On Saturday 24 December 2005 14:57, Matthew Closson wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005, Dave Feustel wrote:
I hate to send this Christmas present to misc,
but there is definitely a security hole in Xwindows
which permits exploits to be committed at least
with user permissions, if not root
when they
are allocated to users for kde processes. The result is that
these devices are also world rw. This condition can be fixed
by using chown and chmod commands on those devices.
Dave Feustel
--
Lose, v., experience a loss, get rid of, lose the weight
Loose, adj., not tight, let go, free
.I've messed it up but good. How do I
reinitialize wd1a and/or raid0 and/or start over completely?
-Dave Diller
it, but it
would merely say didn't run into the problem, but Greg Oster says its an
obvious bug... ;-)
Thanks,
-Dave
If I were not running OpenBSD, the comments by Dave Faure below would lead
me to believe that my freshly installed (supposedly) single-user OpenBSD 3.8
system has been penetrated and the penetrating perp is rattling my cage. :-)
Does anyone else have ideas about what is causing this?
(I'm also
On Wednesday 30 November 2005 02:17, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005, Dave Feustel wrote:
On Tuesday 29 November 2005 19:19, Todd C. Miller wrote:
Note that you can also set the malloc options from within a program
you are developing. I've found this to be quite useful
,
Dave Feustel
On Wednesday 30 November 2005 07:05, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005, Dave Feustel wrote:
While running kde 3.4.2 on OpenBSD 3.8, upon logging out from my normal
user id and then logging back in with a new user id and executing ps -ax,
I found an instance of kde kicker running
options affect the way
the program runs?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
On Tuesday 29 November 2005 19:19, Todd C. Miller wrote:
Note that you can also set the malloc options from within a program
you are developing. I've found this to be quite useful for adding
a belt and suspenders mode during developement (the use after
free checks in particular).
- todd
On Monday 28 November 2005 05:34, Marc Espie wrote:
On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 04:58:08AM -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
How do I unlink a previously linked directory name?
==
/usr}sudo ln -f ports #I tried this since I couldn't find an unlink command
ln: ports: is a directory
Thanks All!
rm did the trick.
Dave
On Monday 28 November 2005 05:44, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
Hello!
On Mon, Nov 28, 2005 at 04:58:08AM -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
How do I unlink a previously linked directory name?
==
/usr}sudo ln -f ports #I tried this since I couldn't find
through my pc?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
---my pf ruleset-
scrub fragment reassemble
scrub reassemble tcp
NoRouteIPs = { 127.0.0.0/8, 192.168.0.0/16, 172.16.0.0/12 }
ExtIF = xl0
ext_ad = (xl0)
prv_ad = (tun0)
nat_proto = {tcp, udp, icmp}
nat on $ExtIF inet proto $nat_proto \
from
_are_ getting feedback on the document: it's harder to read than it
could be.
Dave
--
Dave Anderson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
feature of FTP that I can't find in SCP or
SFTP: any equivalent to 'ascii mode' (I frequently transfer text files
between systems with different end-of-line conventions). Am I just
being blind, or is there really no way to do this?
Thanks,
Dave
--
Dave Anderson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
** Reply to message from Gaby vanhegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 16
Oct 2005 18:34:54 +0100
On 16 Oct 2005, at 17:13, Dave Anderson wrote:
That being said, FTP is well past the time it was designed for.
OpenSSH
is very stable and featurefull. Just make sure it isn't *too*
featureful
multiple
default routes ? Do I misunderstand my problem ?
All help is appreciated as ever,
Cheers
Dave
Stuart Henderson wrote:
--On 14 October 2005 08:32 +1000, Dave Harrison wrote:
Here's my problem, I have a remote machine that has two links, one is
high bandwidth but has bad latency, the other has low bandwidth but
good latency.
pf.conf(5), look at 'route-to' and 'reply-to'. Use PF
port 53 keep state
Dave
--
Dave Anderson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
** Reply to message from ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 6 Oct 2005
22:15:25 +0100
On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:49:02 -0400
Dave Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's not quite the whole story: 53/tcp is also used when the
response to a query is too big for a single UDP packet (the resolver
sends
-to \
{ ($ext_if1 $ext_gw1), ($ext_if2 $ext_gw2) } round-robin \
from $lan_net to any keep state
But is there a way I can say try this one first, then try this one ?
or is that going to require a routing daemon's control (ospf, bgp etc) ?
Cheers
Dave
an
appropriate (free) solution. I have been playing with the idea to use
snort, but that seems a lot of work to me.
