On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 09:55:11 +0900
Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> > do you mean, 1) it is impossible to invent a tag for it which better
> > describes its nature, or 2) that nobody has yet invented and
> > documented such a tag?
> >
>
> 1) is probably not possible
> 2) would be good
> I’m just not
Thanks, Michal. Following that link led me to:
shop=butcher + butcher=pork
which specifically mentions charcuterie. Presumably covers this too.
Best,
John
On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:18 AM Michal Fabík wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 10:03 PM Sergio Manzi wrote:
> > I have the same problem
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 17:06, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 5. Dec 2018, at 22:02, Sergio Manzi wrote:
> >
> > I have the same problem for some shop categories which are not part of
> the US/UK tradition: an Italian "salumeria" [1] is in no way similar to a
> US
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 10:03 PM Sergio Manzi wrote:
> I have the same problem for some shop categories which are not part of the
> US/UK tradition: an Italian "salumeria" [1] is in no way similar to a US
> "deli" shop...
Hi, the wiki specifically mentions this and suggests a different way
of
sent from a phone
> On 5. Dec 2018, at 22:02, Sergio Manzi wrote:
>
> I have the same problem for some shop categories which are not part of the
> US/UK tradition: an Italian "salumeria" [1] is in no way similar to a US
> "deli" shop...
indeed there could be room to add a category or
Joseph, I take note of your opinion (/but I beg to differ as I was thinking in
a general/theoretical way and not specifically to the example brought on by
Eugene/).
Just let me clarify that in my examples the English tag were always present
(/there were always water=pond/): *that was on
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 10:57, Joseph Eisenberg
wrote:
>
> do you mean, 1) it is impossible to invent a tag for it which better
>> describes its nature, or 2) that nobody has yet invented and documented
>> such a tag?
>>
>
> 1) is probably not possible
> 2) would be good
> I’m just not able to
It’s difficult enough that Indonesians have to understand English to use
OpenStreetMap effectively, or at least have to find English-based tags that
match Indonesian words. But if we encourage inventing tagging things in
hundreds of languages it will become even more difficult to use this global
Re: “once someone told me that Eskimo people have dozens of different names
for "snow"”
It’s a bit complex, starting with defining “Eskimo”:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow
Many Trans-New-Guinean languages here will use only one word for all water
features, eg river, lake,
Naaahhh... just "complex/" /or/"/complicated" (/I don't know which one is
better in English/)... :-)
On 2018-12-06 00:48, Paul Allen wrote:
> The real world is messy.
>
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
___
Tagging mailing
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 11:43 PM Sergio Manzi wrote:
> so maybe there could be two things that for me and you are both a "pond",
> but for a Russian are two different things that must be distinguished...
>
It's entirely possible. I believe that Russian uses a single word for both
apes and
/air == water/ is one of those things that makes me really smile and think on
how wonderfully diverse we are...
but your examples are different to what I thought. In my examples it would be:
natural:ID=air
water:ID=danau
which I understand it would be overkill and probably better
Assuming that “озеро” is a more or less direct translation of “lake”, then
the Russian use is going to have to search for “water=lake”, though I hope
someone will make a translation interface for Overpass Turbo that will
understand natural language queries.
You wouldn’t suggest that I add tags
Probably should be
name=Байкал
name:en=Lake Baikal
Etc.
But I don’t see a need to translate water=lake into Russian; lest we have
to do this for every tag in every language. But I believe the Editor
applications, like JOSM and ID, will provide a Russian translation for
mappers.
Thu, Dec 6,
Re:
> “when you search for "water=lake" tag you don't necesseraly get "озеро"
(which is usually tranlated from Russian as "lake").
> So unless you have "озеро" in the name tag you will never find all these
objects which are called "озеро" in Russian.
