Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 1:48 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: >> I meant that a note to webmaster@ would have alerted the rest of the web >> team and we would have avoided this whole mess. > > Agreed. > Probably not, as I still would have promised him to create blog.php.net if he successfully pulled of t

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Jonny Stirling wrote: > Pierre, > > I think I can see what you're getting at with that suggestion, but I don't > believe it fits with what the ideas have been. It is. The idea was to have a blog. > From what I can tell your suggestion is effectively a variation

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > > I think people.php.net could be a good place. > > Something like https://sculpin.io/ could be used, using one git > repo/module per user. but people.php.net really needs some love, it > looks suboptimal and horrible right now :) > > Cheers,

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Joe Watkins wrote: > Zeev, > > > While you’re at it, consider apologizing for your unacceptable choice of > words. > It's not reasonable to completely ignore my intentions, what I thought was > happening, what I was told to do ... completely not fair. I do not

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Zeev, > While you’re at it, consider apologizing for your unacceptable choice of words. I'm sorry that you find my words unacceptable. I've already said I was wrong to act on the little consensus I had, but I did actually have one, the wrong kind of consensus ... sorry. I didn't remove the pos

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> I meant that a note to webmaster@ would have alerted the rest of the web > team and we would have avoided this whole mess. Agreed. Zeev -- PHP Webmaster List Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On 5/29/14, 1:45 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: >> Joe, the root problem here is that turning www.php.net into a developer >> blog is a decision that takes a bit more than a couple of people agreeing >> late >> at night on irc when many of us were asleep. At the very least a quick >> email >> to webmaster

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> Joe, the root problem here is that turning www.php.net into a developer > blog is a decision that takes a bit more than a couple of people agreeing > late > at night on irc when many of us were asleep. At the very least a quick > email > to webmaster@ would have been in order. I want to point ou

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Zeev, it's cowardly to say "I don't know who it was" or "it doesn't matter who it was", you can read my name on the commit, and know full well who it was, if you have something to say, say it. Joe, I think you just derailed this conversation in a manner that I’m surprised so many people answere

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 12:40 AM, Joe Watkins wrote: > I don't see those quoted numbers here, *at all*. > Hi Joe, I personally compiled those numbers by reading every single message on this thread to-date and tallying according to what each person said. There is some inherent subjectivity inv

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Hi Joe, On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Joe Watkins wrote: > I don't see those quoted numbers here, *at all*. > > Zeev, it's cowardly to say "I don't know who it was" or "it doesn't matter > who it was", you can read my name on the commit, and know full well who it > was, if you have something t

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Thu, 29 May 2014, Levi Morrison wrote: > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Kris Craig wrote: > > > Thank you for removing it from the front page, Zeev. It needed to > > be done. > > > > Based on the discussion here, I've compiled an informal count of who > > advocates which action: > > > > R

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Hi Joe! I think however anyone sees the announcement you have authored, it is a new thing that was never done before on php.net, and we all agree on that. And it came as surprise to many participants of the project. I think in the PHP project we see php.net as something representing all of us, and

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On 29/05/14 08:40, Joe Watkins wrote: Those people I respect understand what I was doing and why, and are still supportive of the idea to have a developer blog it's just a shame that we seem to have a community that is incompatible, completely incompatible. Joe - lets just leave it as you were

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On 5/29/14, 12:40 AM, Joe Watkins wrote: > Those people I respect understand what I was doing and why, and are still > supportive of the idea to have a developer blog it's just a shame that we > seem to have a community that is incompatible, completely incompatible. Joe, the root problem here is t

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Joe Watkins wrote: > I don't see those quoted numbers here, *at all*. > > Zeev, it's cowardly to say "I don't know who it was" or "it doesn't matter > who it was", you can read my name on the commit, and know full well who it > was, if you have something to say, s

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

I don't see those quoted numbers here, *at all*. Zeev, it's cowardly to say "I don't know who it was" or "it doesn't matter who it was", you can read my name on the commit, and know full well who it was, if you have something to say, say it. Andi, It's not fair to call me unprofessional for bothe

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Kris Craig wrote: > Thank you for removing it from the front page, Zeev. It needed to be done. > > Based on the discussion here, I've compiled an informal count of who > advocates which action: > > Remove the post: 13 (81.25%) > > and don't replace it: 1 (6.

