Bonjour Bernard,
On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 12:42:51PM -0700, parisse wrote:
>I'm reading the european grant project description on
>https://github.com/sagemath/grant-europe/ and I have no idea whether
>the software would be free or not. In fact since the project in its
>curre
I'm reading the european grant project description on
https://github.com/sagemath/grant-europe/ and I have no idea whether the
software would be free or not. In fact since the project in its current
state is asking more than half of the money for software engineers mostly
for implementing non m
On Tuesday, September 2, 2014, Nicolas M. Thiery
wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:03:52AM -0700, Bill Hart wrote:
> >To my knowledge, the European Union funding agencies did not have a
> >significant stake in the origin and development of Sage,
>
> Indeed, and this is by design :-)
>
>
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:03:52AM -0700, Bill Hart wrote:
>To my knowledge, the European Union funding agencies did not have a
>significant stake in the origin and development of Sage,
Indeed, and this is by design :-)
Well, at least in my little world. My strategy has always been
bottom
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 05:06:37PM +0530, Nicolas M. Thiery wrote:
> On my side, I am going to coordinate a European grant application
> (submission: January 2015) around the Sage ecosystem (including GAP,
> Pari, ...), with main goal to fund a couple full time devs over the
> next few years:
>
>
On Saturday, 30 August 2014 11:49:10 UTC+2, Viviane Pons wrote:
>
> From what I understand, nobody here is saying what *should* be but more
> how it is. I think the debate on whether people support one way or another
> is mostly irrelevant here, even so, I do understand the frustration and I
>
On Saturday, 30 August 2014 11:52:48 UTC+2, Harald Schilly wrote:
>
> That escalated quickly …
>
> > On Friday, August 29, 2014 12:46:14 PM UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote:
> > Why is this important? Because otherwise you would be taking European
> money and using it to fund a project which originated in
On Saturday, 30 August 2014 10:47:08 UTC+2, wstein wrote:
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Bill Hart > wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, 30 August 2014 00:35:01 UTC+2, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 5:03 AM, Bill Hart
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Friday, 29
That escalated quickly …
> On Friday, August 29, 2014 12:46:14 PM UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote:
> Why is this important? Because otherwise you would be taking European
money and using it to fund a project which originated in the US (I think it
fair to call it a US project).
Remember Nov 23rd, 2009 (
>From what I understand, nobody here is saying what *should* be but more how
it is. I think the debate on whether people support one way or another is
mostly irrelevant here, even so, I do understand the frustration and I do
think myself that all this national stuff is quite stupid.
Anyway, here's
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Bill Hart wrote:
>
>
> On Saturday, 30 August 2014 00:35:01 UTC+2, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 5:03 AM, Bill Hart
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Friday, 29 August 2014 13:17:40 UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote:
>> >>
>> >> First of all, it always sadden
On Saturday, 30 August 2014 00:35:01 UTC+2, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 5:03 AM, Bill Hart > wrote:
> >
> > On Friday, 29 August 2014 13:17:40 UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote:
> >>
> >> First of all, it always saddens me when the ugly head of nationalism
> rears
> >> its h
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Francesco Biscani wrote:
> I don't have any direct experience with EU funding, but I did work at a
> European-level institution (ESA) for a few years and I must say that what
> Bill says rings true to my ears. You have to understand that anything
> "European" is re
I don't have any direct experience with EU funding, but I did work at a
European-level institution (ESA) for a few years and I must say that what
Bill says rings true to my ears. You have to understand that anything
"European" is really undertaken by a patchwork of different nations pulling
towards
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 5:03 AM, Bill Hart wrote:
>
> On Friday, 29 August 2014 13:17:40 UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote:
>>
>> First of all, it always saddens me when the ugly head of nationalism rears
>> its head. I thought the time where we only support German science were
>> over...
+1
> You have
>
> If Singular were not maintained, all those thousands of man-hours of work
> would bitrot and become unavailable to the Open Source community, and it
> would/could not be replaced!
> The most valuable commodity of the Singular project is the existing code,
> and it needs direct and continued
To be fair, in context, you were talking about nationalism and objecting to
me apparently characterising Sage as a US project. The *mathematical*
diversity of the contributors is completely tangential to that argument.
I think I made my argument transparent enough. You aren't going to help
Euro
On Friday, August 29, 2014 1:03:06 PM UTC+1, Bill Hart wrote:
>
> What sets Sage apart from GAP/Singular (and, I dare say: Flint) is the
>> scale and the diversity of its contributors.
>>
>
> No, what sets it apart is the number of contributors. Flint has had
> contributors from all over the wor
And eclib. Sorry, but there are lots of these!
On Friday, 29 August 2014 16:52:04 UTC+2, Bill Hart wrote:
>
> Someone has just reminded me that mpfr and mpc are European projects.
>
> I mainly mentioned Singular, Gap and Pari because they aim to be CAS's of
> sorts, not just libraries.
>
> It goe
Someone has just reminded me that mpfr and mpc are European projects.
I mainly mentioned Singular, Gap and Pari because they aim to be CAS's of
sorts, not just libraries.