Your boss _is_ aware that what he seems to be asking for is
fundamentally impossible, due to caching proxies, dynamic IP addresses,
multiuser systems, etc?
Dave
--
Dave Anderson
greatest exports to the US are poverty and disease.
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE,
KEYLOGGERS, rootkits, worms and popups.
Then Switch to OpenBSD with a KDE desktop!!!
I have not seen a sitemap for openbsd.org.
Is there one? If not, how hard would it be to
create one and add a link to the website for it?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
On Friday 09 September 2005 15:12, Alexander Hall wrote:
http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/www/
Hmm. Interesting. I'm not quite sure yet just what this is,
but it looks useful and I'm putting the link in my OpenBSD
link file and will spend some time examining it.
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
=
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE,
KEYLOGGERS, rootkits, worms and popups)
Then Switch to OpenBSD with a KDE desktop!!!
On Saturday 03 September 2005 06:43, Jan Johansson wrote:
Hello.
Leaving the X virtual console the second time make the console
die this happens both if I use Alt-Fn or exit X (both startx and
xdm).
Example:
Log in as root on console.
Type startx
When X has loaded choose exit in the
On Friday 02 September 2005 13:32, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Ramiro Aceves wrote:
Hello dear OpenBSD fans.
I am trying to compile a C program (Numerical Electromagnetics Code,
NEC, for antenna modelling) that needs complex numbers. I compiled it
with gcc on Linux with
with the requisite gain for the distance to be covered?
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE,
KEYLOGGERS, rootkits, worms and popups)
Then Switch to OpenBSD with a KDE desktop!!!
Fujitsu-Siemens writeup on disk password handling:
http://vilpublic.fujitsu-siemens.com/vil/pc/vil/fast_facts/mainboards/pf_hddpassword_e.pdf
A long time ago I added a little bios code to my pc
by programming and installing an eprom on a
post card. The code was executed at boot time before
most of the bios code was executed.
Is this still possible with current desktops?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against
On Sunday 28 August 2005 10:53, Stuart Henderson wrote:
--On 28 August 2005 10:22 -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
A long time ago I added a little bios code to my pc
by programming and installing an eprom on a
post card. The code was executed at boot time before
most of the bios code
to disable booting
from any device but the hard disk containing the operating system.
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE,
KEYLOGGERS, rootkits, worms and popups)
Then Switch to OpenBSD with a KDE desktop!!!
On Saturday 27 August 2005 07:27, Dave Feustel wrote:
On Saturday 27 August 2005 06:07, JSD wrote:
Hi folks,
I have a big root access problem. If someone has physical
access to my OpenBSD box, than he/she can swith into single
user mode (-s) and can change the password of root
as
reasonable advice you can get if you can't physically secure your box,
and that's why you can't come up with anything better, smart ass.
/kami
Also, Kami is unfamiliar with the details of the disk password.
man atactl
/secsetpass
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware
On Saturday 27 August 2005 11:14, kami petersen wrote:
dave, what are you smoking? please carefully note how i edited out
_your_ text so as to indicate _who_ i was addressing and whom i
additionally consider being a smartass. let me rephrase:
dear frank.
your response is unneccesary
On Saturday 27 August 2005 12:28, Tobias Weingartner wrote:
You BIOS password would prevent the machine from booting
automatically after power outtage for example...
What! You're not running with backup power??? :-)
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans, viruses,
On Saturday 27 August 2005 17:50, Christian Jones wrote:
On 8/27/05, black reaper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Also, a BIOS password can be easily removed if one has physical access to
the box. The small CMOS battery can be popped out, and put back in (on the
motherboard), erasing your
How can I tell in general whether a specific patch for a specific exploit
has been incorporated into the relevant openbsd package
(kde in this case)?
http://www.kde.org/info/security/advisory-20050101-1.txt
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans
On Wednesday 24 August 2005 07:04, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
A few things that get bitten are some packages doing their own and very
different memory management, but can't avoid malloc altogether.
That is ports/lang/clisp, that seems to be also gprolog
Can you describe how these programs manage
On Wednesday 24 August 2005 08:04, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
Hello!
