sound off (and I've been
doing it a lot lately I know).
It is demoralizin
:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
On Nov 9, 2007 1:01 PM, R A Bennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Up here we do it with flowing water.
>
> Randy
>
Aaaa cheap government hydro. Love it.
>
> -Original Message-
Ah another opportunity to float an opinion. You're right, Rich, it is
informative and interesting to hear all of us sound off (and I've been
doing it a lot lately I know).
It is demoralizing to hear about what China and India and whoever else
are doing - seems it would more than cancel out anythin
Slinging neutrons around.
Bob R.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of LarryT
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:19 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Bob wrote:<>
Hi Bob,
Thanks for looking out for us
"LarryT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> IMO, nuclear is the only practical way to provide power to vast numbers of
> the population. Even France is fully committed to nukes.
So is China, even though they are also building the coal-fired plants.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/china.htm
PROTECTED]>
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'"
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> If we started planning to build a nuclear power plant today, construction
> would be complete in 16 years.
>
> And as far as I know, none are
; Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:19 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
>
>
> Bob wrote:<>
>
> Hi Bob,
> Thanks for looking out for us! BTW, how are you making electr?
> Solar? Wind? rubbing 2 sticks together? ;-)
>
: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
You are pretty much correct, but the problem is the rest of the
developing world wants to live exactly as we do here in the states (or
other developed countries) and they will burn everything in sight to get
there --coal, oil, trees, whatever.. Telling them to
Up here we do it with flowing water.
Randy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LarryT
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:19 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Bob wrote:<>
Hi Bob,
Thanks for looking o
OSTERS! youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Rentfro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'"
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
>
> A
ers.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net
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.
- Original Message -
From: "Allan Streib" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Die
You are pretty much correct, but the problem is the rest of the
developing world wants to live exactly as we do here in the states (or
other developed countries) and they will burn everything in sight to get
there --coal, oil, trees, whatever.. Telling them to stop or grow
greenly is a good th
me smile. :)
Dave H...
__
From: Allan Streib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:00:38 -0500
,
Tom Hargrave
www.kegkits.com
256-656-1924
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:01 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
"Robert Rentfro" <[EMAIL PROTE
"Robert Rentfro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 'Zactly. I read an article the other day that these plants are
> spewing out the goo at such an alarming rate that the people nearby
> are already dying from stuff that usually takes decades to kill
> people who live near power plants in the rest of t
Allan pointed out:
"And what do you think the chances are that they have all the
sophisticated scrubbers etc. on the stacks of these power plants they
are building?"
'Zactly. I read an article the other day that these plants are spewing out
the goo at such an alarming rate that the people nearby
"LarryT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> While listening to a debate on the energy situation and the US's
> lack of new power plant construction (zero new plants in the last 30
> years) - they reported that China is starting up a new coal fired
> power plant each *week* !! We all know how environme
Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Damn! Worse than I thought!
Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
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;Rich Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> No, it is 2-3 per week.
>
> --R
>
> LarryT wrote:
>> You wrote:<> elements driving the current oil cris
No, it is 2-3 per week.
--R
LarryT wrote:
> You wrote:< elements driving the current oil crises?>>
>
> While listening to a debate on the energy situation and the US's lack of new
> power plant construction (zero new plants in the last 30 years) - they
> reported that China is starting up a new
uot;Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> How about manufacturing in general? Building new cars has to have a huge
> impact on the ecology and on o
And to carry your logic a little further, why not just drive down hill
all the time?
Tom
www.kegkits.com
Original Message
From: LarryT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11/08/07 04:14 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yeah, there's a grocery co-op I sometimes go to in Seattle that makes
you feel guilty for requesting a grocery bag. I appreciate the effort
to help the enviro. on the grocery bag issue, but they really ought to
handle it better with the customers than assuming you don't need a
bag, then copping a '
: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> The bottom line is that the paper bag will likely compost itself to
> nothing but the plastic bag will be with us
> always. Even better is to carry your own re-usable
ssion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
>
>
> LarryT wrote:
>>
>> That's because the media has it's own agenda - which is Hybrid cars
>> regardless of the logic.
>
> What grinds my shorts is the fact t
alf Of Tom Hargrave
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:04 PM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
They are and always have been and always will be closed minded. Anyone
on a mission is.
I remember years ago during the first oil crises when the same mindset
w
Allan Streib wrote:
> "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Logic won the bag issue but I'm afrait it won't with hybrid
>> vehicles.
>
> Not everywhere. The local "organic" grocery does NOT use plastic
> bags. They encourage bringing your own shopping bags, otherwise you
> get paper b
"Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Logic won the bag issue but I'm afrait it won't with hybrid
> vehicles.
Not everywhere. The local "organic" grocery does NOT use plastic
bags. They encourage bringing your own shopping bags, otherwise you
get paper bags (unbleached recycled paper of
"Zoltan Finks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I suppose the hills around here make it a "good" choice. But I have
> always questioned the manufacturing/disposal processes of the
> batteries, etc. And this thread has added to my mind another issue
> that I have not thought a lot about: the environme
LarryT wrote:
>
> I've got it!! Put a windmill on the roof!! Drive and charge! ;-D
When I was 12, I designed a perpetual motion go kart.
Motive power supplied by a car battery, starter motor,
and alternator. The idea was to recharge with the alternator
on the fly. Never built it (fortunately
LarryT wrote:
>
> That's because the media has it's own agenda - which is Hybrid cars
> regardless of the logic.
