awareness
most effectively. But why would you think it would vanish from mine
too? Sorry to be the bearer of such really lousy news, but what
happens doesn't change just because you want it to, it's all still
there, just as it was, twice, and it says now just what it said when
I wrote i
Hi Keith, Andres and Marilyn,
I have tried to deal with the argument concerning plants and pain but I
obviously haven't made myself clearly understood?
Below please find a more comprehensive reply which comes from the book
ANIMAL LIBERATION by Professor Peter Singer.
SP
Hi Keith,
Where is all this anger and aggression coming from? I think you let
yourself down when you descend to comments like this:
>Hi Dermot
>
>That's all?? Umph. Hardly worth the effort.
>
>
>What other kind have there been Dermot? What kind of questions won't
>you try to respond to?
>
>And
On 11/30/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greetings Ken
>
> That was a real pleasure to read, thankyou.
You're quite welcome.
> Your "food shed", that's great! Footprints and food sheds.
I wish I had coined the term but, my best buddy uses the phrase
regularly and I'm pretty sure t
Hi Dermot
That's all?? Umph. Hardly worth the effort.
>Hi Keith,
>Thanks for the reply. I'm puzzled by:
>
> >>My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that we should
> >>because it is unethical to kill sentient creatures for no good reason.
> >>ANIMALS HAVE RIGHTS. Just because they are dumb
Dermot posted:
[snip]
>
> >It's unethical to kill ANYTHING for no good reason, unethical and not
> >sustainable.
[snip]
This seems to be true. all the documentaries and history ive come across
about the Native American cultures allow for taking a non-human life for
food reasons as long as the 'Mo
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the reply. I'm puzzled by:
>
>
>>My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that we should
>>because it is unethical to kill sentient creatures for no good reason.
>>ANIMALS HAVE RIGHTS. Just because they are dumb doesn't mean we can
>>deprive them of a happy existance be
>On 11/30/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Greetings Ken
> >
> > That was a real pleasure to read, thankyou.
>
>You're quite welcome.
>
> > Your "food shed", that's great! Footprints and food sheds.
>
>I wish I had coined the term but, my best buddy uses the phrase
>regularly and I'
On 11/30/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greetings Ken
>
> That was a real pleasure to read, thankyou.
You're quite welcome.
> Your "food shed", that's great! Footprints and food sheds.
I wish I had coined the term but, my best buddy uses the phrase
regularly and I'm pretty sure t
benefit of your experience and knowledge. I
also applaud your amazing dexerity. Milking compost worms is really
difficult. :->
Tom
From: Keith Addison
[
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:59:13 -0300
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on
Hello Dermot,
I suppose a fair test, not a good one, would be how long has the organic trust farms been operating and can they still grow most all crop types with normal yields. If your have farms operating 100 years or so and can still grow most crops with noirmal yields I say you were susta
difficult. :->
Tom
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:59:13 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming>Quick question. Can the animals just be earthworms or are rumanants required
Hello Dermot
>Hi Keith,
>
>I'd like to address some of the points you raised in your reply to me on
>Oct 2nd.
>
>Before we start it may be useful to stress the views we probably have in
>common and hopefully that the rest of the list have in common as well.
>
>1. Modern intensive farming is unsust
Darn. I thought I really had something going with that cute lil
sweetpea plant.
dermot wrote:
>Hi Marilyn,
>
>The book you mention, "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Thomkins and
>Christopher Bird, was a bestseller over 20 years ago. It made all sorts
>of outlandish claims which were based o
Hi Keith,
I'd like to address some of the points you raised in your reply to me on
Oct 2nd.
Before we start it may be useful to stress the views we probably have in
common and hopefully that the rest of the list have in common as well.
1. Modern intensive farming is unsustainable and is unnece
Hi Marilyn,
The book you mention, "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Thomkins and
Christopher Bird, was a bestseller over 20 years ago. It made all sorts
of outlandish claims which were based on the "scientific" work of a
"Dr." Cleve Backster. It turns out that Backster was not in fact a
scienti
stainablelists.org
>Sent: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:39:00 -0300
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
>
>Greetings Ken
>
>That was a real pleasure to read, thankyou.
>
>Your "food shed", that's great! Footprints and food sheds.
>
>
; required?
>
> Tom Irwin
>
>
> From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:39:00 -0300
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
>
> Greetings Ken
>
> That was a
Quick question. Can the animals just be earthworms or are rumanants required?
Tom Irwin
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:39:00 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farmingGreetings KenThat wa
Greetings Ken
That was a real pleasure to read, thankyou.
Your "food shed", that's great! Footprints and food sheds.
>On 11/28/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >Not all vegetarians avoid meat because of animal rights issues.
