Article in today's paper talks about stick shaker system putting the nose
down to get more air under the wings to hold the plane up. Nothing about
trying to increase airspeed. Another very knowledgeable reporter.
;))
Wilton
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
Wonko the Sane wrote:
There is more truth to that than you realize -- plus lots of USAF fighter
pilots (i.e., Sully).
Funny thing, my niece used to date a guy who was studying to be a jet pilot.
I asked him if the Officer and a Gentleman route was cheaper, and he told me
that the airlines
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Wonko the Sane wrote:
There is more truth to that than you realize -- plus lots of USAF
fighter
pilots (i.e., Sully).
Funny thing, my niece used to date a guy who was studying to be a jet
pilot.
I asked him if the Officer and a Gentleman
In thinking of the passengers, Gerry Niewood (soprano sax) and a guitarist
who were to perform with Chuck Mangione and the Buffalo Philharmonic were
also on the flight.
G. M. Brown
Brevard, NC
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:59 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net writes:
Hi all from a list noob:
Info from wife, admin in maintenance dept
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Wonko the Sane wrote:
There is more truth to that than you realize -- plus lots of USAF
fighter
pilots (i.e., Sully).
Funny thing, my niece used
If you can't land with a dead engine and no instruments, I don't want to
ride with you. If you touch down more than 200 feet beyond the threshold,
same thing. No slamming required, just good piloting.
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com wrote:
I took lots of
The difference was in how hard the aircraft impacted the runway. I landed
right where they wanted me to, but gently. No need to pretend that I was
about to snag a wire.
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:32 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:
If you can't land with a dead engine and no instruments, I
Ah - that's not good with normal landing gear and hard runways! My home base
had two 1700' grass runways. Tires last longer on grass.
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com wrote:
The difference was in how hard the aircraft impacted the runway. I landed
right where
According to investigators, it appeared the plane's flaps went down at about
2,300 feet, and that's when everything started to go wrong, Chealander said.
Although witnesses reported seeing the plane nosedive, Chealander said
investigators had found the plane's cockpit, tail, engine and wings
As a non-aviator, but curious, I found this video fascinating, even if
this is not the condition that caused of Friday's crash... gives me a
glimpse of what sorts of things ice can do.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946
Allan
--
1983 300D
Great video, thanks for posting Allan.
Ed
300E
2009/2/14 Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
As a non-aviator, but curious, I found this video fascinating, even if
this is not the condition that caused of Friday's crash... gives me a
glimpse of what sorts of things ice can do.
Seems like it was most likely icing on the wings, maybe raising the stall speed?
How long does it take a plane to hit the ground if it stalls 1,500 feet in the
air? Why not at least a shouted MAYDAY from the pilot? Surely there was
time for that?
Allan
--
1983 300D
Allan Streib wrote:
Surely there was time for that?
I imagine he was a little preoccupied at the time.
John
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe
I heard freezing rain and immediately thought of icing, esp coming down
from higher altitude and the wings are cold. I would guess those planes
have deicers, but they can only handle so much. Sounds like it just
bored straight into the house, which suggests a stall and pitch over, no
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:34:50 -0500, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net said:
I heard freezing rain and immediately thought of icing, esp coming down
from higher altitude and the wings are cold. I would guess those planes
have deicers, but they can only handle so much. Sounds
Watching streaming coverage from a Buffalo tv station. They mentioned
something interesting -- that the autopilots are so sophisticated these days
it can continue to compensate for problems that a pilot flying hands-on
would notice (aircraft constantly going out of trim, etc.) until it is too
late
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:57:49 -0600, Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com said:
Watching streaming coverage from a Buffalo tv station. They mentioned
something interesting -- that the autopilots are so sophisticated these days
it can continue to compensate for problems that a pilot flying hands-on
Well, it depends a lot on the weather conditions, but yes, ice can build
up very quickly if the conditions are right, and at low altitude,
(relatively) low speeds, in a landing configuration, etc. you will have
not have much warning, much time to do much of anything, and the plane
could lose
They hadn't dropped the gear yet. They crashed right at the outer marker,
supposed to be 1500 AGL.
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
Well, it depends a lot on the weather conditions, but yes, ice can build up
very quickly if the
Allan Streib wrote:
So it's not implausible that they are flying along, nothing at all seems to be
out of the ordinary, and then they just fall right out of the sky?
Unless the wings are iced up enough to change their shape, the main factor in a
stall is the angle of attack of the wing.
Maybe not, if you're busy trying to FLY THE AIRPLANE.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Seems like it was most
Wonko the Sane wrote:
They hadn't dropped the gear yet. They crashed right at the outer marker,
supposed to be 1500 AGL.
So they didn't fall from 1500' AGL, they impacted at the point where they should
have been at 1500' AGL? Like maybe they lost it at 2000' and their glide
steepened so that
Doesn't take very long for brick to fall from 1500 feet.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
On Fri, 13 Feb
Yeah, I call it the-sudden-brick syndrome.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Watching streaming coverage
2009/2/13 Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
About this lon... You get the idea.
I would imagine shouting Mayday at that point is pretty much just telling
the controller what he's going to know in the next 10-15 seconds anyway. Do
what you can to keep it in the air, and let the
I just though it odd for the plane to crash with no indication of trouble
voiced by the pilot. Especially on approach where I'd think they are talking
back and forth with the tower quite often. But I speak from ignorance.
Almost like it was just hit by a missile or something (I'm NOT
Captain was from Iowa. Looks young -- or maybe I am just getting older.
http://www.kcci.com/news/18708666/detail.html
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090213/6615952a/attachment.html
Well ... graduated high school only 9 years after I did, so not that young,
I guess.
