Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

Sterling Hughes wrote: In what country can you walk onto the floor of the congress (parliament) without sponsorship? OTOH in which country do you *trust* your parliament? -- Six Offene Systeme GmbH http://www.six.de/ i.A. Hartmut Holzgraefe Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel.: +49-711-99091-7

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

Sascha Schumann wrote: The list could be renamed so that it is less confusing for newbie PHP developers. it is already advertised as "Internals list" on http://www.php.net/mailing-lists.php, so maybe we should cange it to php-internal-dev@ or something? or even better [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;)

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

I think, on web page is bad text. User's don't know if is it for PHP developers or "about" _PHP_ developers.. Jan > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jani Taskinen wrote: > > > > > Of about 20 emails today, 6 were posted to wrong mailing > > list. And one of those

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Tom Sommer wrote: > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:44:20 +0200 (EET), Jani Taskinen wrote: > > > 1. Rename the list to php-group > > And the newsgroup? since lots of the spam comes from NNTP directly, I would > think(?) Some does, but not a lot. Derick --

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Andi Gutmans wrote: > At 11:01 PM 3/12/2003 +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > > I wouldn't consider 3rd one that drastic. > > > It has worked very well for me, I haven't got any spam > > > to my php.net addy, but people who really wanted to send me > > > email

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> > We don't lose anything by giving the first two items some > > time to prove their usefullness. On the other hand, it is > > very likely that we will lose useful input, if we implement > > the third item prematurely. > > I disagree. Anyone here can handle replying because we alr

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

At 11:01 PM 3/12/2003 +0100, Sascha Schumann wrote: > I wouldn't consider 3rd one that drastic. > It has worked very well for me, I haven't got any spam > to my php.net addy, but people who really wanted to send me > email got through.. Well, maybe I am an exception, but I usual

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sascha Schumann wrote: >> I wouldn't consider 3rd one that drastic. >> It has worked very well for me, I haven't got any spam >> to my php.net addy, but people who really wanted to send me >> email got through.. > >Well, maybe I am an exception, but I usual

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:44:20 +0200 (EET), Jani Taskinen wrote: > 1. Rename the list to php-group And the newsgroup? since lots of the spam comes from NNTP directly, I would think(?) -- Tom Sommer, denmark www.tsn.dk - www.dreamcoder.dk -- PHP Development Mailing List

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> I wouldn't consider 3rd one that drastic. > It has worked very well for me, I haven't got any spam > to my php.net addy, but people who really wanted to send me > email got through.. Well, maybe I am an exception, but I usually don't bother to "register" myself anywhere,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sascha Schumann wrote: >Jani, > >> 1. Rename the list to php-group > >bad name for obvious reasons. Georg's suggestion of >"internals" sounds ok to me. Or "hackers" from the FreeBSD >community. internals,hackers,whatever, as long as it's not php-dev.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

Jani, > 1. Rename the list to php-group bad name for obvious reasons. Georg's suggestion of "internals" sounds ok to me. Or "hackers" from the FreeBSD community. > 2. Separate the list entries in mailing-lists.php [DONE!] > 3. Apply the same system as is in use

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

After reading all the comments, I came to conclusion that we will do the following compromise: 1. Rename the list to php-group 2. Separate the list entries in mailing-lists.php [DONE!] 3. Apply the same system as is in use for our @php.net addresses for spam-pr

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

This discussion itself is creating more spam than those emails people send. I agree with Sascha that we shouldn't take drastic measures. We still want to make it easy for people to join the PHP developer's community. I think the most interesting idea so far was Shane's first post response system.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> Aside from renaming the php-dev list, we should remove the 'PHP and Zend > Engine internals lists' from the regular mailing list page, put them in > a 'developers' section (name isn't important) that describes cvs access, > dev email lists, how to build (ie. win32 libraries), etc. As a newbie c

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wednesday 12 March 2003 17:59, Jani Taskinen wrote: > Of about 20 emails today, 6 were posted to wrong mailing > list. And one of those generated a 5 email thread about not > posting to wrong mailing list. (counting this one :) > > So I suggest we finally make this list MODERATED

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > Yes, because getting a cvs account is just *s* hard. > > The problem is that you easily lose valuable postings when > you force people to go through some restrictive system. > > I'm especially worried about inter-group communication

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Tom Sommer wrote: > I agree, I think changing the name is the way to go, and to remove it from > the public mailing lists (or put it under another category) > > Don't forget that mailing lists is not the whole problem, many also use > news groups :) > > php.internal > php.c

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:31:56 -0500, John Coggeshall wrote: > In > any case, moderating this list would end up completely alientating > everyone but those who are "significant developers". I agree, I think changing the name is the way to go, and to remove it from the public mailing lists (or put

RE: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

We'll see who reads this, any responses are welcome. I see a few different issues here: 1) People who want answers for a php-general message post it to the development forum. This is clearly because they do not understand the difference, as I doubt anyone wants to waste their own time posting a

