* Pascal Bleser [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 23. 2006 12:42]:
[...]
Now, with those patterns, if they're not a closed, well-defined list of
options to choose from, we will most probably end up with chaos.
Well, actually I don't think so. We'll probably get as much (or better
as less) chaos as with
* jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 23. 2006 14:57]:
Pascal Bleser wrote:
Now, with those patterns, if they're not a closed, well-defined list of
options to choose from, we will most probably end up with chaos.
this point deserve to be better seen.
It's probably essential to have a closed set
* Pascal Bleser [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 23. 2006 12:46]:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
* James Oakley [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 16:44]:
You could also use this to select tasks independently of the desktop
environment. If you select
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
* Pascal Bleser [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 23. 2006 12:42]:
[...]
Now, with those patterns, if they're not a closed, well-defined list of
options to choose from, we will most probably end up with chaos.
Well, actually I don't
Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 18:49, schreef Klaus Kaempf:
Patterns is about the ability to group packages for better overview
and handling, mostly at the UI level. Its an abstraction level.
However, I do agree that some kind of public 'pattern database' would
be nice in order to find duplicates
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 07:19:55PM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
btw, just to make sure I got that right, can patterns be organized into
a tree (i.e. do they have a hierarchy) ?
e.g. Development/Database/Server
As patterns can contain other patterns, I would say: yes.
I really see a risk of
* Pascal Bleser [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 25. 2006 19:20]:
I think we have a slightly different view/understanding of the patterns.
To me, it's not as much high-level packages than rather groups.
Patterns is what you make of it ;-)
Their basics is dependencies, just like packages have. They
* houghi [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 25. 2006 19:52]:
Would patterns also be able to contain information about installation
sources?
No. Repositories offer patterns but not vice versa.
e.g. if I use a pattern, it will offer me (or add automagicaly)
to add an extra installation source?
Well, a
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 09:10:05PM +0200, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
* houghi [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 25. 2006 19:52]:
Would patterns also be able to contain information about installation
sources?
No. Repositories offer patterns but not vice versa.
Pity. Oh well. We still need things we want
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
James Oakley wrote:
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 12:25 pm, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
You got it ;-). It's really powerful and you could do such stuff.
The question is do we want to do it this way? It makes it difficult
to maintain them...
It does
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
* James Oakley [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 16:44]:
You could also use this to select tasks independently of the desktop
environment. If you select Productivity/Chat and you have KDE and GNOME
selected, you would get
opensuse may better only support only one X Windows
officially rather than
both gnome and kde. as you do on commercial suse linux
(SLES). support both
(three, right? including fvwm2) is not productive. in
my personal
experience, gnome is more stable and using firefox is
good choice than
tir, 18,.07.2006 kl. 23.05 -0700, skrev The Nice Spider:
opensuse may better only support only one X Windows
officially rather than
both gnome and kde. as you do on commercial suse linux
(SLES). support both
(three, right? including fvwm2) is not productive. in
my personal
experience,
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 09:59:43AM +0200, Bjørn Lie wrote:
Do you want some petrol to throw at that bonfire? ;-)
LOL. It was indeed some bad trolling attempt. As long as WindowMaker is
supported, I don't mind SUSE paying a bit attention to things like KDE and
Gnome.
I tried XFCE for several
Rajko M wrote:
The problem is still in the packages that contain binaries. They are
compiled with the broadest selection of options,
ideally, the patterns could be defined _in build system_ so
to give each user a perfectly fitted system (gentoo compiled
by oepnSUSE). but is this possible?
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
* jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 18. 2006 09:12]:
Rajko M wrote:
The problem is still in the packages that contain binaries. They are
compiled with the broadest selection of options,
ideally, the patterns could be defined _in build system_ so
to give each user a perfectly
jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[...]
* this can be very powerfull, but for the very same reason must be
very carefully examined. I wonder if it's not risky to 10.2 (don't do
again the libzypp error), we must fine tune the definitions and
scenarii before going to the implementation.
That's
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[...]
* this can be very powerfull, but for the very same reason must be
very carefully examined. I wonder if it's not risky to 10.2 (don't do
again the libzypp error), we must fine tune the definitions and
scenarii before going to the
jdd wrote:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[...]
* this can be very powerfull, but for the very same reason must be
very carefully examined. I wonder if it's not risky to 10.2 (don't do
again the libzypp error), we must fine tune the definitions and
scenarii before
Fredag 14 juli 2006 19:50 skrev Boyd Lynn Gerber:
Saving and retreiving selections is close to the top of my list of things
missing.
Since we're on the subject - and there appears to be a lot of development on
YaST going on.