On Wed, Aug 24, 2005 at 08:02:54AM -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
On Wednesday 24 August 2005 07:04, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
I *am* a bit sad about the fact that there're no running Lisp
implementations for OpenBSD
Does (X
On Wednesday 24 August 2005 10:56, Marc Espie wrote:
On Wed, Aug 24, 2005 at 08:09:36AM -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
On Wednesday 24 August 2005 07:04, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
A few things that get bitten are some packages doing their own and very
different memory management, but can't
On Wednesday 24 August 2005 12:31, Will H. Backman wrote:
Running today's snapshot on an old laptop (Dell Latitude PPL), and I put
the cover down to see if it would go to sleep and wake up properly.
After it went to sleep, I opened the laptop back up, and it started to
come back alive, but the
When I start kde via startkde after login, an instance of
xconsole isalso started. This instance doesn't seem to be
started in kdeinit. Where is it started from?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, ADWARE,
KEYLOGGERS
On Tuesday 23 August 2005 09:12, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
Dave Feustel wrote:
When I start kde via startkde after login, an instance of
xconsole isalso started. This instance doesn't seem to be
started in kdeinit. Where is it started from?
Well, if you use an graphical login manager, I
On Tuesday 23 August 2005 09:50, Stephan Tesch wrote:
Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 15:48 schrieb Dave Feustel:
When I start kde via startkde after login, an instance of
xconsole isalso started. This instance doesn't seem to be
started in kdeinit. Where is it started from?
Is is mentioned
On Tuesday 23 August 2005 11:43, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
Dave Feustel wrote:
I don't have an .xinitrc. I run startkde from the command line
after login.
Then add a .xinitrc in your homedir with the following line :
exec startkde
... then launch startx.
I forget. What
On Tuesday 23 August 2005 14:58, Antoine Jacoutot wrote:
Selon Dave Feustel [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
My problem is that xconsole starts running with kde and I cannot
figure out where from it is started. I've tried grepping for xconsole
and get no hits in my home directory.
Please try to read
or relative pathname (see that case
statement in startx).
So, if startkde is explicitely invoked as /usr/local/bin/startkde
(instead of just startkde), it should work.
Ciao,
Kili
This post is a keeper! :-)
Thanks!
Dave
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans
test, get the source for korn shell from
korn.com, build it and then compare its scripted behavior against that
of pdksh. Of course, if korn shell's behaviour doesn't conform to Posix,
*then* what do you do. (I personally take Korn shell as THE standard
regardless of what Posix says.)
Dave
is no vice!
And let me remind you also that moderation
in the pursuit of OpenBSD security is no virtue!
with a nod to the late Senator Barry Goldwater.
Do It!
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans, viruses, SPYWARE, worms and popups)
Then Switch to OpenBSD
with QPainter,
but otherwise it seems to run ok. Qt 4.0.1 coexists with
Qt 3.x except for qmake, which is version-specific.
Trolltech - Open Source Downloads
http://www.trolltech.com/download/opensource.html
Dave Feustel
--
Tired of having to defend against Malware?
(You know: trojans, viruses
rebooted, /bsd booted normally. I figure that something
on the boot disk was left in a bad state by the power failure and running
/bsd.mp fixed it. This was the only time in 3 years that /bsd failed to boot
for me, all other power failures included.
Dave Feustel
On Saturday 20 August 2005 14:13
On 8/19/05, Nick Holland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dave Wickberg wrote:
Hi,
I've just recently installed OpenBSD 3.7 (Release) on a Celeron 466 w/
256MB of RAM.
I created a boot floppy and from there the install went flawlessly.
However, after booting the systems for first time I am
On Thursday 18 August 2005 09:38, Dimitry Andric wrote:
See the atactl(8) manpage, in particular the sec* commands.
I was looking that that manpage yesterday. It confirms that it
is possible to make the disk data inaccessible to anyone without
the user password.
However, I don't believe these
On Thursday 18 August 2005 10:16, Timothy Donahue wrote:
The only way to recover information off of a disk that has the ata security
password protection implemented correctly is to transplant the platters into
another disk (of the same type).
The c't article, the link to which I posted to
On Thursday 18 August 2005 11:19, Andrew Dalgleish wrote:
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 10:28:45AM -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
The c't article, the link to which I posted to misc@ yesterday, stated that
a data
recovery company was able to retrieve the user disk password (set by the
authors
left at a debugger prompt that seems functional so I may be able
to pull some more info if required.
I can log into the machine via ssh normally (as long as I don't touch
the local keyboard and trigger the error). Any idea what might be
going on?
Thanks,
Dave
P.S. dmesg below:
OpenBSD 3.7 (GENERIC
On Wednesday 17 August 2005 16:15, Baldur Sigurpsson wrote:
Indeed, very secure. If I've physical access to your laptop, all I
need is a screwdriver to open it, pull out the disk and connect it
to another machine.