It goes without saying that there are lots of opportunities for
collaboration here in Europe between groups that are already
On Friday, 29 August 2014 15:12:05 UTC+2, Jakob Kroeker wrote:
>
> Bill Hart::
>> ... There is a lack of documentation on what algorithms are implemented,
>> what their complexities are, or references. Some projects are not
>> threadsafe. Testing is lacking and quite a bit of stuff just doesn't
>
> Bill Hart::
> ... There is a lack of documentation on what algorithms are implemented,
> what their complexities are, or references. Some projects are not
> threadsafe. Testing is lacking and quite a bit of stuff just doesn't work
> and never did. And there is a general lack of credit given
One other important point when interpreting my interjection (which again I
stress is my own personal opinion), is that when mounting a campaign for a
large grant, here in Europe or elsewhere, one must very clearly communicate
what *need* is being addressed. If there isn't a clear need, you won't
On Friday, 29 August 2014 13:17:40 UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote:
>
> First of all, it always saddens me when the ugly head of nationalism rears
> its head. I thought the time where we only support German science were
> over...
>
You have misunderstood. When applying for German funding, the rules
On 29 August 2014 12:43, William A Stein wrote:
>
>
> On Friday, August 29, 2014, Volker Braun wrote:
>
>> First of all, it always saddens me when the ugly head of nationalism
>> rears its head. I thought the time where we only support German science
>> were over...
>>
>> What sets Sage apart fr
On Friday, August 29, 2014, Volker Braun wrote:
> First of all, it always saddens me when the ugly head of nationalism rears
> its head. I thought the time where we only support German science were
> over...
>
> What sets Sage apart from GAP/Singular (and, I dare say: Flint) is the
> scale and th
First of all, it always saddens me when the ugly head of nationalism rears
its head. I thought the time where we only support German science were
over...
What sets Sage apart from GAP/Singular (and, I dare say: Flint) is the
scale and the diversity of its contributors. Saying that it is a US (o
Nicolas,
I wish you the best with a European grant based on Sage. Don't forget
Singular! (Flint and MPIR are also European, but these might be too low
level for your interests, I don't know.)
The key to success with these European grants, I have been led to believe
(by people who have gotten t
I really agree with your comments. And in terms of "niche", I would add
that Sage is actually becoming one for combinatorics. I don't say that
everyone in combinatorics is using Sage but I know lots of people
(including me) for whom it would be quite complicated to move to another
language. And we
Hi!
For whatever two cents it's worth, here is my modest analysis of the
situation and how I'll try to contribute to tackle this.
I am using the same metric as William: is Sage becoming a viable
alternative to XXX. However, by this, I don't mean that it should
completely take over the nic
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 05:27:21AM -0700, kcrisman wrote:
> And the research algebra community is really not THAT big -
> certainly not of the people who are qualified, have time to work
> on code, and desire to.
The combinatorics community is not that big either. And there are
strong libraries in
On Wednesday, August 27, 2014 1:27:21 PM UTC+1, kcrisman wrote:
>
> > Bingo, please clarify. To me, "viable alternative" means just that.
>> > Frankly, why did you include Matlab if you care about research
>> > mathematicians?
>>
>> Dima's answered this well.
>>
>>
> Quoting on this thread:
The commenters outside sage-* are all blind. The mathematicians, if they can
program, know nothing about Open Source and highly distributed development. The
developers know nothing about what drives the choices in Sage. Students and
enthusiasts grapple with both algebra and Python in Sage. And p
Thanks for posting this. That said the big "SAGE must choose" question
below doesn't actually make any sense given how sage is developed...
On Wednesday, August 27, 2014, kcrisman wrote:
> Interesting comment on the post on Facebook. Note the comment about
> payment as well.
> +++
> In my univ
Hi everyone,
I have been following part of this conversation and I think there is one
aspect here that most of you are missing. Sage does not chose... Sage is
not a mess on purpose, but it is developed by a big number of people and
people develop what they need. So if all developers are researcher
Interesting comment on the post on Facebook. Note the comment about
payment as well.
+++
In my university, we have been using a sagenb server for three years. We
use it in Calculus/Algebra courses for mathematicians, electrical
ingenieers, agricultural ingenieers, etc. We really use a few basic
>
> > Bingo, please clarify. To me, "viable alternative" means just that.
> > Frankly, why did you include Matlab if you care about research
> > mathematicians?
>
> Dima's answered this well.
>
>
Quoting on this thread:
> Hey, a large proportion of applied maths (numerical analysis,
optimisa
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 8:51 PM, kcrisman wrote:
>> Two remarks:
>>
>> 1. It makes no sense for this post to go to the sage-release mailing
>> list. It should go to sage-flame (or maybe sage-devel). It
>
>
>
> Here is a sage-devel reason.
OK, thread moved to sage-devel.
>> 2. > I can cite seve
> But please don't change the mission statement! Your own personal one can
> still be the research piece, that is cool. But I think Sage has
experienced
> a lot of the success it has precisely because you didn't see a problem
with
> sharing with a broader vision than just the research community.
>
> Two remarks:
>
> 1. It makes no sense for this post to go to the sage-release mailing
> list. It should go to sage-flame (or maybe sage-devel). It
>
Here is a sage-devel reason.
>
> 2. > I can cite several reasons for the SAGE has failed and all the
> reasons can still be corrected:
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