The whole feature.
On Sat, Feb 1, 2020 at 14:35 Greg Ewing wrote:
> On 2/02/20 6:12 am, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> > Alex, this is not ever going to be added to Python,
>
> For clarity, are you rejecting the whole idea of a "nameof" feature,
> or just byte
That's based on my observation of how the discussion went. I have been
participating in such discussions for 30 years now and I can usually tell
how it will end long before most other participants. So I actually cringe
when I see discussion go on beyond the point of usefulness. This is such a
case,
32309), so it would certainly be beneficial
>> for me to build some experience in working with the internals of the
>> executors. I think implementing this small feature would be a good
>> introduction.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 5:37 PM Guido van Rossum
>> wrote:
&
I’ve always resisted changing this, but it keeps coming up, and in other
cases we don’t restrict the grammar (except when there are real
ambiguities). So maybe the SC can accept a PRP for this?
On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 15:47 Ben Avrahami wrote:
> Hi all, decorators are a very powerful feature in p
Yes, it requires a PEP -- note that I am not longer the decider, and none
of the core devs will want to take responsibility for such a change of
heart, so it has to go to the Steering Council. And the easiest way for
that is a PEP.
On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 02:04 Eric V. Smith wrote:
> On 2/4/2020
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gt;
> P = my_int_maker(29674495668685510550154174642905332730771991,
> 79985304335099507553127683875317177019959423,
> 8596428121188033664754218345562493168782883)
>
(Rhetorical question:) How could my_int_maker(1, 00, 23) return 10023?
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him
cal question:) How could my_int_maker(1, 00, 23) return 10023?
>>
>
> Sorry I haven't been on the list long: does "rhetorical question" mean the
> same thing to the Dutch as to Americans? ;)
>
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Honestly I don't see why the PEP even needs to bring up the matrix multiply
operator. There is no ambiguity, and there is no backwards compatibility
issue.
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ry function
>> is, does it even need to be in the stdlib?
>>
>> I may well be missing something that makes some of these choices
>> necessary or desirable. But otherwise, I think we’d be better off adding a
>> SerialExecutor (that works with the existing Future type as-is
LED, CANCELLED_AND_NOTIFIED, and FINISHED.
>
> Since that would actually be quite useful for debugging purposes (I had to
> access ``future._state`` several times while testing the new
> *cancel_futures*), I'd be willing to work on implementing something like
> this.
>
Excellen
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c). You have started a large number of threads
in a short amount of time, and most of them have generated little of use to
the Python community. Please think about how you can contribute something
more constructive.
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ce
*iterating* over them behaves very differently: for a mapping, iteration
yields keys, while for a sequence, it yields values. A legitimate question
that comes up from time to time is actually how to *distinguish* between
mappings and sequences -- se the other python-ideas thread that I mentioned
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 11:09 AM Serhiy Storchaka
wrote:
> 18.02.20 20:13, Guido van Rossum пише:
> > I am a little confused how you get from "there are extra frames in the
> > traceback" to "modify exec() to run code in another frame".
>
> Sorry for s
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 01:39 Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> It seems to me that this could simply be a package on pypi rather than
> being added to the Python standard library.
>
Sure. But the interesting part is how to design the API. I’ve seen a number
of interesting ideas in this thread.
--
--Guid
+1
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 11:46 Alex Hall wrote:
> Christopher Barker wrote:
> > I think it’s a “Bad Idea” to use an environment variable — who knows what
> > Python script may be running on a given system?
> > But a standard command line argument to the interpreter could be useful.
>
> Can you
luation, the tilde operator gains
> little, at least in terms of providing model-evaluation expressions like
> those in R.
>
> --
> Brendan Barnwell
> "Do not follow where the path may lead. Go, instead, where there is no
> path, and leave a trail."
> --author
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re some kind of translation of
the OP's original example (Lottery ~ Literacy + Wealth + Region) to a
lambda involving those words?
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library does have an
> > extensive and growing list of audit events that are intended to assist
> > with testing, logging and security monitoring.