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com wrote:
Captain was from Iowa. Looks young -- or maybe I am just getting older.
http://www.kcci.com/news/18708666/detail.html
No, that's not how a wing stalls. Combination of wing shape, angle of
attack, airspeed, and occasionally some other factors.
--R [BSAAE, MSAAE (major aerodynamics)]
Mitch Haley wrote:
Allan Streib wrote:
So it's not implausible that they are flying along, nothing at all
seems to be out of
Pilots were reporting icing as they descended. Eyewitness reports plane
impacted at a steep downward pitch angle and banked (rolled), which is
consistent with coming down after a (wing) stall (hence hitting the
house square on). Pilots reported flaps down at some point, pogoing up
and down
While he may not have been talking back and forth with the tower, I'm sure
everything said in the cockpit between the two pilots was recorded, and will
be part of the investigation.
As tragic as the loss of life always is in such things, I think it must be
very rewarding and interesting work,
Attended USCG OCS with a former Army CWO3 helo pilot -- maintenance pilot
and instructor pilot in the Chinook. He once told me that he had long ago
decided that if anything unrecoverable was about to happen inflight, he was
going to drop his flight suit and quickly ... er ... straddle the cyclic
I suspect that the FAA will never release the tape with the expected
profanity to the public.
Only a few seconds from pitchover to impact, I suspect as flying
speed will be 120 mph or so -- they were just putting the flaps down.
This is exactly what happened to the ATR series -- in icing
probably a hundred hour wonder or whatever they call em these days.
Wonko the Sane wrote:
Captain was from Iowa. Looks young -- or maybe I am just getting older.
http://www.kcci.com/news/18708666/detail.html
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
The regional aircraft are the beginner lanes these days. Most of
them look like kids to me, too, but then I'm past the half century mark.
Peter
On Feb 13, 2009, at 6:44 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
probably a hundred hour wonder or whatever they call em these days.
Wonko the Sane wrote:
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 7:29 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Seems like it was most likely icing on the wings, maybe
Some issues come due to airframe age, some come no charge as part of the
initial design.
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.netwrote:
Hi all from a list noob:
Info from wife, admin in maintenance dept. at another airline that flies
the
Q400:
The aircraft
Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net writes:
probably a hundred hour wonder or whatever they call em these days.
Fox News was reporting that she had 2,000 hours though she was only 24.
The other pilot (who I'm assuming was the captain) they said was 47.
Allan
--
1983 300D
heck, Im way younger than you old farts, and the last several times I
have flown they look like kids to me also. In fact they are kids, they
are probably right at the min age for a ATP ticket. Some of their
flying skills show it as well. I have NEVER been scared on a plane
except the last
how could she have 2k hours and only be 24. Well I guess she could have
but I dont see how she could have that many commercial hours. Im foggy
but I was thinking you had to be what, 23 to get a commercial ATP
license? Its been a long time since I was in flight school.
Allan Streib wrote:
Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net writes:
Hi all from a list noob:
Info from wife, admin in maintenance dept. at another airline that flies the
Q400:
The aircraft was nearly new, not old enough to have had maintenance
issues.
I really don't trust these regional/commuter outfits.
The Captain of this ill-fated flight graduated high school in 1979. I will
let you do the math.
I think he had something like 3200 hours. Ironically, his co-pilot (age 24)
had about 2200 hours.
These figures are estimates pulled out of what I saw (all day long) on the
news.
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009
-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:59 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net writes:
Hi all from
Lady in OCS flight training w/ me was about 24 or so. She was already
type-rated in lots of airframes, both rotary wing and turbo prop and jet.
Instructor pilot and ATP. She'd do a double hop in flight school (do two
syllabus flights at once) then take her Navy officer instructor back up to
work
Yeah, YOU probably, but, of course, I'm not. ;
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: Wonko the Sane don.b...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Captain was from
@okiebenz.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Captain was from Iowa. Looks young -- or maybe I am just getting older.
http://www.kcci.com/news/18708666/detail.html
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL
OCS classmate of mine just made Admiral. And he was straight out of college,
not ex-enlisted.
nt: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Captain was from Iowa. Looks young -- or maybe I am just getting older.
http://www.kcci.com/news/18708666
: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-
boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:59 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: thoughts on NY plane crash?
Greg Fiorentino gf...@dslnorthwest.net writes:
Hi all from a list noob:
Info
I mentioned wing shape and angle of attack. Reynolds number (airspeed) is a
minor factor, but if you're pulling 1G at stall speed, your RN is going to be
about the same as at any other instance of level flight stall, unless your wing
shape if off.
How sensitive is a modern turboprop to dirty
That was a standard landing on EAL 727s into Washington National,
after a very low sharp fast turn over the kink in the river just before
landing to the south. I believe all the pilots were ex-Navy carrier
types.
--R
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
heck, Im way younger than you old farts, and the
There is more truth to that than you realize -- plus lots of USAF fighter
pilots (i.e., Sully).
I can't back this up with data right now, but I'd wager than at least 50% of
the current airline captains (including the puddle jumpers) got their flight
training in the military. Maybe higher. Navy
On EAL it was quite true. The only thing missing were the arresting
wires at National. Those old 727s could take a LOT of abuse.
--R
Wonko the Sane wrote:
There is more truth to that than you realize -- plus lots of USAF fighter
pilots (i.e., Sully).
I can't back this up with data right
I took lots of abuse during flight training from my instructors (all Navy
and Marine fighter pilots) for landing like a F** airline pilot. I
politely (and sarcastically) tried to explain that it was much easier to
smoothly and quietly place a T-34 onto the deck than it was to slam it down
like
54 matches
Mail list logo