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:14:03 +0100 (CET) Derick Rethans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Instead of this it might be a better idea to make somebody's first post > moderated, after it has been approved the poster is added to the allow > list, if not he gets back a message like I copy&paste everytime

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > You lose: > > You lose time for implementing and maintaining this system, > and you lose time for moderating emails. You also reduce the > incentive to contribute. I lose time to reply to them now too and copy and pasting my stuff, I

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> You lose: You lose time for implementing and maintaining this system, and you lose time for moderating emails. You also reduce the incentive to contribute. Again, let's take the less intrusive steps first and leave the heavy handed ones as a last resort. - Sascha --

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

At 20:00 12.03.2003, Weston Houghton wrote: This worries me somewhat. I do not have a CVS account. I do not actively develop and contribute to the PHP sourcecode right now, however my company uses php very very much. I would like to keep up to date on what is happening with the development team

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Shane Caraveo wrote: > But for the sake of writing...here's another idea. > > So how about a first post response system, similar to the subscription > response. That first post would not actually be posted to the email > list, but rather an email would be sent back to the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> Yes, because getting a cvs account is just *s* hard. The problem is that you easily lose valuable postings when you force people to go through some restrictive system. I'm especially worried about inter-group communication. E.g. where php-dev is involved in a discussion wit

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

Shane Caraveo wrote: Then another item that might be considered if it is not already done, allowing posts only from those that have cvs access. A second conditional list of allowed posters can be added that are people who do not have cvs access, but we want to allow to post. Otherwise, the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

A secondary followup, as I do work on php extensions, I do think that questions regarding those would fall to this list, but again might not require a cvs account? Just playing Devil's Advocate to some extent here. Wes On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 01:45 PM, Sterling Hughes wrote: On Wed,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> This worries me somewhat. I do not have a CVS account. I do not > actively develop and contribute to the PHP sourcecode right now, > however my company uses php very very much. I would like to keep up to > date on what is happening with the development team and figuring out > what directions they

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 14:00, Weston Houghton wrote: > This worries me somewhat. I do not have a CVS account. I do not > actively develop and contribute to the PHP sourcecode right now, > however my company uses php very very much. I would like to keep up to > date on what is happening with the d

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

>> If the post does not match this criteria, please send it to >> on of the other lists, otherwise respond to this email and your original >> message will go out. > > And they would probably not read it, just read the part how to get the email > to the list. They don't read the comment what purpos

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

This worries me somewhat. I do not have a CVS account. I do not actively develop and contribute to the PHP sourcecode right now, however my company uses php very very much. I would like to keep up to date on what is happening with the development team and figuring out what directions they are l

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Magnus [ISO-8859-1] M ![ISO-8859-1] gnus X^B wrote: > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:47:27 -0800 > Shane Caraveo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > So how about a first post response system, similar to the subscription > > response. That first post would not actually be posted to the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:47:27 -0800 Shane Caraveo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So how about a first post response system, similar to the subscription > response. That first post would not actually be posted to the email > list, but rather an email would be sent back to the poster stating the >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> So how about a first post response system, similar to the subscription > response. That first post would not actually be posted to the email > list, but rather an email would be sent back to the poster stating the > purpose of the email list, and what kind of materials are expected on > the list

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

A couple thoughts Aside from renaming the php-dev list, we should remove the 'PHP and Zend Engine internals lists' from the regular mailing list page, put them in a 'developers' section (name isn't important) that describes cvs access, dev email lists, how to build (ie. win32 libraries), e

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sterling Hughes wrote: > It doesn't. They are free to send the mail to whomever they like, even > put up a website with their ideas. They are not censured, they are > restricted. In what country can you walk onto the floor of the congress > (parliament) without sponsorship?

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

At 18:50 12.03.2003, Steph wrote: php-dev-team might lose a few.. ...think f..ing hard..read.oh php-dev-team...thinkCOOL, they solve my problem, i'm getting better at it and finally a team member >>COOL<< what ever name we give this list draws attention to newbies as long as it contains the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 12:50, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > Let's ask the mysql guys, they did change the name too. (I think that we > > atleast agree that the noise is annoying, right?) > > Not really. Maybe I'm more used to skipping noise. > *exactly* my point btw. We skip noise, skip noise,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

Sascha Schumann wrote: Aside from renaming the php-dev list, we should remove the 'PHP and Zend [snip] Sounds good. Then another item that might be considered if it is not already done, allowing posts only from those that have cvs access. A second conditional list of allowed posters can be

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> > Then another item that might be considered if it is not already done, > > allowing posts only from those that have cvs access. A second > > conditional list of allowed posters can be added that are people who do > > not have cvs access, but we want to allow to post. Otherwise, the list > > c