The disk password is part of the ATA interface spec. I would like you to
c't 8/2005, S. 172: Hard Disk Security
At Your Disservice
How ATA security functions jeopardize your data
With most notebooks it is possible to secure the hard disk against
unauthorized access with the aid of a password. Without the latter
the disk, even when inserted into another computer,
On Wednesday 17 August 2005 16:15, Baldur Sigurpsson wrote:
Indeed, very secure. If I've physical access to your laptop, all I
need is a screwdriver to open it, pull out the disk and connect it
to another machine.
excerpted from http://www.rockbox.org/lock.html
===
Still
On Tuesday 16 August 2005 03:41, Uwe Dippel wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:22:15 -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
So I attempted to pkg_delete unzip and then got the following:
===
/usr/ports}cd archivers/unzip
/usr/ports/archivers/unzip}sudo pkg_delete unzip
Password:
Can't
On Tuesday 16 August 2005 16:08, Daniel Martini wrote:
Hi Dave,
On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 06:57:27PM -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
I'm running 3.7 release with the koffice package installed.
This is 100% repeatable. Has anyone else seen this?
Yes.
It's probably related to cups. Provided you
On Tuesday 16 August 2005 15:48, Matthias Kilian wrote:
On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 07:26:38PM +, Baldur Sigurpsson wrote:
[...]
Clever. A password-protected power switch...
Actually, I have configured the bios on my laptop to ask for a password
before even loading any kernel or
in over ssh, or if they must, they must be
chroot-ed to their home dir).
Cheers for any help,
Dave
I'm running 3.7 release with the koffice package installed.
This is 100% repeatable. Has anyone else seen this?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
I'm running release 3.7 and I've put the release src and ports
trees in /usr. I've updated both trees using cvs.
I remade unzip as per the instructions in ports.html.
When I attempted to make install, I got an error message
saying that unzip was already present (which it was).
So I attempted to
}
I don't understand why I would need to remove xmms, kdeaddons,
and kdenetwork in order to remove unzip. Enlightenment will be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
On Sunday 14 August 2005 21:47, Uwe Dippel wrote:
Tried my best in /usr/ports, but couldn't find any console-based
newsticker. Or so.
snownews is great, but needs user intervention.
This is what I intend to do: I am running a firewall behind closed doors
but with a nice big window. Sure I
On Sunday 14 August 2005 22:09, Uwe Dippel wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:02:45 -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
I discovered that the 3.7 konqueror correctly displays marqee.../marqee
as moving text. You can see this work at cloakanddagger.de. Just run
Konqueror
and periodically update
for the feedback,
Dave Feustel
found.
Dave
--
Dave Anderson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
'.) Are there additional changes that I
need to make to use kdm instead of xdm?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
On Thursday 11 August 2005 08:42, J. Lievisse Adriaanse wrote:
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 08:34:54 -0500
Dave Feustel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am now running 3.7. I got graphical logins via xdm working and
decided to replace xdm with kdm. I changed the call of xdm
in rc to a call to kdm
possible including 'save as default'.
I haven't tried everything, but the upgrade process from 3.6 was not as
arduous as I anticipated. Nice Work, Developers!
Thanks,
Dave
On Thursday 11 August 2005 10:37, Bernd Schoeller wrote:
You might want to check out
http://www.openbsdsupport.org/KDM.html
Thanks for the pointer. I remember reading it a while ago,
but I had forgotten about it since then.
I found that point 6 in that writeup doesn't work for me,
possibly
server is already running.
How do I get xdm to handle all console logins?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
On Thursday 11 August 2005 11:59, Henning Brauer wrote:
* Dave Feustel [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-08-11 18:57]:
I just discovered that even though xdm is running,
terminals C[0-3] are running in character mode
ie. if, while logged in via xdm, I enter ctl-alt-F[0-3],
I get a tty login!!!
eh
On Thursday 11 August 2005 12:13, Paul de Weerd wrote:
xdm is for graphical logins. text-mode console logins are handled by
getty(8). You can not make xdm handle text-mode logins, that's not
what it's designed to do.
I understand that.
It is beginning to look like I have had for at least 2
OpenBSD, I'll keep working on it. I appreciate your
patience.
Dave
Thanks for the advice, Paul. I'll try to follow it.