What grinds my shorts is the fact that gov't picks a technology,
like hybrids, subsidizes it stupidly (would you rather have somebody
driving to work in a Prius or a passenger truc
D]>
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> They are and always have been and always will be closed minded. Anyone
> on a mission is.
>
> I remember years ago during the first oil crises wh
Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.
- Original Message -
From: "Mitch Haley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> andrew strasfogel wrote:
>>
>>
nlist.com/webercarbs
.
- Original Message -
From: "Rich Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> Yes! Especially during Daylight Savings Time -- you can
om: Zoltan Finks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11/08/07 03:54 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I like to analyze communities I visit or live in by the most commonly
seen cars there. Here on Bainbridge, I think that the Priu
I like to analyze communities I visit or live in by the most commonly
seen cars there. Here on Bainbridge, I think that the Prius even beats
the Subaru in sheer numbers. It's not uncommon to have three or more
of them in sight at once when driving down a two lane road.
I suppose the hills around h
---Original Message-----
> > From: "Jim Cathey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
> > Sent: 11/8/07 11:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> >
> > > the alum co built the smelter and the power co built
ssion List'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Sure, charge 2 days - drive one mile, charge 2 days - drive one mile,
charge 2 days - drive one mile.
Solar cells are terribly inefficiant.
Tom
www.kegkits.com
Original Message
From: andrew strasfogel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
S
Looked at a site related to electric boats last evening. They claim 8 hours on
a full charge and the boat has a
diesel generator on board that will essentially permit full time operation if
need be. The idea appeals as it would
be nice to have a quiet boat. Unfortunately, the batteries are heavy
andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
> Scr*w plug in hybrids. Just mount a PV arrray on the roof of the car
> to trickle charge the batteries in broad daylight. Doesn't that make
> more sense?
Well, you might fit 300-500W of PV in the roof, which would give you 1-3kwh
pre day if oriented to the south at
n List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Scr*w plug in hybrids. Just mount a PV arrray on the roof of the car
to trickle charge the batteries in broad daylight. Doesn't that make
more sense?
On Nov 8, 2007 3:39 PM, Tom Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes! Especially during Daylight Savings Time -- you can save more
of it!
--R
andrew strasfogel wrote:
> Scr*w plug in hybrids. Just mount a PV arrray on the roof of the car
> to trickle charge the batteries in broad daylight. Doesn't that make
> more sense?
>
>
>
_
s. They are a major
> supplier to the lower 48 States.
>
> Tom
> www.kegkits.com
>
> Original Message
> From: dave walton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 11/08/07 02:23 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=
That's because Canada has lots of cheap natural gas. They are a major
supplier to the lower 48 States.
Tom
www.kegkits.com
Original Message
From: dave walton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11/08/07 02:23 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels
with
> scrap and then lower a set of anodes. It's 100 percent electricity .
>
> Thanks, Tom
> 256-656-1924
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Jim Cathey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
> Sent: 11/8/07 11:21 AM
>
t: 11/8/07 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> the alum co built the smelter and the power co built a
> new *Electrical Generating Plant * just for the plant we were
building.
Both steel and aluminum require a lot of energy to refine. It's
just that steel can make
> the alum co built the smelter and the power co built a
> new *Electrical Generating Plant * just for the plant we were building.
Both steel and aluminum require a lot of energy to refine. It's
just that steel can make use of fuel heat directly whereas aluminum
requires it to be converted to ele
> I guess that's the thinking behind hybrids? But isn't there a penalty
> to
> hybrids which must drag all that electrical stuff around when it isn;t
> needed or being used? (like long trips)
The thinking behind hybrids is that the charge/discharge cycle
of the electric parts is more efficient t
http://members.rennlist.com/oil
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- Original Message -
From: "John M McIntosh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:35 AM
Sub
On Nov 8, 2007, at 8:02 AM, LarryT wrote:
> Along with the electrical consumption req'd to make steel is the power
> needed to make Aluminum - used in ever increasing amounts to save
> weight and
> increase mpg's. Alum needs much more electricity than steel.
Up here in the Pacific NW during t
ouroil.net
> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
> .
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rich Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hy
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- Original Message -
From: "LarryT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.
- Original Message -
From: "Rich Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
>I think the i
--- Original Message -
From: "Tom Hargrave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
> How about manufacturing in general? Building new cars has to have a huge
&g
I think the issue with diesel hybrids is that the diesel engine is even
more expensive than a gasser, which drives up the cost of the package
even higher, and the economics work even worse. The Prius is not
economically cost-effective compared to a straight gasser, even with the
deep discounts
I would imagine that a diesel hybrid would be the smartest way to go, at
least using currently available technology. I know that there are some out
there, at least in the prototype phase, but I can't see any real obstacle
for them. Thinking in terms of the last Golf TDI which got what 45mpg? If
st
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Diesels Vs Hybrids
Then there is the whole battery nastiness issue -- manufacturing and
disposal -- which is not negligible, but it is removed from view so you
can "feel" better about driving the Prius. And how one "feels" about
the issue is the most impo
Then there is the whole battery nastiness issue -- manufacturing and
disposal -- which is not negligible, but it is removed from view so you
can "feel" better about driving the Prius. And how one "feels" about
the issue is the most important aspect!
--R
LarryT wrote:
> This was in a industry
This was in a industry magazine I get called "Foriegn Car Parts &
Accessories"
A poll was conducted in UK recently evaluating peoples understanding of
emissions and modern diesels. 90% did not rate the current diesel
technology on a favorable standing with hybrids. The example used was the
Mi
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