> >
> > Why do they avoid it then?
> >
> > Best
> >
>
On 11/28/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Not all vegetarians avoid meat because of animal rights issues.
>
> Why do they avoid it then?
>
> Best
>
> Keith
Are you itchin' for a fight? ;^) Well, I trust that based on our long
discussion a few months ago, that you know why I avoide
Two more reasons for being vegetarian:
Comparing factory farmed meat with factory farmed vegetables, the meat
consumes much more fossil fuel Btu's, and fossil water from aquifers,
per calorie of food.
Health effects of eating too much red meat. I'm not vegetarian, but I
don't eat a big chunk of
On 11/28/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.>Not all vegetarians avoid meat because of animal rights issues.Why do they avoid it then?BestKeith
I can't really say much about the main topic of the discussion, but I can offer an alternative reason for vegetarianism.
My grandmother on my
So they eat vegetables because cabbages don't scream and try to run
away when you kill them? That's probably what it often boils down to,
but not always.
cabbages? boil down to? Ouch.
Keith Addison wrote:
>>On 11/27/05, dermot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This is a common argume
>On 11/27/05, dermot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This is a common argument put forward against vegetarianism. This
> > argument says that if it is shown sometime in the future that plants
> > feel pain then vegetarians will have to give up eating plants.
So they eat vegetables because cabbages
Bring out the Attack Turnip.
bob allen wrote:
>a humorous rejoinder to " are you a vegetarian because you like animals?" no,
>it's 'cause I hate
>vegetables- I want to jerk them out of the ground, and tear them up and boil
>them... : )
>
>Ken Dunn wrote:
>
>
>>On 11/27/05, dermot <[EMAIL PRO
a humorous rejoinder to " are you a vegetarian because you like animals?" no,
it's 'cause I hate
vegetables- I want to jerk them out of the ground, and tear them up and boil
them... : )
Ken Dunn wrote:
> On 11/27/05, dermot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>This is a common argument put forward a
On 11/27/05, dermot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a common argument put forward against vegetarianism. This
> argument says that if it is shown sometime in the future that plants
> feel pain then vegetarians will have to give up eating plants.
Not all vegetarians avoid meat because of anima
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:
Hi Andres,
You raised an interesting point below (on 3rd Oct, sorry for late
reply)about my assertion that there is currently no reliable
evidence to suggest that plants feel pain.
"I say wait a while, we'll find they do. Science advances slowly,
with many
Hi Andres,
You raised an interesting point below (on 3rd Oct, sorry for late reply)
about my assertion that there is currently no reliable evidence to
suggest that plants feel pain.
"I say wait a while, we'll find they do. Science advances slowly, with
many stumbles along the road, and many
Andres Yver wrote:
>Hello Dermot,
>
>Thanks for the kind and thoughtful reply. I have been a bit flippant in
>my response to you, because i have judged too hastily, as i now see by
>your words. I shall endeavor to answer your questions as honestly as
>possible.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Hi Andre,
T
Hello Andres
Sorry for the delayed response.
>Hello Keith,
>
>On Friday, September 30, 2005, at 04:48 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >> Heh! I Have only met one person that has ever defended chickens.
> >
> > :-) You just met another one.
>
>As in, not to be killed chickens.
:-) I'm in no position
Hello Keith, Dermot,
On Sunday, October 2, 2005, at 06:11 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
> Hello Dermot
>>
>> for animal manure. I think they are doing that very successfully
>> in Shanghai at the moment.
>
> They were doing it very successfully in Shanghai a hundred years ago,
> not so sure about n
Hello Dermot,
Thanks for the kind and thoughtful reply. I have been a bit flippant in
my response to you, because i have judged too hastily, as i now see by
your words. I shall endeavor to answer your questions as honestly as
possible.
On Sunday, October 2, 2005, at 03:51 PM, dermot wrote:
>
Hello Dermot
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >Hello Dermot
> >
> >
> >
> >>Many very extensive studies have been done on various vegetarian groups
> >>such as Seven Day Adventists and some vegetarians claim that as these
> >>people are healthier than average that it must be due to their
> >>vegetarian d
Hello again Dermot
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >Hi Andres. Dermot
> >
> >>Hi Dermot,
> >>
> >>On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>It may be the case that some people cannot tolerate a vegetarian diet.
> >>>I
> >>>don't know. My point is that IF we can to
Keith Addison wrote:
>Hi Andres. Dermot
>
>
>
>>Hi Dermot,
>>
>>On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>It may be the case that some people cannot tolerate a vegetarian diet.
>>>I
>>>don't know. My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that we
>>>
Andres Yver wrote:
>Hi Dermot,
>
>On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>It may be the case that some people cannot tolerate a vegetarian diet.