I've been meaning to file a bugzilla-enhancement about adding an
On Sat, Jul 15, 2006 at 01:25:51PM +0200, Martin Schlander wrote:
One of the critiques I often hear about YaST is that updating is too much of
a
chore.
I think it is a generic SUSE issue, not just a YaST problem. Other
distributions are able to do a version update fairly easy. With SUSE the
houghi wrote:
Now the standard advice is to do a new installation or at least be
prepared to do a new installation if things go bad.
I see a lot of upgrade problems on my lug forum, with
apt-distupgrade :-) (specially from stable to unstable :-)
jdd
--
http://www.dodin.net
* houghi [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 16:13]:
3) General notes.
As far as I understand, I could just add OOo and then during installation
will install all dependencies?
Yes.
What happens when I then want to deinstall OOo?
Will it recognise the extra things it installed, or will that
* James Oakley [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 16:44]:
You could also use this to select tasks independently of the desktop
environment. If you select Productivity/Chat and you have KDE and GNOME
selected, you would get Konversation and XChat, but if you just have KDE, you
would just get
* jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 21:04]:
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
Packages listed in selection are all required weak. Removal of such
a package does not warn you about invalidating a selection.
are you sure of that?
Yes. ;-)
I just installed a 10.0 to make tests
for minisuse, I
* houghi [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 14. 2006 11:53]:
On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 11:26:41AM +0200, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
You're using (maybe unwittingly) a specific functionality/application on
a regular basis. Over time, your systems gets crowded and you decide
to clean it up a bit. You do this by
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
Thats a bug in the 10.0 implementation.
right now I use 10.0 because I can't save the selection with
10.1
jdd
--
http://www.dodin.net
http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html
http://lucien.dodin.net
http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Hi,
Andreas Jaeger schrieb:
* Patterns define a functionality the system should have.
This is indeed a currently missing feature. But it would be nice to have
a more abstract definition of functionality - for example, a pattern
should be able to say the user needs a PDF viewer and not the user
* Andreas Hanke [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 14. 2006 17:13]:
Hi,
Andreas Jaeger schrieb:
* Patterns define a functionality the system should have.
This is indeed a currently missing feature. But it would be nice to have
a more abstract definition of functionality - for example, a pattern
Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
Thats a bug in the 10.0 implementation.
right now I use 10.0 because I can't save the selection with 10.1
Saving and retreiving selections is close to the top of my list of things
missing. Top is
Dňa St 12. Júl 2006 17:17 Klaus Kaempf napísal:
* Kenneth Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 16:17]:
I don't mean don't install needed packages, just show where they belong.
GNOME packages do not need to be seen in the KDE section is all I am
saying even if there are some sort of
Currently in SUSE Linux 10.1 (and earlier releases) we use selections
in YaST to group software and easily enable installation of related
software.
Our developers have enhanced the concept of selections and call it
patterns.
What are patterns?
* patterns include a list of software packages to
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:18:00AM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
This misses some of the selections and introduces new ones. This is
really a first step for discussion. I would like you to come up with
better high-level proposals!
Let's not discuss we need this pattern as well - but let's
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Let's not discuss we need this pattern as well - but let's discuss
and agree on the general framework
this seems very promising
and then let's discuss adding
further patterns.
we should add a role hardware. We should be able to build
install cd/dvd on the role base
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:55:10AM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
So what are the technical differences between what we have and what we
will get? Will adding one cause trouble over the other?
You cannot mix selections and patterns in a product - and we will
remove all selection support now.
Glenn Holmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 04:18, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
* Patterns can be grouped into roles, like Development or
Desktop. * Patterns can require other patterns
Will there be a way to have alternate choices, e.g. if you select
Database Server you can
On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 11:18 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Currently in SUSE Linux 10.1 (and earlier releases) we use selections
in YaST to group software and easily enable installation of related
software.
Our developers have enhanced the concept of selections and call it
patterns.
snip
On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 11:43 +0200, jdd wrote:
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Let's not discuss we need this pattern as well - but let's discuss
and agree on the general framework
this seems very promising
and then let's discuss adding
further patterns.
on this respect, it would be very
* houghi [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 12:35]:
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:55:10AM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
So what are the technical differences between what we have and what we
will get? Will adding one cause trouble over the other?
