> Studies have often shown that for every male diagnosed as suffering
> from depression, two to six times as many females are so diagnosed.
> Perhaps overconfidence (relative to actual capacities) in men are
> socially expected and economically rewarded (at least relative to
> women), hence o
> Furthermore, the book that Sommers hates so much--Naomi Wolf's "The Beauty
> Myth"--is absolutely correct. Although Wolf probably doesn't analyze the
> underlying system that causes anorexia (as an adviser now to Gore, this
> should be obvious), it is clear that we are dealing with the
> commo
What are we to conclude? That even the Right have realized that they
need to hire women like Christina Hoff Sommers once in a while, at
least when they are putting down feminism, affirmative action, etc.
We've come a long way, baby!
Yoshie
>So what are we to conclude?
> Cheers, Ken Hanly
> Maybe I was too subtle. She picked stuff out of the air, and
> misrepresented her sources. Read the Flanders piece.
>
> Doug
Methinks it is you who's picking stuff out of the air making
accusations against Sommers without offering any evidence.
> I agree entirely. In fact, I've been spouting this view, for years. I'd
> be interesteed to know whether anyone has any good arguments against it.
They don't except the irrational wannabe leftist pretences you find
in Doug, or the purist (=conservatist) reaction you find in Proyect,
or the
> Ricardo, Doug offered the Flanders piece as evidence.
That's not evidence without telling us what Flanders says! Why
dont you tell us, or am I supposed to read the piece and the say
"Ah, Flanders is right!" Hear me pen-l, I read Flanders, she's right.
Case proven.
I read it and it
> s
Rob, thinks for reminding the totalitarians that I said "the gay who
control the fashion industry" not all the gay!
> So: Ricardo and Jo make no conspiracy claim, and suggest a
> tenable, if moot, explanation (being conditioning consciousness, mebbe?).
>
> >What I see is that women's bodies
On 1 Aug 00, at 10:44, Louis Proyect wrote:
I meant to say "thanks" to Rob.
Although my concern is with Sommer's *War against Boys",
which I thought was what Flanders had criticized, I will still offer
some comments on this eventhoug I have not read Stolen
Feminism.
> September/October 199
Duchesne:
>was this study done by the same people who told us that 150,000
>American died of anorexia every year (a # higher than that of
>fatalities from car accidents!) For more false data propagated by
>womyn's depts, see Sommers Who Stole Feminism? How Women
>Have Betrayed Women.
Sommers
>was this study done by the same people who told us that 150,000
>American died of anorexia every year (a # higher than that of
>fatalities from car accidents!) For more false data propagated by
>womyn's depts, see Sommers Who Stole Feminism? How Women
>Have Betrayed Women.
One other thing,
> Just because she works for AEI doesn't mean she's wrong. But in fact
> she's sloppy and devious. Laura Flanders fact-checked a lot of her
> claims in her last book and found them seriously undersourced, to put
> it mildly:
I would not be surprised to find "undersourcing" in this book
(pe
Duchesne:
>Now I think you're pushing the commodification thing too far. Why
>would capitalisn need extremely thin women?
I am afraid you don't understand my point. Chinese feudal society did not
'need' women with bound feet. We are talking about capitalist SOCIETY. The
way a society operates i
> My own view is that this problem is (partly) due to the
> fact that the gay men who control the fashion are not interested in
> real women but prefer them to look asexual or androgynous.
Oh yeah, all my straight male students barf when I mention Tyra Banks. But
now I see it: they're all dupes
At 17:54 31-07-00 , Ricardo wrote:
. My own view is that this problem is (partly) due to the
>fact that the gay men who control the fashion are not interested in
>real women but prefer them to look asexual or androgynous.
I agree entirely. In fact, I've been spouting this view, for years.
Ricardo, Doug offered the Flanders piece as evidence. I read it and it
sounded fairly convincing. We don't need to debate Flanders. My concern
is the way that you tend to personalize discussions. Attacking Doug seems
provocative and without any purpose except to cause dissention.
Such negativ
>Methinks it is you who's picking stuff out of the air making
>accusations against Sommers without offering any evidence.
Extra! (fair.org)
September/October 1994
>From the Women's Desk:
The "Stolen Feminism" Hoax: Anti-Feminist Attack Based on Error-Filled
Anecdotes
By Laura Flanders
In
Knowing Ms. Sommers and her work, if she told me the sun was shining at noon, I would
have to check for myself and get several independent observers to confirm before I
believed it. She is a liar and the truth is not in her. and I do not say this because
I (the resident Hayekian!) automatically
Louis Proyect wrote:
>Duchesne:
>>was this study done by the same people who told us that 150,000
>>American died of anorexia every year (a # higher than that of
>>fatalities from car accidents!) For more false data propagated by
>>womyn's depts, see Sommers Who Stole Feminism? How Women
>>Have
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
> > Just because she works for AEI doesn't mean she's wrong. But in fact
>> she's sloppy and devious. Laura Flanders fact-checked a lot of her
>> claims in her last book and found them seriously undersourced, to put
>> it mildly:
>
>I would not be surprised to find "un
christian a. gregory wrote:
> > My own view is that this problem is (partly) due to the
>> fact that the gay men who control the fashion are not interested in
>> real women but prefer them to look asexual or androgynous.
>
>Oh yeah, all my straight male students barf when I mention Tyra Banks.
