The material relevance of dialectics lies in the interconnectedness of
material reality from the subatomic to the universal level.
The German word for contradiction is closer to the word for contrast,
and it has a flavour of contrasting perspectives about it. Gegensatz.
It has some roots in the
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, Doug Henwood wrote:
maybe the three million or so people who voted for nader in 2000 should
take control of local democratic executive committees, use structure in
place to recruit candidates, slag off on dems who suck, use available
funds to issue policy statements and press
Iraq: Kurdish Leader Warns Karkuk's Attacks Might Get
Situation Out of Control
London Al-Sharq al-Awsat in Arabic 10 Jul 04 p2
[Report by Shirzad Shaykhani in Al-Sulaymaniyah:
Prominent Kurdish Leader: We Do Not Have a Plan To
Fight a Civil War in Karkuk, But What Is Happening
Might Get Out of
Sorry -- I meant to send that Kurds thing somewhere else.
__
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Louis Proyect wrote that the Turkish documentary The
Restorer would be playing at the following times and channels:
July 21, 8.30 pm. channel 34 Time Warner or 107 RCN,
July 29, 3.00pm channel 56 TW, or 108 RCN
Aug 4, 12 midnight channel 67 TW, 110 RCN.
Louis, are you sure
indeed i read about this, and it only adds to my
doubt. i am not very
knowledgeable about iraq but is it not possible that
the thugs who will
rush in to fill the void left by a suddenly departed
US army, would be
worse? i remember reading pieces about east timor,
rwanda, and
elsewhere, of the
by Chris Doss
For formal logic , arriving at a contradiction means
there is a
mistake,
something is false.
--
Technically, this is false. In logic, ever since
Plato, the rule has been that something cannot both be
and not be in the same way at the same time.
Dialectics in Hegel and Marx do not
by Devine, James
-clip-
But for Marx, a contradiction was an empirical (real, practical)
phenomenon,
unlike the contradiction in logic. A social organization -- such as
capitalism -- was a whole or totality, but in its structure, there were
different parts that didn't work together well.
CB: What's the difference between what you said and
what I said ? I
believe
you state the rule of non-contradiction, which is what
I am referring
to.
---
I thought you were implying that Marx and Hegel denied
the RoNC. Maybe I misread you.
__
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Vote
An argument against it? You would actually try it yourself if it
were really a good idea.
Yoshie
nah, doug's a journalist, he'd write about it... michael hoover
A person who puts forward a proposal should be prepared to act on it.
Otherwise, others will simply conclude that, if the idea is not
The ontological idea of internal relations, the idea that makes
Marxs analysis of capitalism dialectical, leads to the treatment of
law as immanent. The nature of individuals, in the case of human
individuals the degree of their rational self-consciousness as
expressed in their motives and,
NY Times, July 21, 2004
Delgado Makes a Stand by Taking a Seat
By WILLIAM C. RHODEN
OAKLAND, Calif.
BEGINNING tonight, the Yankees will see a lot of the Toronto Blue Jays.
The two teams will play 19 times in the final three months of the
season. The Yankees will also see a lot of the Blue Jays
Michael Pollak wrote:
This sounds like a very good idea, or at least one worth trying. What's
the argument against it?
There are two basically: one, it's impossible, and two, you won't be able
to do anything with it. The reason is that the incentives are all on the
other side and that all state
From chapter 17 of Typee:
The green and precipitous elevations that stood ranged around the
head of the vale where Marheyo's habitation was situated
effectually precluded all hope of escape in that quarter, even if
I could have stolen away from the thousand eyes of the savages.
But these
The Independent, 21 July 2004
The cult and the candidate
Lyndon LaRouche is a convicted fraudster and virulent anti-Semite. Now
he's campaigning for the American presidency. Terry Kirby investigates
his sinister global network - and his conspiracy theories about Tony Blair
He has warned that the
I didn't set off the quote from Marx. It's the passage beginning
within the capitalist system. It's also from Chap. 25 of Capital
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch25.htm. Also, I
meant to say: Individuals immiserized in this way would _not_ be
subjects of this kind.
Ted
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Editorial
July 21, 2004 Wednesday Home Edition
HOMELAND SECURITY: Fear of racial profiling makes skies less safe
BYLINE: SHAUNTI FELDHAHN
A journalist's disturbing account of her recent airline flight has sent
shock waves around the Internet, and raised troubling
Charles B: Wouldn't you say that also for Marx, contradictions in the capitalist
system are the motives for it to change into a different system, i.e.
socialism ? Contradiction as the basis for change is a dialectical concept.