>>I
>>don't know. My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that we
>>should
>>because it is unethical to kill
Keith Addison wrote:
>Hello Dermot
>
>
>
>
>
>>Many very extensive studies have been done on various vegetarian groups
>>such as Seven Day Adventists and some vegetarians claim that as these
>>people are healthier than average that it must be due to their
>>vegetarian diet. I don't subscribe to
Hello Keith,
On Friday, September 30, 2005, at 04:48 PM, Keith Addison wrote:
>> Heh! I Have only met one person that has ever defended chickens.
>
> :-) You just met another one.
As in, not to be killed chickens.
>
>> Most
>> people have absolutely no qualms about killing chicken. I used to
>>
> > And no, there is no intention in this post to troll for a debate on
> > evolution vs. intelligent design.<
>
>If evolution and intelligent design work
:-) You have to choose Chris, one or the other, this universe ain't
big enough for the both of them.
>how come they produced Homo
>Sapiens.
> And no, there is no intention in this post to troll for a debate on
> evolution vs. intelligent design.<
If evolution and intelligent design work how come they produced Homo
Sapiens. Chris
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
ht
hings are made by monkeys, real dumb ones.)
Best
Keith
>- Original Message -
>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 13:48
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
>
>
> >
what viedo format is that in?
It will not open for me,
- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 13:48
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
>
> It's hard to find
Yes, I can say I've looked them in the eye. Relish it? No. That was
facetious. I said earlier I've pretty much given up eating most meat.
The chickens I killed was because I wanted to eat them, and in those
cases the chicken keepers thought it was fair for me to do my share. It
was a lot of
Great. Now I suppose everyone is going to start piling on me just
because of that little "youthful indescretion" at University with The
Young Cannibals Association.
Keith Addison wrote:
>Hi Andres. Dermot
>
>
>
>>Hi Dermot,
>>
>>On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote:
>>
>Hi Mike,
>On Friday, September 30, 2005, at 02:53 PM, Mike Weaver wrote:
>
> > Chickens. I can kill chickens. Bring 'em on.
>
>Heh! I Have only met one person that has ever defended chickens.
:-) You just met another one.
>Most
>people have absolutely no qualms about killing chicken. I used to
Hi Andres. Dermot
>Hi Dermot,
>
>On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > It may be the case that some people cannot tolerate a vegetarian diet.
> > I
> > don't know. My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that we
> > should
> > because it is unethical to k
>Chickens. I can kill chickens. Bring 'em on.
I'm wondering whether you ever looked one in the eye. Yes? How can
you relish killing anything that'll look you in the eye?
Best
Keith
>Andres Yver wrote:
>
> >Hi Dermot,
> >
> >On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote:
> >
> >
Hi Mike,
On Friday, September 30, 2005, at 02:53 PM, Mike Weaver wrote:
> Chickens. I can kill chickens. Bring 'em on.
Heh! I Have only met one person that has ever defended chickens. Most
people have absolutely no qualms about killing chicken. I used to
dislike them because they were scary t
Chickens. I can kill chickens. Bring 'em on.
Andres Yver wrote:
>Hi Dermot,
>
>On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>It may be the case that some people cannot tolerate a vegetarian diet.
>>I
>>don't know. My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that
Hi Dermot,
On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 05:56 PM, dermot wrote:
>
>
> It may be the case that some people cannot tolerate a vegetarian diet.
> I
> don't know. My point is that IF we can tolerate this diet that we
> should
> because it is unethical to kill sentient creatures for no good
Hello Dermot
>Many very extensive studies have been done on various vegetarian groups
>such as Seven Day Adventists and some vegetarians claim that as these
>people are healthier than average that it must be due to their
>vegetarian diet. I don't subscribe to this view because these people
>don'
Garth & Kim Travis wrote:
>Greetings,
>I too kill my own animals, we put their names on the package of meat and
>remember them when we eat them, giving thanks for their life
>energies. Even the Dali Lama is only vegetarian half the time, as the
>stress of traveling weakens him too much on a st
Hello Doug,
On 9/29/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Andres, it might be a good idea to inspect the livers of the rabbits youslaughter.Comfrey is supposed to contain "pyrolizidine (spelling?) alkaloids"
which are said to be toxic to human livers. I don't know whether thealkaloids
Andres, it might be a good idea to inspect the livers of the rabbits you
slaughter.
Comfrey is supposed to contain "pyrolizidine (spelling?) alkaloids"
which are said to be toxic to human livers. I don't know whether the
alkaloids are broken down or whether it would be possible to ingest them
from
Hi Kim,
A Tibetan Rinpoche visiting Synergia Ranch in Santa Fe once, was told
of a gopher infestation in the fruit orchard, and asked something about
the morals of killing, since noisemakers had not worked.