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Shane Caraveo wrote: > Sascha Schumann wrote: > >>if even that description doesn't work, then nothing would work, not even > >>changing the name. > > > > > > Well, it is obvious that some folks don't read that > > description and simply move forward, because "php-dev

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

I propose a rename to php.c-internals.dev This leaves no confusion, it is about developing in C and C++ the language of PHP. I think restricting to those with cvs accounts is not the best solution. It excludes first-time users who have a useful patch from posting a message. Regards, Greg -

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> Aside from renaming the php-dev list, we should remove the 'PHP and Zend [snip] Sounds good. > Then another item that might be considered if it is not already done, > allowing posts only from those that have cvs access. A second > conditional list of allowed posters can be added that are p

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> A couple thoughts > > Aside from renaming the php-dev list, we should remove the 'PHP and Zend > Engine internals lists' from the regular mailing list page, put them in > a 'developers' section (name isn't important) that describes cvs access, > dev email lists, how to build (ie. win32 librar

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Shane Caraveo wrote: > Aside from renaming the php-dev list, we should remove the 'PHP and Zend > Engine internals lists' from the regular mailing list page, put them in > a 'developers' section (name isn't important) that describes cvs access, > dev email lists, how to bui

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

Sascha Schumann wrote: if even that description doesn't work, then nothing would work, not even changing the name. Well, it is obvious that some folks don't read that description and simply move forward, because "php-dev" sounds about right. They are "PHP developers" and so a list ca

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

Hi, Derick Rethans wrote: On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sascha Schumann wrote: if even that description doesn't work, then nothing would work, not even changing the name. Well, it is obvious that some folks don't read that description and simply move forward, because "php-dev" sounds about right

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> Let's ask the mysql guys, they did change the name too. (I think that we > atleast agree that the noise is annoying, right?) Not really. Maybe I'm more used to skipping noise. - Sascha -- PHP Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/uns

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

php-dev-team might lose a few.. - Original Message - From: "Sascha Schumann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Derick Rethans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Jani Taskinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sascha Schumann wrote: > > if even that description doesn't work, then nothing would work, not even > > changing the name. > > Well, it is obvious that some folks don't read that > description and simply move forward, because "php-dev" sounds > about right. They

RE: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wednesday, March 12, 2003 12:41 PM, Derick Rethans wrote: > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sascha Schumann wrote: > >> The list could be renamed so that it is less confusing for >> newbie PHP developers. > > What is confusing with this description? > > "Internals list > A medium volume list for t

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> if even that description doesn't work, then nothing would work, not even > changing the name. Well, it is obvious that some folks don't read that description and simply move forward, because "php-dev" sounds about right. They are "PHP developers" and so a list called "php-dev" m

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jani Taskinen wrote: > > It was a 7 hour period. And not only today, > this happens daily. (maybe not in this scale) > For me, even 1 OT email is too much. > > (But it's propably just me, who is stupid enough to read > EVERY email coming here.) I'm

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Sascha Schumann wrote: > The list could be renamed so that it is less confusing for > newbie PHP developers. What is confusing with this description? "Internals list A medium volume list for those who want to help out with the development of PHP" (from http://www.p

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:07 PM >Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV > > >> >> It was a 7 hour period. And not only today, >> this happens daily. (maybe not in this scale) >> For me, even 1 OT email is too much.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

> To: "Andrey Hristov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV > > It was a 7 hour period. And not only today, > this happens daily. (maybe not in this scale) > For

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

| -1. | | The list could be renamed so that it is less confusing for | newbie PHP developers. | | - Sascha I agree. Brian. dealnews.com -- PHP Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

istov wrote: > I think this is just a bad day :) > >Andrey > >- Original Message - >From: "Jani Taskinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 6:59 PM >Subject: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 12:01, Derick Rethans wrote: > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jani Taskinen wrote: > > > > > Of about 20 emails today, 6 were posted to wrong mailing > > list. And one of those generated a 5 email thread about not > > posting to wrong mailing list. (counting this one :) >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jani Taskinen wrote: > > Of about 20 emails today, 6 were posted to wrong mailing > list. And one of those generated a 5 email thread about not > posting to wrong mailing list. (counting this one :) > > So I suggest we finally make this list MODERATED. -1.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

I think this is just a bad day :) Andrey - Original Message - From: "Jani Taskinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 6:59 PM Subject: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV > > Of about 20 emails today, 6 were posted

Re: [PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Jani Taskinen wrote: > > Of about 20 emails today, 6 were posted to wrong mailing > list. And one of those generated a 5 email thread about not > posting to wrong mailing list. (counting this one :) > > So I suggest we finally make this list MODERATED. +

[PHP-DEV] Moderate PHP-DEV

Of about 20 emails today, 6 were posted to wrong mailing list. And one of those generated a 5 email thread about not posting to wrong mailing list. (counting this one :) So I suggest we finally make this list MODERATED. --Jani -- PHP Development Mailing List