Ok, so you’ve noticed that many lakes are
I understand the name of Lake Baikal in Russian is "Байкал", without the
"озерo" attribute, but you want to be able to search for озеро as well: would
the following be acceptable/valid?
water=lake
water:RU=озеро
name=Lake Baikal
name:RU=Байкал
name:FR=Lac Baïkal
On
Le 05. 12. 18 à 23:41, Eugene Podshivalov a écrit :
> I did see that in France they put their local school categories into
> "school:FR" tag but do you think this approach can be propogated for all
> other categories?
school:FR is a visible sign of a failure of the global proposal for
school
Marc and OSMDoudou,
I did see that in France they put their local school categories into
"school:FR" tag but do you think this approach can be propogated for all
other categories?
E.g. in Russian there are different types of man-made small bodies of
water. Will it work to denote them as
you're probably right, but it would nonetheless be the "/child of a lesser
God/" compared to a "deli" in New York, USA...
On 2018-12-05 22:51, Dave F wrote:
> Going off topic, but you /can/ tag it as "shop=salumeria", it will still be
> searchable & will be displayed on the standard map with
Going off topic, but you /can/ tag it as "shop=salumeria", it will still
be searchable & will be displayed on the standard map with its name & a dot.
DaveF
On 05/12/2018 21:26, Sergio Manzi wrote:
But maybe I've misunderstood your question: if you where asking how I
would like to tag a
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 04:04, Eugene Podshivalov wrote:
> if you cannot perform such simple tasks with it like getting a list of for
> example lakes within a specific country? You search for water=lake but you
> get results which differ a lot from what is locally called a "lake".
>
When you say
Le 05. 12. 18 à 20:20, Eugene Podshivalov a écrit :
> Marc,
>
> the "lake of the 4 cantons" in Switzerland is called the "lake of
> the 4 cantons". If you ask someone where "of the 4 cantons" are
> located,
> he don't understand what you're talking about because that not its
>
... or maybe a better solution, if we would like the kind of shop to be
comprhensible to people of different culture, then I would establish a
namespace for food shops and then specify the (/locally relevant/) kind of
shop, like eg. shop:food=salumeria.
On 2018-12-05 22:26, Sergio Manzi wrote:
There is no way I can think of: for lack of better tagging some very different
shop categories (/very different in our culture..//./), like the aforementioned
"salumeria", "rosticeria", "polleria", the generic "alimentari", and many
others, have all been tagged as "shop=deli", so we have "/lost
So, are you then asking how to find this school or any other, without searching
through the name tag ?
Then, search for elements tagged with amenity=school.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=school
And if you want to search elementary schools, search for school=* or
Sergio,
>
> I don't think one should try to frame what is a local French reality, an
> "École
> primaire", into an US or UK based context
The is no need to do it. But there should be some generally recognized
concept for doing it locally for local context.
What is your solution for denoting
P.S.: ... but if I want my /salumeria /to show up on the map, I *have to* "/lie
for the rendering/" and tag it as a shop=deli: but'I'm not happy at all...
On 2018-12-05 22:02, Sergio Manzi wrote:
>
> Once again, reality is complex and multifaced: I don't think one should try
> to frame what is
Once again, reality is complex and multifaced: I don't think one should try to
frame what is a local French reality, an "École primaire", into an US or UK
based context: let the French decide...
I have the same problem for some shop categories which are not part of the
US/UK tradition: an
It looks like I've directed you a bit off the initial topic to the
definition of proper name.
Let us look at it from the other side. Assume we all agree that "École
primaire des Quatre Fils" is the proper name.
Is there some common approach for denoting locally recognized categories
which differ
> If I live next to a place called 'Hudson Bay' then I put name='Hudson
Bay' even if some may argue it may not be a Bay.
We can link most of the objects to the Wikidata
https://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/details.php?place_id=1282777 ->
wikidata=Q3040 ->
OSMDoudou,
> Do you mean "École primaire des Quatre Fils" doesn't have a proper name ?
> What would be a better name ?
I would say that the category is "École primaire" and the proper name is
"des Quatre Fils" but the the commonly used phrase is all together.