On Thursday 11 August 2005 13:04, Paul de Weerd wrote:
On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 12:49:13PM -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
| On Thursday 11 August 2005 12:13, Paul de Weerd wrote:
| xdm is for graphical logins. text-mode console logins are handled
On Thursday 11 August 2005 13:54, Mats O Jansson wrote:
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Dave Feustel wrote:
What I dn't yet quite grasp is why there cannot be multiple independent
instances of kde running, each one attached to a different virtual terminal
(C0-C3) on the same computer. Then I
On Thursday 11 August 2005 15:23, Darrin Chandler wrote:
Dave Feustel wrote:
Keep in mind that xdm does not at all do what I thought it did.
If using xdm does not permit simultaeneous multiple instances of KDE
on my computer, then I see no advantage to using xdm.
From a message
On Thursday 11 August 2005 15:42, Joseph C. Bender wrote:
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Dave Feustel wrote:
Keep in mind that xdm does not at all do what I thought it did.
If using xdm does not permit simultaeneous multiple instances of KDE
on my computer, then I see no advantage to using xdm.
I
logged out).
--Bryan
Xnest sounds like it does what I want. Now to decipher the man page :-)
Thanks,
Dave
have any old copies of dmesg to compare.
I'm running on a Dell 4100. Does the bios id seem correct?
Thanks,
Dave Feustel
OpenBSD 3.6 (GENERIC) #59: Fri Sep 17 12:32:57 MDT 2004
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Intel Pentium III (GenuineIntel 686-class) 797 MHz
cpu0
On Wednesday 10 August 2005 05:22 am, Martin Reindl wrote:
Dave Feustel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My computer just locked up and I rebooted.
When I did so the reboot hung right after the line below starting with
bios0.
I powered down, then up, then booted again, this time successfully
it is probably of no interest to Openbsd developers.
But it *will* make possible running a gaggle of copies of OpenBSD
(eg OpenBSD 3.6, 3.7, and 3.8) simultaneously on a single computer. :-)
Look for AMD chips implementing Pacifica sometime in 2006(Q1?).
Dave Feustel
Ed,
Ever read anything about MIT's Multics and the GE 645?
into the dustbin of history.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Dave Feustel
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 4:05 PM
To: Theo de Raadt
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: x86 rings?
Ed,
Ever read anything about MIT's
On Wednesday 03 August 2005 01:15 pm, Jim O'Donald wrote:
Using your example of a power supply lasting 10 years, that would
translate to 2 failures in 10 years, not 1 failure in 5 years.
And if the box is properly designed, it will continue running unless both
power supplies fail simultaneously
to the cdrom case.
That was a very pleasant surprise!
Dave Feustel
On Friday 29 July 2005 07:40 am, b h wrote:
Hi,
before I install openbsd on my laptop, I was curious
if there is any method of getting wireless working
with my companies infrastructure. I have the intel
2915a/b/g card, and only Cisco extensions and LEAP
authentication is supported (ughh).
On Thursday 28 July 2005 10:09 am, Moritz Grimm wrote:
And
there are also still numerous ways of breaking OpenBSD inspite of sane
defaults and exploit mitigation techniques in place.
Is there any way I can tell whether my system has been broken as you describe?
On Thursday 28 July 2005 11:24 am, Moritz Grimm wrote:
Dave Feustel wrote:
And
there are also still numerous ways of breaking OpenBSD inspite of sane
defaults and exploit mitigation techniques in place.
Is there any way I can tell whether my system has been broken as you
describe
1) add the line
umask 077
to .profile
2)add the file .kshrc containing at least the line
set -o vi
Also modify adduser so that the home directory
permissions of new users are set to drwx--
instead of drwxr-xr-x
On Wednesday 27 July 2005 04:23 pm, Paul de Weerd wrote:
On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 12:13:01PM -0500, Dave Feustel wrote:
| 1) add the line
| umask 077
| to .profile
This breaks certain ports (as I found out the hard way)
I was wondering about that. Which ports broke?
Thanks,
Dave
of doing
this), but I'm not at all sure it makes sense to stop and learn yet
another language *right* *now*. If this *is* the way to go,
recommendations as to the best language for general sysadmin-type
scripting would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Dave
--
Dave
of the current
environment environment.
It is wrong to assume using (...) will actually create a new process.
*That* was not at all obvious (at least to me), and is important to
know.
Thanks!
Dave
--
Dave Anderson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
.
Are there any other solutions people can think of ? Is there an option
I don't know about ?
Cheers for your help,
Dave
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