Marx deals with dialectical, not formal logical contradictions.
I
Protest zone draws ire
Court to be asked to rule on use of high barriers and netting
By Jonathan Saltzman, Boston Globe Staff | July 21, 2004
Cement barriers, 8-foot-tall chain-link fencing, and heavy black netting
have been installed around the protest zone outside the FleetCenter,
angering
In a message dated 7/21/2004 8:07:43 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
there is no necessity, however, for capitalism to produce
immiserization. The organic composition of capital doesn't have to change
in the way Marx assumes. For this and other reasons, the creation of
Greetings Economists,
CB (Charles Brown) writes,
(first),
...Math, grammar and logic are all sets of rules on how to use symbols
then CB writes,
...logic is mathematical and linguistic, but I am curious on the essential
distinction between linguistics and mathematics implied here
To which
Marx sets out the differentia specifica of capitalist production in
the following passage from Chap. 25 (that this is an expression of
motivation dominated by greed is made clear in other passages in
Capital and elsewhere). This too is an absolute law of this mode of
production in the sense
THEIR thugs are OUR thugs, just as they were in Afghanistan. It is the decimation of
the social structure under US attack that creates the opportunity for and the thugs
themselves. We can control our thugs? That must be comforting to all those in US run
prisons. I can't wait until somebody
Counterpunch, July 21, 2004
Nader Sleeping with the Enemy?
Let's Be Fair
By JOSHUA FRANK
Democrats and liberal defenders of John Kerry, are throwing tantrums
over Ralph Nader's new found affinity for conservatives who are aiding
his ballot efforts in swing states. According to a Detroit News
by Chris Doss
21 July 2004 12:29 UTC
CB: What's the difference between what you said and
what I said ? I
believe
you state the rule of non-contradiction, which is what
I am referring
to.
---
I thought you were implying that Marx and Hegel denied
the RoNC. Maybe I misread you.
^^
CB: I can see
Sasha Baron-Cohen isn't really that left-wing; my other half was a
contemporary of his at Cambridge and remembers him as being pretty
apolitical. The sexual politics of some of the things he's done on British
TV were really quite appalling, in that rather annoying ironic laddish
sexism way that
In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:03:21 AM Central Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The facts are that the economy is worse off now than
before; living standards continue to decline; oil revenues are misappropriated.
This was/is a capitalist assault against the social costs of
by Devine, James
I don't know about motives, but obviously for Marx, the contradictions in
capitalism create possibilities for the emergence of socialism.
CB: OK. Instead of motives , causes for it to change. The dialectical idea
is that everything changes, and the change is based on the
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Doug Henwood wrote:
I think you're overstating things. The infiltration strategy could have
some influence on who gets elected, and also on the environment in which
other elected officials operate - they'll have to respond to and
compromise with a whole new set of actors.
Michael Pollak wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Doug Henwood wrote:
I think you're overstating things. The infiltration strategy could have
some influence on who gets elected, and also on the environment in which
other elected officials operate - they'll have to respond to and
compromise with a whole
Is now available at:
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2004/pdf/hdr04_HDI.pdf
It is *highly* interesting that for the first time ever Cuba has made it
into the High human development grouping that includes the G-8 nations,
etc. Considering the economic warfare being waged against this country,
In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:36:26 AM Central Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law
of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently
accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of
charles curtis, george dallas, john garner, garrett hobart, richard
johnson, william king, thomas marshall, levi morton, daniel thompson,
william wheeler, henry wilson...
control of vp running mate set by fdr at 1940 dem convention, prior to
that time prez nominees generally did not express
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/21/04 12:55 PM
charles curtis, george dallas, john garner, garrett hobart, richard
johnson, william king, thomas marshall, levi morton, daniel thompson,
william wheeler, henry wilson...
following somehow deleted from above message: these are among names that
roll off
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Doug Henwood wrote:
What the conservatives did was very different. But they also had very
different issues than us -- ones that
1) they deeply believed in;
2) which could be vitally affected at the most local levels; and
3) which were so far off the map that they rated
Michael Pollak wrote:
Those can only be affected at the state level, -- which in our state,
means taking over governorship and the speakership. Nothing short of that
would have any effect at all.