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Thank you for removing it from the front page, Zeev. It needed to be done. Based on the discussion here, I've compiled an informal count of who advocates which action: Remove the post: 13 (81.25%) and don't replace it: 1 (6.25%; 7.69%) and replace (or modify) it: 10 (62.5%; 76.92%)

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> I am about 99% confident you have karma; why haven't you done it? After 2815 days from the previous commit, I've finally committed something new to phpweb... I unlinked the news entry from the homepage but for now kept it on the 2014 archive so that whomever kept links they'd still work. Zeev

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> I am about 99% confident you have karma; why haven't you done it? Because I haven't touched the phpweb repository for probably around a decade. I admit I'm looking into doing it right now, but hoped that those who did it will undo it. Zeev -- PHP Webmaster List Mailing List (http://www.php.n

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > Ferenc, > > Nobody here plays a blame game, like I said, who did it doesn’t really > matter. The fact that this is still on our front page does. > > Can we, for the love of PHP, remove this message from www.php.net’s front > page? Let’s keep

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Ferenc, Nobody here plays a blame game, like I said, who did it doesn’t really matter. The fact that this is still on our front page *does**.* Can we, for the love of PHP, remove this message from www.php.net’sfront page? Let’s keep the message but unlink it from the h

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > On Wed, 2014-05-28 at 18:47 +0200, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > > I agree that this doesn't belong to the frontpage, nor do we did ever > have > > stuff like this there. > > But I also think that removing it would do more harm than good at th

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, 2014-05-28 at 18:47 +0200, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > I agree that this doesn't belong to the frontpage, nor do we did ever have > stuff like this there. > But I also think that removing it would do more harm than good at this > point. > I also think that having a easier to understand channel

RE: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> Zeev, > > I did not post the news entry; I am only trying to improve it Sorry, I misunderstood when you said you were one of the 3 which were there when it was conceived. Zeev -- PHP Webmaster List Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> I'm really not sure why you're still fighting this. If I were in your shoes > I'd admit messing up, apologize, and quickly remove this post. And I'm not > flaming or bashing anybody, we're all humans and we all make mistakes. Zeev, I did not post the news entry; I am only trying to improve it

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:58 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > I agree that this doesn't belong to the frontpage, nor do we did ever have > stuff like this there. > > But I also think that removing it would do more harm than good at this > point. > > > > Why? What’s bad about properly retracting it and e

RE: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

I agree that this doesn't belong to the frontpage, nor do we did ever have stuff like this there. But I also think that removing it would do more harm than good at this point. Why? What’s bad about properly retracting it and explaining it wasn’t meant for www.php.net? I’m not arguing for a 40

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > Personally I think that it would be counter-productive to remove this > entry now, I think the best course of action would be improving the entry > to remove the controversial parts (what you already mentioned doing it > yourself), and as nob

RE: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Personally I think that it would be counter-productive to remove this entry now, I think the best course of action would be improving the entry to remove the controversial parts (what you already mentioned doing it yourself), and as nobody argued against the intention of the post, I think it would

RE: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> Where does it say we need to reach a consensus on what we put on our > homepage? You're right, we actually don't. There's an established track record of what kind of material goes onto www.php.net. This post clearly isn't it. I'm really not sure why you're still fighting this. If I were in y

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Levi Morrison wrote: > > I think that regardless of how we phrase it, it does not belong on > > www.php.net at this time[...] > > > > Deviating from that line requires a strong majority if not consensus, > > which is clearly not there at this point. It should be

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> I think that regardless of how we phrase it, it does not belong on > www.php.net at this time[...] > > Deviating from that line requires a strong majority if not consensus, > which is clearly not there at this point. It should be removed until > such consensus is reached, if at all. That is all

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> On 28 במאי 2014, at 18:34, Levi Morrison wrote: > > All of these things > are *good things*; let's stop the flaming and raging and be > constructive. Levi, There's not raging or flaming. I don't think there's any hard feelings by anybody. We just want to remedy the situation. > I'm currentl

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Last night Joe, Hannes and a few others were talking about the misinformation out there about PHPNG how it would be nice if the PHP project as a whole conveyed more information about what is going on with our projects, sort of how we used to have a PHP Weekly. Basically, PHP internals developers co

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Let me point out that there is not a single person in this thread who was there when this news entry was conceived, drafted and posted. Please, everyone calm down and wait for someone to respond properly. That qualifies exactly three people: Hannes, joe and I. -- PHP Webmaster List Mailing List (

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Zeev, I think you missed my point a bit. While I don't disagree with what you say, my point, if any, is a hope that once this is sorted we will end up with something that does provide a place for this kind of thing to go. Bottom line. It's happened, it's now up to those in charge to decide what t