So what are we to conclude?
Cheers, Ken Hanly
Louis Proyect wrote:
> Duchesne:
> >was this study done by the same people who told us that 150,000
> >American died of anorexia every year (a # higher than that of
> >fatalities from car accidents!) For more false data propagated by
> >womyn's d
Greetings Economists,
Joanna Sheldon writes,
Joanna,
At 17:54 31-07-00 , Ricardo wrote:
.. My own view is that this problem is (partly) due to the
>fact that the gay men who control the fashion are not interested in
>real women but prefer them to look asexual or androgynous.
I agree entirely
>At 17:54 31-07-00 , Ricardo wrote:
>. My own view is that this problem is (partly) due to the
> >fact that the gay men who control the fashion are not interested in
> >real women but prefer them to look asexual or androgynous.
>
>I agree entirely. In fact, I've been spouting this view, for years
The nonsense about a gay conspiracy to deform women goes back at least
to the 1940s -- which is as far back as my memory goes. Probably it goes
back further than that. It has the same intellectual integrity as the
Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Carrol
At 04:55 AM 8/1/00 -0400, you wrote:
>At 17:54 31-07-00 , Ricardo wrote:
>. My own view is that this problem is (partly) due to the
> >fact that the gay men who control the fashion are not interested in
> >real women but prefer them to look asexual or androgynous.
>
>I agree entirely. In fact, I'
Ricardo wrote:
> > Maybe I was too subtle. She picked stuff out of the air, and
> > misrepresented her sources. Read the Flanders piece.
> >
> > Doug
>
>Methinks it is you who's picking stuff out of the air making
>accusations against Sommers without offering any evidence.
At 5:34 PM -0300 7/31/
At 06:16 PM 7/31/00 -0400, you wrote:
>> I see it in my own classes ... : they [college students] seem out of
>> place, lack confidence, not sure what they want, etc.
I'd bet that college students, both male and female, have felt out of
place, lacking confidence, etc. since the institution of
You always get a rise outa me, Doyle - dunno how you do it. Here, I don't
even disagree with you across the board!
Ricardo gave us:
>.. My own view is that this problem is (partly) due to the
>>fact that the gay men who control the fashion are not interested in
>>real women but prefer them to l
Do most fashion models look to be androgynous or asexual? I think Twiggys are
rare these days. I will do a study on that in order to enable my voyeuristic
tendencies, assuming I obtain sufficient donations from Pen-lers I have looked
at a few of the fashion shows on TV and the females parading up
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>
> Speaking of evidence, can Ricardo offer evidence for his insinuation
> that studies that have found "for every male diagnosed as suffering
> from depression, two to six times as many females are so diagnosed"
> are inaccurate? What's his ground for thinking so? Is
For good criticism of Gilligan see also a fine book called the Mismeasure of Woman, I
forget the author, and Susan Faludi's first book. --jks
In a message dated Tue, 1 Aug 2000 5:11:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Yoshie Furuhashi
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
<< Ricardo wrote:
> > Maybe I was to
Rob wrote:
>G'day Carrol ( yeah, I know you don't read my posts, but that doesn't mean
>one of us can't be civil, eh?)
>
> >The disproportion in rates of clinical depression between men and women is
> >one of those facts so widely known and accepted that like the fact that
> >Lansing is the capit
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote,
> Actually, nearly all feminists -- including even Carol Gilligan --
> have written about how sexism victimizes men as well, not just women
> (if you haven't noticed the prevalence of this argument in feminism,
> you haven't read many feminists). And this feminist recogni
At 04:29 PM 08/01/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>
> >
> > Speaking of evidence, can Ricardo offer evidence for his insinuation
> > that studies that have found "for every male diagnosed as suffering
> > from depression, two to six times as many females are so diagnosed"
> > are i
At 06:36 PM 08/01/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>For good criticism of Gilligan see also a fine book called the Mismeasure
>of Woman, I forget the author
Carol Tavris. It's a good book (though it leaves important stuff out).
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~JDevine
G'day Carrol ( yeah, I know you don't read my posts, but that doesn't mean
one of us can't be civil, eh?)
>The disproportion in rates of clinical depression between men and women is
>one of those facts so widely known and accepted that like the fact that
>Lansing is the capital of Michigan it doe
G'day Yoshie,
>Yes (and Carrol did so in his post),
Oh, I realise Carrol added the required reservations; I just wasn't sure
where he was going with 'em.
>>The patronising and stifling insult sustained by women here seems the pick
>>of two real stinkers ...
>
>What do you exactly refer to in th
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
> > sound reasons to be depressed)
This reduces the whole discussion to nonsense. The *whole* point about clinical
depression is that one is "depressed" WITHOUT any reasons, sound or otherwise,
for being depressed. (We are not dealing here with the "ultimate" causes,
w
>Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>
>> > sound reasons to be depressed)
>
>This reduces the whole discussion to nonsense. The *whole* point about
>clinical
>depression is that one is "depressed" WITHOUT any reasons, sound or otherwise,
>for being depressed. (We are not dealing here with the "ultimate" cau
Greetings Economists,
I will reach into Carrol's comments on depression to make a point about
rationality which leaps out at me from Carrol's comments,
Carrol,
..."Most of us, when "depressed," are unable to do sustained reading (of any
texts). I own a stationary bicycle, and while suffering
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