His reply: Rodent infestations must be dealt with.
It was pretty clear he had no qualms abo
Greetings,
I too kill my own animals, we put their names on the package of meat and
remember them when we eat them, giving thanks for their life
energies. Even the Dali Lama is only vegetarian half the time, as the
stress of traveling weakens him too much on a strict vegetarian diet. Many
of
Andres Yver wrote:
>Perhaps the sockeye died after spawning? They do that.
They don't spawn in the deep part of the river. They don't spawn in
someone's man made cleaning basin. By the time they spawn, salmon are
usually fairly beat up and starting to decay from the head back.
(I've
Hi Andres,
Snip
I've lived here since 1998. I've seen one fairly bad drought. The rest of the time the moisture is pretty much what I would expect. I've giving some thought about putting a cistern in to have a couple of months worth of water in storage. The groundwater here is real good onc
Hello Robert,
On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 05:28 PM, robert luis rabello wrote:
> Andres Yver wrote:
>
>
>> I feel that if i'm to eat meat, i should kill the animal myself. Keeps
>> everything in perspective.
>
> I do this with fish. Generally I don't eat meat, but once a year I
> go
Hi Tom,
On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 02:53 PM, Tom Irwin wrote:
> Hi Andres,
>
> Castor beans grow wild here in Uruguay as well. I have some deep
> seated childhood memories of castor oil as an emetic. Just the smell
> makes me gag. I'll use it with a mask if I can find no other source
Andres Yver wrote:
> I feel that if i'm to eat meat, i should kill the animal myself. Keeps
> everything in perspective.
I do this with fish. Generally I don't eat meat, but once a year I
go to the river with my boys. We pull salmon out of the water, I
thank God for protecting each
Hi Zeke,
On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 03:13 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> Why eat animals then? Eating meat is a rather inefficient method of
> converting sunlight into food anyway. In a sustainble farm they are
> necessary for fertilizer, and to convert low grade food stocks not
> edible by
On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 03:32 PM, Mike Weaver wrote:
> I can't kill anything anymore, except chickens. I hate chickens. But I
> live live in the 'burbs so there are no chickens anyhow. My dad tells
> stories of his chilhood in Arkansas and pig killing, which they did
> from
> Novembe
John,
Thank you for the information and link...what a super resource. Best to all.
DB
- Original Message -
From: "John Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
&g
David M. Brockes wrote:
> I keep getting people asking about the Energy required to produce
> Bio-Diesel, (or biofuel, Ethanol or Bio-Diesel); mainly thinking that it
> takes more energy to produce them than what you get in return or what it
> takes to make it.
> I know that with Ethanol the num
: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:54 AMTo:
Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on
oil seed crops and ley farming
Hi Andres,
Castor beans grow wild here in Uruguay as well. I have some deep seated
childhood memories of castor oil as an emetic. Just the smell
jection with
> potassium chloride solution. Pigs and humans have lots of
> similarities. It's worth a question to the local vet.
>
> Tom Irwin
>
>
> --------
> *From:* Andres Yver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTEC
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the information.
Tom Irwin
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:26:58 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farmingsnip___
Biofue
> I'm a bit squimish in killing animals, too. I was raised as a city
> boy. I was giving thought to lethal injection with potassium chloride
> solution. Pigs and humans have lots of similarities. It's worth a question
> to the local vet.
Why eat animals then? Eating meat is a rather inefficient m
Hi Andres,
Castor beans grow wild here in Uruguay as well. I have some deep seated childhood memories of castor oil as an emetic. Just the smell makes me gag. I'll use it with a mask if I can find no other source but it is kind of a last resort material for me. The yields are good though and
Hello Tom,
>> Hi Keith and all,
>>
>> You mentioned in a previous thread that you liked castor beans as an
>> oil seed crop.
You're in Uruguay, right? In Chile, castor bean is a serious weed. It
grows extremely fast, reaching over two meters height and diameter
within 8 months. If you have mois
Hi Tom
>Hi Keith and all,
>
>You mentioned in a previous thread that you liked castor beans as an
>oil seed crop.
I said it has about the highest lubrication and it's an interesting
biofuels crop. Interesting in India I think, and in Brazil.
>That makes some sense given yields and iodine numbe
umber of plantations grown in
Samoa in the early 1900's
-Original
Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Tom
IrwinSent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:44 AMTo:
Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] New question on oil
seed cro
Hi Keith and all,
You mentioned in a previous thread that you liked castor beans as an oil seed crop. That makes some sense given yields and iodine numbers but if one is attempting an animal/oil seed mix then castor beans aren't edible are they? Perhaps I read something wrong on JTF. I was pl
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