You cannot mix selections and patterns in a
* jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 11:43]:
patterns should be more refined. There is a lot of things
completely unusefull in the Base packages (for some uses);
So we should have
* a very minimal set. may be only static kernel, skel. only
text console access, neither yast - ideally
Kenneth Schneider wrote:
Also why not eliminate the duplication of packages in the patterns. When
looking at and selecting KDE packages I should _not_ be presented with
GNOME packages for selection as well.
think also of _negative_ instructions. I think of no Kde
library or no gnome library
* Glenn Holmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 12:54]:
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 04:18, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
* Patterns can be grouped into roles, like Development or
Desktop. * Patterns can require other patterns
Will there be a way to have alternate choices, e.g. if you select
* jdd [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 14:36]:
think also of _negative_ instructions. I think of no Kde
library or no gnome library
Use the conflicts depedency for this. I.e. a No kde libs pattern
which conflicts with all kde libraries.
Don't know how useful such a system would be ...
Klaus
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
(or even a bootable USB image if the BIOS supports it)
could be pretty nice.
an usb bootable suse is anyway a very needed thing, now than
2Gb usb sticks are cheap :-)
jdd
--
http://www.dodin.net
http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html
http://lucien.dodin.net
Kenneth Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Also why not eliminate the duplication of packages in the patterns. When
looking at and selecting KDE packages I should _not_ be presented with
GNOME packages for selection as well. I have not ever understood why a
package shows up in numerous
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 02:29:23PM +0200, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
It looks like you do all this on purpose, just to anoy me. :-D
Yep. ;-)
I thought so. ;-)
Not quite. SL10.1 libzypp recognizes both and will get confused if it
finds .sel and .pat files. We probably will remove .sel support
On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 14:36 +0200, jdd wrote:
Kenneth Schneider wrote:
Also why not eliminate the duplication of packages in the patterns. When
looking at and selecting KDE packages I should _not_ be presented with
GNOME packages for selection as well.
think also of _negative_
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 9:41 am, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
* Glenn Holmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 12:54]:
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 04:18, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
* Patterns can be grouped into roles, like Development or
Desktop. * Patterns can require other patterns
Will there be a
* Kenneth Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 16:17]:
I don't mean don't install needed packages, just show where they belong.
GNOME packages do not need to be seen in the KDE section is all I am
saying even if there are some sort of cross dependencies.
Thats a problem of our current
James Oakley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 9:41 am, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
* Glenn Holmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 12:54]:
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 04:18, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
* Patterns can be grouped into roles, like Development or
Desktop. * Patterns can
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
As a first step for discussion I propose these roles and patterns:
* Graphical Environments
- GNOME Desktop Environment
- KDE Desktop Environment
- X Window System (with fvwm2)
* Base Technologies
- Base System (always installed)
-
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 09:53:40AM -0600, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
I think the two above should be split. I personally never use DHCP but do
a lot with DNS. In fact I remove DHCP from most if not all my systems.
This would force me to have on my systems DHCP. In the DNS Server
would/could
* houghi [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Jul 12. 2006 18:44]:
I asume it still will be possible to install and/or remove individual
packages.
Well ... yes, of course.
But remember that the main difference to selections is the
possibility to have hard (real) requirements.
So if you have a pattern X
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 08:04:33PM +0200, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
Having each and every service seperated might not be wanted, because of
complexity it will bring.
Define one pattern DNS Server and one DHCP Server and one
DNS DHCP Server requiring both.
Won't that result in too many choices?
Klaus Kaempf wrote:
Packages listed in selection are all required weak. Removal of such
a package does not warn you about invalidating a selection.
are you sure of that? I just installed a 10.0 to make tests
for minisuse, I browsed all installed packages for minimal
install and removed a
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 08:04:33PM +0200, Klaus Kaempf wrote:
Having each and every service seperated might not be wanted, because of
complexity it will bring.
Define one pattern DNS Server and one DHCP Server and one
DNS DHCP Server
Hi
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 13:08, Andreas Jaeger wrote (shortened):
I asume that `create_package_descr` will be either completely
re-written or replaced by something else? If so, would it be
possible to see that?
Lars?
Yes: completely re-written.
I'm sorry, but I can give no final
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 16:13, houghi wrote (shortened):
Will create_package_descr still be able to make .sel files, or will
it be completely removed?
create_package_descr has never created .sel or .pat files.
create_package_descr is only responsible for the creation of
the
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 01:35:17PM -0600, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:
So both the above have a P Server Reguirement, Apache Requirement, but the
database is a seperate requirement that may be filled by what ever choice
of database/s that are wanted.
I hope this explains the idea I am tring to
On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:16:15PM +0200, Lars Rupp wrote:
On Wednesday 12 July 2006 16:13, houghi wrote (shortened):
Will create_package_descr still be able to make .sel files, or will
it be completely removed?
create_package_descr has never created .sel or .pat files.
60 matches
Mail list logo