>
> Thanks, It looks like an audit hook could work.
>
But understand that these are meant for a totally different purpose.
--
ace some but not
>> most uses of none-aware operators, and would be inaccurate even when they
>> can be used, doesn’t seem very promising.
>>
>> All in all, this whole NoneError thing seems like it could be a useful
>> design for a brand-new Python-like language, but I c
I think it’s usually called Orderable. It’s a useful concept in static type
checking too (e.g. mypy), where we’d use it as an upper bound for type
variables, if we had it. I guess to exclude sets you’d have to introduce
TotalOrderable.
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 04:03 Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> I have
On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 10:43 AM Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > I think it’s usually called Orderable. It’s a useful concept in static
> type
> > checking too (e.g. mypy), where we’d use it as an upper bound for type
> > variables, if we had it. I gue
EVERYONE, please don’t follow up on the meta discussion. What’s said is
said. But this type of discussion never leads to anything useful, and often
causes more bad blood. (Chris, next time I think it would be better if you
sat on your hands. And ditto for everyone else who thinks to respond to an
i
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This will only need a PEP if the eventual proposal is controversial. :-)
Someone (Andrew Barnert?) has claimed that another name, like cut or trim,
would be too confusing. I’m not sure I agree. I think strip_prefix is more
confusing, and stripstr or strstrip would unnecessarily cut off the option
gt;>>
>>> > And I'm perfectly okay with bytes() not having those methods. ;-)
>>>
>>> If heavy users of bytes want these methods, they can request them
>>> separately. There's no backwards compatibility requirement for new
>>> string methods to
ing, /, required=False):
> ...
>
Maybe. FWIW, I looked at what a few other languages offer, and found that
in Go, they use Trim(s, chars) for our s.strip(chars), and they have
separate TrimPrefix and TrimSuffix methods. That seems the best solution of
the bunch, so I am now okay wit
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Looks like NotImplemented is widely misunderstood. It should *ONLY* be
returned from binary operator overloads, like __add__.
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 03:49 wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 09:42:15AM -, Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> > > I realize this is probably someth
requires that the
loop control variable retain the last value assigned to it. But in
comprehensions it might work, since the comprehension control variable
lives in an inner scope (at least if it's a simple variable).
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*Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pro
I think we should try to get PEP 604 accepted, with the runtime option (a),
since that's the way we've gone already.
PEP 604 proposes the right syntax, and I think mostly the right semantics
(one could quibble about whether isinstance()/issubclass() ought to accept
unions). Unfortunately it does n
themselves to do their
> magic.
>
It seems a simple enough idea. But unless you are a current contributor to
one of the existing static type checkers I don't think you have the context
to know how disruptive this would be.
> But that is also, unfortunately, pushing more work onto t
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meter?
>> >> The only ways to use this function without counting is remove 1 prefix
>> or remove all.
>>
>
Please, please. removeprefix/removesuffix do not need a count. The use case
is quite different from that of replace. And they should only remove (at
most) one prefix
he same set:
>>> {1}.issubset({1})
True
Or did I miss a wink?
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___
< is the strict subset operator. <= is subset. What more can I say?
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 02:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 09:49:26PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 6:51 PM Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
> >
>
that is what it's
optimized for. Also note that it only applies to use cases where the data
does, indeed, fit in the process's memory somewhat easily -- else you
should probably use a temporary file. If the filesystem were fast enough
and temporary files were easier to use we wouldn&
ome useful places where
we wouldn't even have thought of this idea, and we might see a modest
memory saving for most programs.
Can anyone tear this idea apart?
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requested explicitly
(maybe just with -O).
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uld ensue because
destructors/finalizers are running *earlier* than expected. ;-)
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*Prono
> Of course maybe I’m just failing to imagine good examples.
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nt
> - Desktop GUI and Web Development
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On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:03 Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Of course, that's why I originally suggested that `Dict[...]` should be
> spelled `Dict(...)` instead.