This is curiously maximalist for you. Organized efforts can influence
incumbents if they feel like
Charles:The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist
accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany
technological progress under capitalist relations of production, a
contradiction of regress and progress, with regress being absolute and
progress
Dear Devine / To relate each contradiction with its results is to return to
an explanation established in causality. In fact, it will lead to the
abandonment of the totality notion./ Mário
- Original Message -
From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday,
Those can only be affected at the state level, -- which in our state,
means taking over governorship and the speakership. Nothing short of
that would have any effect at all.
This is curiously maximalist for you. Organized efforts can influence
incumbents if they feel like their incumbency is
I'm talking about what Althusserians call structural causation. In any event, the
dialectical conception doesn't deny the role of causation as much as positing two-way
causation in many cases (B affects W, while W affects B) and playing down the role of
exogenous events in the social-historical
Title: intramural cynicism
From the Denver
Post:
Bill Clinton
defended his embattled national security adviser Tuesday as a man who
always got things right, even if his desk was a
mess.
Clinton
said he has known about the federal probe of Berger's actions for
several months, calling this
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/20/04 7:52 PM
Daniel Davies wrote:
I'd be *very* careful how one went about this. It feels like entryism,
and
the experience of the (UK) Labour Party in the 1980s suggests that the
'mainstream' Dems would react to it very badly indeed (by which I mean
that
this, if it
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/21/04 3:07 AM
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, Doug Henwood wrote:
maybe the three million or so people who voted for nader in 2000
should
take control of local democratic executive committees, use structure
in
place to recruit candidates, slag off on dems who suck, use available
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/21/04 8:41 AM
An argument against it? You would actually try it yourself if it
were really a good idea.
Yoshie
nah, doug's a journalist, he'd write about it... michael hoover
A person who puts forward a proposal should be prepared to act on it.
Otherwise, others will
In this season of leftwing documentaries, I can't imagine anything that
will surpass Howard Zinn: You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train,
which opens at the Cinema Village in NYC on July 28. With a title drawn
from his 1994 memoir, this film is much more about broader social and
political issues
Wages of Election-Year Rituals:
http://montages.blogspot.com/2004/07/wages-of-election-year-rituals.html
Michael Hoover wrote:
people do different things, as for doug, he's a reporter (he may think
of himself in other terms), i've indicated number of times in past
impact that i think this has on his perspective re. certain things
I usually say journalist, but I won't complain about reporter. I'm
i am going to try to do a bunch of responses in one message, so i do not
flood the list. this sub-thread (initiated by me) seems to be going in
the direction of a few previous ones which resulted in a flamewar (some
of it off-list). for that reason: (1) i want to point out that i am only
asking
Michael Hoover wrote:
people do different things, as for doug, he's a reporter (he may think
of himself in other terms), i've indicated number of times in past
impact that i think this has on his perspective re. certain things
To which Doug Henwood replied:
I usually say journalist, but I
Is this discussion being read by anyone? I just tuned in and found this
entry. Where do you find in Marx any reference to innate greed as the
motivation for accumulation under capital? Greed, sloth, etc., are among the
seven deadly sins of western mythology and religious doctrine, the basis of
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Michael Hoover wrote:
self-selected candidates often don't care whether they get local party
support or not (and sometimes prefer not), surely progressive/left folks
can do better than this with whatever shell of an organization exists...
I think there is now a much more
Louis,
thank you for this thoughtful review. Where and when will it run?
Also, just to clarify--the film opens on July 23rd and runs
indefinitely, but Howard will be in attendance at the July 28th
screening only.
--
Kelly Hargraves
Publicity
First Run Features
1-877-457-5133 (toll free)
Title: Message
Thought you might find this interesting - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6528.htm
Title: Message
please, let's
not compare _anyone_ to Hitler. That kind of discussion degenerates
quickly...
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
-Original Message-From: PEN-L list
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Craven, JimSent:
Wednesday,
What is the best source that discusses the pre-reform political and economic
developments in China. The Monthly Review special issue focuses almost
entirely on post-1978. Would a comparison of directions/developments pre-
and post -978 be worthwhile?