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On 28 May 2014 16:25, Zeev Suraski wrote: > "The news entry that was previously available here was mistakenly > published on www.php.net; phpng is presently under discussion on > internals@, and is not ready for consumption by most users. If you want > to read more about the phpng patch you can

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Jonny, If anything, I think how we’re handling this on these lists is lax… Someone (I don’t even know who it is and it doesn’t really matter) put facts on the ground and published an article on www.php.net that deviates greatly from anything we ever publish there without getting anything remo

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> Unfortunately it seems this has been picked up already by a lot of folks incl. I > just got a press inquiry on it. > While my instinct would say just remove it, I think it's not an option anymore. > I think we need to write something very short and sweet that has zero > opinion and only fact and

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:43 PM, guilhermebla...@gmail.com < guilhermebla...@gmail.com> wrote: > Can we please have an RFC around it, vote and then you guys can announce > wildly on php.net? > I feel really frustrated that a main article on php.net frontpage > proclaims > that next PHP will have s

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On May 28, 2014, at 12:56 AM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > Hi, > > Joe made a post about the introduction on phpng, what it is, and what it > isn't. > Some people (myself included) didn't liked that post for various reasons > (some says it is opiniated, some doesn't like the tone and the wording, > oth

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Can we please have an RFC around it, vote and then you guys can announce wildly on php.net? I feel really frustrated that a main article on php.net frontpage proclaims that next PHP will have something that haven't even been voted internally. Otherwise, anyone with website karma can post a new feat

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> Like Ferenc said, there's a tone in that message that is not subjective. > I'm not > even sure what it is, but it looks (or reads) awkward, and is unlike > anything I > can remember in the last 17+ years on www.php.net. s/not subjective/subjective -- PHP Webmaster List Mailing List (http://www

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> I'm not actually sure what it is opinionated about. If it's in regards to > the > "maybe JIT someday" aspects then that is clearly an open-ended comment, > but mostly there to say "this is not actually a JIT" which did need to be > said. Like Ferenc said, there's a tone in that message that is n

Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On May 28, 2014 1:05 PM, "Zeev Suraski" wrote: > > I think the way to deal with the misinformation is to move more quickly with > taking phpng forward; First get a formal agreement that it's going to > become the basis for the next version of PHP; I have to disagree here. It is one part, perfo

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> In all, the PHP community at large is confused thanks to people > prematurely > announcing stuff from the mailing list like its news, then adding their > opinions > on top of it without understanding a damn thing they're talking about. But the post on www.php.net is somewhat similar in that rega

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Philip Sturgeon wrote: > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Joe made a post about the introduction on phpng, what it is, and what it > > isn't. > > Some people (myself included) didn't liked that post for various reasons > > (so

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, 2014-05-28 at 11:39 +0100, Philip Sturgeon wrote: > In all, the PHP community at large is confused thanks to people > prematurely announcing stuff from the mailing list like its news, then > adding their opinions on top of it without understanding a damn thing > they're talking about. This

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > Hi, > > Joe made a post about the introduction on phpng, what it is, and what it > isn't. > Some people (myself included) didn't liked that post for various reasons > (some says it is opiniated, some doesn't like the tone and the wording, > o

[PHP-WEBMASTER] RE: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

> Would like to know what do you guys think about the best step, I see the > following possible options: I'd remove it at this point without caring too much about news, search engines or censorship. I don't remember any sort of message quite like it in www.php.net's history and I don't see a reas

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On 28 May 2014 12:26, Dmitry Stogov wrote: > I think it's a good piece of news. > Lets people see the information from the first place. *facepalm* -- PHP Webmaster List Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

I think it's a good piece of news. Lets people see the information from the first place. Thanks. Dmitry. On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > Hi, > > Joe made a post about the introduction on phpng, what it is, and what it > isn't. > Some people (myself included) didn't li

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

Hi, I'm only a lowly docs and phpweb guy, but here are my two pennies. On 28 May 2014 08:56, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > Hi, > > Joe made a post about the introduction on phpng, what it is, and what it > isn't. > Some people (myself included) didn't liked that post for various reasons > (some says i

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > Hi, > > Joe made a post about the introduction on phpng, what it is, and what it > isn't. > Some people (myself included) didn't liked that post for various reasons > (some says it is opiniated, some doesn't like the tone and the wording, > o

[PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:56 AM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > Hi, > > Joe made a post about the introduction on phpng, what it is, and what it > isn't. > Some people (myself included) didn't liked that post for various reasons > (some says it is opiniated, some doesn't like the tone and the wording, >