...and we’d be hosed now with no path from Dict to dict.
> --
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we say that e.g. bytes.index(bytearray(...), b)
works, we should document it in the stdlib docs, and other Python
implementations will have to support this too.
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clean than zip(strict=True); an relegating it
to itertools.zip_strict() makes it a lot less attractive. And (b) That rule
is most important when the flag affects the *return type* of a function.
This is because static checkers have a hard time with such APIs.
(Almost-example: open(..., "rb"
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Well it’s always possible that you’ll get an answer saying these should not
be deprecated. How can you be sure they were only kept for Py 2
compatibility?
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 15:15 wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> I wasn't sure whether I was missing something as they were not deprecated
> at the same ti
No, it's because the message speaks English, not Python, and in English we
count starting from one. Users would be very confused you counted from zero
here,
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 02:24 Paul Moore wrote:
> I suspect it's because zip() is actually a class constructor, so
> argument zero is self.
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I’ve never been able to remember whether (f@g)(x) means f(g(x)) or g(f(x)).
That pretty much kills the idea for me.
On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:10 Alex Hall wrote:
> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 6:56 PM David Mertz wrote:
>
>> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:21 AM Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > But h
first in every language that implements a
> composition operator, and in mathematics. While that may be arbitrary,
> it's easy to remember: (f@g)(x) "looks a heck of a lot more like"
> f(g(x)) than g(f(x)) because the former leaves the identifiers in the
> same order
It's nice to fantasize about RAM disks, but the code in zipfile.py is
begging for a simpler solution, just pass in a wrapper that overrides the
write() method (you may have to make a few changes but you can develop and
test this separately from the fix for your bug).
--
--Guido van R
There was also Pyston.
https://blog.pyston.org/
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 11:42 Brett Cannon wrote:
> It was Unladen Swallow that used LLVM, but it was early on in LLVM's JIT
> life and they unfortunately had to spend a bunch of time fixing LLVM which
> ate up the time they had to do the experimen
-ideas) for advice on how to best structure your gradual
migration within asyncio's current limitations, rather than trying to
propose deep changes to the standard library.
Sorry the news is not better, but you will be better off this way.
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--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he
;>> a = (len "abc")
File "", line 1
a = (len "abc")
^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>
I think that strikes a reasonable balance between usability and reduced
detection of common errors.
I could also dial it back a bit, e.g. maybe it&
tart a new thread, so we can lay this
one to rest.)
All in all, it's clear that there's no future for this idea, and I will
happily withdraw it.
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he REPL would seem to have no choice
but to print the returned value -- the REPL has no indication that it came
from `del`.
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being a SyntaxError in statement mode, it
> would simply produce a different ast node:
>
> * `del x` -> `Delete(x)` (as `x := 0` -> SyntaxError)
> * `(del x)` -> `Expr(DeleteExpr(x))` (as `(x := 0)` ->
> `Expr(NamedExpr(...))`)
>
> Eric
>
> On Fri, 12 Jun
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gt; time and energy be better aimed at fixing the standard rather than
> making Python's JSON encoder broken by default?
>
You're kidding, right?
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ng, it was shown that even on the platform with the fastest
> locking primitive (Windows at the time) it slowed down single-threaded
> execution nearly two-fold.
>
> Guido also referenced this write-up from Greg:
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-August/017099.ht
On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 02:53 M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> On 21.06.2020 01:47, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > Hm, I remember Greg's free threading too, but that's not the idea I was
> > trying to recall this time. There really was something about bytecode
> > object
I like where this is going. It would be nice if certain constants could
also be loaded from RO memory.
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 00:16 Inada Naoki wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:00 AM Guido van Rossum
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I believe this was what Greg Stein's ide
lementation currently stops at the first matching block it comes
> to, not the best match out of all blocks. This is meant to make it easier
> to understand the “flow” of the statement, but it might be preferable to
> execute the block associated with the best match, though
Steven just likes an argument. Nobody has ever taken the idea of a standard
for language in comments seriously. It Just doen come up.