Joel Wendland
http://www.politicalaffairs.net
Ralph Johansen wrote:
Where do you find in Marx any reference to innate greed as the
motivation for accumulation under capital? Greed, sloth, etc., are
among the
seven deadly sins of western mythology and religious doctrine, the
basis of
Judaeo-Christian guilt, not the basis for accumulation
The HinduTuesday, Jul 20, 2004Indonesian church minister killedJAKARTA: Unidentified gunmen burst into a church in central Indonesia andopened fire, killing the woman minister and wounding four worshippers,police said on Monday. The killing on Sunday evening took place in Palu,central Sulawesi
Regarding greed and capitalism, a couple of questions based upon the quotations from
Mr. Winslow:
Is Marx making an empirical point? Based upon observation, capitalists are motivated
by greed? Or is it a definitional point -- under capitalism, capitalists by
definition are motivated by
[I saw this at a festival this winter. It's a wonderful movie about the
ambivalences of being a woman. Funny, heart-warming, and for me at least,
very informative. It gives a deeply satisfying explanation of the
oft-cited statistic of why most women are wearing the wrong size bra --
which turns
Hi Ulhas!
Its good to hear from you and thanks for the post -- I had just read
about the tragic event in the IHT. Disastrous and so
dreadful. We might find the following commentary by Meidyatama
Suryodiningrat on the upcoming runoff and the future of a democratic
system in Indonesia, somewhat
The Financial ExpressFriday, July 16, 2004HDI Improves, Ranking Doesn'tOUR POLICY BUREAUPosted online: Friday, July 16, 2004 at 0103 hours ISTNEW DELHI, JULY 15: India's human development index (HDI) has shown asteady improvement in the last couple of years. India's ranking, however, at127 out of
To what extent has India managed to handle it diversity other than the Hindu/Muslim
split?
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
David Shemano wrote:
Is Marx making an empirical point?
Yes. It's an empirical claim about the psychology dominant in
capitalism. The idea of greed' as an irrational passion is ancient.
As Marx points out in Capital, it can be found in Aristotle.
Aristotle opposes Oeconomic to Chrematistic.
David S. writes:
Is Marx making an empirical point? Based upon observation, capitalists
are motivated by greed? Or is it a definitional point -- under
capitalism, capitalists by definition are motivated by greed. For
instance, let's hypothesize a man who decides in his youth that there is a
The Financial ExpressFriday, July 16, 2004HDI Improves, Ranking Doesn'tOUR POLICY BUREAUPosted online: Friday, July 16, 2004 at 0103 hours ISTNEW DELHI, JULY 15: India's human development index (HDI) has shown asteady improvement in the last couple of years. India's ranking, however, at127 out of
Gil Skillman wrote:
From a certain theoretical standpoint--and I'm talking mainstream
theory,
not Marxist--these questions are irrelevant. Given competitive
markets (or
indeed, just competitive markets for firm equity shares), it can be
shown
that, whatever their personal consumption goals,
I recall that they jiggled to index to make the US look better. Is my
memory playing tricks on me?
Louis Proyect wrote:
Is now available at:
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2004/pdf/hdr04_HDI.pdf
It is *highly* interesting that for the first time ever Cuba has made it
into the High human
Ted Winslow wrote:
Greed in this context can't be translated into instrumentally
rational profit maximization.
Ted, all this squishy talk makes economists nervous.
Doug
michael wrote:
I recall that they jiggled to index to make the US look better. Is my
memory playing tricks on me?
That was long ago, in the HDI's early days. In the first iteration,
the U.S. scored badly. As someone in the UN told me, orders came
down from the top - the White House - to make the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/21/04 10:44 AM
louis, re. post header: not a dime's worth of difference, have you
changed your mind since below appeared as part of earlier post a few
months ago:
Glick is basically mounting a false polemic. He characterizes radicals
in the Debs and Malcolm X tradition as
Gil Skillman wrote:
So to the extent that firm managers respond to the concerns
of equity holders, they will act as though greedy--that is,
operate the firm so as to maximize (the expected present value
of) profit.
I believe Gil meant expected present value of future cash flows/net
This requires a long response but I must make it short. The Hindu-Muslim
divide is India's least problematic cultural divide. If one were to rank
the splits (which in itself is problematic because of its binary approach)
it would the dalits and the tribal communities versus the rest. The
dalits
Michael Hoover wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/21/04 10:44 AM
louis, re. post header: not a dime's worth of difference, have you
changed your mind since below appeared as part of earlier post a few
months ago:
I am well aware that there is ten cents worth of difference between the
two parties. I
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