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 18:35 Bernardo Sulzbach <
berna...@bernardosulzbach.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 9:43 PM Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>
>> I dislike
Please read PEP 505 before rehashing this old idea.
On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 06:35 Daniel. wrote:
> When I need to traverse nested dicts, is a common pattern to do
>
> somedict.get('foo', {}).get('bar', {})
>
> But there is no such equivalent for arrays, wouldn't be nice if we can
> follow
>
> so
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 21:30 MRAB wrote:
> On 2020-06-30 02:14, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> [snip]
> > Counter-proposal: hex escapes allow optional curly brackets, similar to
> > unicode name escapes. You could even allow spaces within the braces, for
> > grouping:
> >
> > # Existing:
> >
ists/python-ideas.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/BZTYVERLYDWPMW2QKSMDWXRRL3DUBSDC/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
*Pronouns: he/him **(why is
I think you all should get together and come up with a good implementation,
and then petition Raymond Hettinger. Or maybe there is an existing open
source 3rd party project that has code you can copy? I don’t recall if
random has a C accelerator, but if it does, you should come up with C code
as we
Hello Hans,
This list is more for ideas related to Python the language.
For the website, each page on python.org has a link at the bottom to the
tracker where you can submit requests for improvements and PRs for the
website itself.
—Guido
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 04:31 Hans Ginzel wrote:
> >th
I think it’s a reasonable idea and encourage you to start working on a
design for the API and then a PRP. It would help if someone looked into a
prototype implementation as well (once a design has been settled on).
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 03:31 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11
Yes please.
FWIW, IIRC the “bundle values in a single parameter” predates the demise of
__getslice__. It probably was meant for dict keys primarily (no surprise
there). The bundling would have been easier for the C API — __getitem__ is
as old as Python there.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 10:49 Steven
On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 9:11 PM Christopher Barker
wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 1:43 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> Yes please.
>>
>
> Yes to what, exactly?
>
> -CHB
>
> FWIW, IIRC the “bundle values in a single parameter” predates the demise
What purpose do you have in mind for making this distinction? Even if it
could be done easily (which I doubt), why would this be useful?
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 19:01 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The API provided by PEP 445 makes it possible to intercept allocation
> requests through hooks, but it seems
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 03:22 Jonathan Fine wrote:
> This is a continuation of my previous post to this thread.
>
> Python's FOR ... ELSE ... , Raymond Hettinger has told us, has origins in
> some ideas of Don Knuth.
>
That’s news to me (both that it’s due to Knuth and that Raymond said so). I
i
Also, let me be clear that this feature will never be added to the language.
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 07:36 Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 03:22 Jonathan Fine wrote:
>
>> This is a continuation of my previous post to this thread.
>>
>> Python'
wers to 1 & 2--it's not being done because
> people don't find it useful. The answer to 3 is most likely "no" due to the
> costs, but it would be nice if someone could weigh in on this part. Maybe
> there's some workaround.
>
If you were asking me to weigh in *n
t to synchronize interpreter
> states. This design has been done before for C/C++ (
> https://people.cs.umass.edu/~emery/pubs/dthreads-sosp11.pdf), but for
> different reasons.
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:16 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 4:09 PM We
nd
> answer a thousand questions "What's the difference between def and fun?
> Which should I use?", doesn't make life easier for teachers.
>
>
> --
> Steven
> ___
> Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org
>
You have to find a core dev who is willing to act as a Sponsor. I recommend
asking Steven d’Aprano (but I do not know if he’s interested). Until then,
hash out the precise spec for the idea here. Coming up with a solid
motivation is also important.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 01:15 Stefano Borini
wro
I think this cannot just be considered a bug fix, and it seems somewhat
fundamental (catching arbitrary exceptions is controversial), so I
recommend finding a core dev to sponsor a PEP. (Or finding one who thinks
it is obviously a bug and will approve a PR.)
On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 04:43 Dominik V
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