The question was about some general
Marc,
>
> the "lake of the 4 cantons" in Switzerland is called the "lake of
> the 4 cantons". If you ask someone where "of the 4 cantons" are located,
> he don't understand what you're talking about because that not its name.
Would you be understoon if you ask someone "where is 'The 4 cantons""?
I don't see as many issues in your exemple... If École or Musée is part of the name, I don't see why we shall invent a truncated name. It's not because the type is part of the name that we shall remove it.Let's take a more famous example: 'Arc de Triomphe' is the name of a landmark in Paris but
> Let's take at look at this spot in the centre of Paris
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.86138/2.36028
> You can see category names displayed everywhere there, e.g. musium, hotel,
> school (in French).
> As a result when you query OSM database for some category items you have to
>
Le 05. 12. 18 à 19:36, Eugene Podshivalov a écrit :
> The name tag is abused very often and systematically.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.86138/2.36028
just because a hotel's name contains the word hotel does not necessarily
mean it is a false name. Some names are "hotêl abc" and
I have just posted another revised version of my proposal on mapping
disputed boundaries.
It greatly simplifies the tagging and relation structure.
Thanks to everyone who gave public and private feedback. I've archived some
of the comments that are no longer applicable.
The proposal is here:
Martin,
> this is already the case. At least it should be like this, if you see
> places where the name tag is abused for descriptions you should fix it. I
> admit, it is not always possible to clearly tell which is the correct name,
> for some kind of things, not even in the real world.
> At
François,
>
> This is nevertheless not related to the geospacial nor relational database
> type but it's localisation issues.
On one hand you are right, on the other hand how can you call OSM a
database if you cannot perform such simple tasks with it like getting a
list of for example lakes
Thanks Eugene,
That's a good example and I agree with you.
This is nevertheless not related to the geospacial nor relational database
type but it's localisation issues.
Then I'm ok with you regarding name tags, it's hard to maintain at world
scale and is often cluttered with specific local terms
Hi François,
I guess you come from France, so let's me try to get some example
applicable to your location.
I do not know much about edicuation system in France but found out from
wiki that your school system consists of "ecole maternelle", "ecole
elementaire", "college" and "lycee".
How do you
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 16:50 Uhr schrieb Eugene Podshivalov <
yauge...@gmail.com>:
> I invision the following solution here.
>
> * First of all, the "name" tag should containt proper name only.
>
this is already the case. At least it should be like this, if you see
places where the name tag is
Hi Eugene,
I don't get the link between geospatial db or not and the difficulties
regarding the local side of tagging.
The same issues can raise on geospatial db as well don't you ?
All the best
François
Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 à 16:50, Eugene Podshivalov a
écrit :
> This email is a forward
This email is a forward message of this forum topic
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=64704
I guess this topic has been raised may times already but let me add to it.
Right now OSM is a collection of dots and lines with some generic tags for
rendering them on a map. They do compile
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 14:32 Uhr schrieb Joseph Eisenberg <
joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>:
> Does anyone have a specific example of a place that should be tagged
> tourism=attraction but which cannot also be tagged with another feature?
do you mean, it is impossible to invent a tag for it which
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 14:48 Uhr schrieb Philip Barnes <
p...@trigpoint.me.uk>:
> Just tried in iD, landuse is pre-programmed, not leisure.
>
that doesn't mean much, as iD developers, at least in the past, ignored the
comunity decisions in more than one instance. It could be an indice to look
Just tried in iD, landuse is pre-programmed, not leisure.
Phil (trigpoint)
On 5 December 2018 13:31:15 GMT, Dave F wrote:
>Last time I looked it was a preprogrammed option in all the 3 main
>editors.
>
>On 05/12/2018 13:28, Philip Barnes wrote:
>> We normally use landuse=recreation_ground,
Does anyone have a specific example of a place that should be tagged
tourism=attraction but which cannot also be tagged with another feature?
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 9:55 PM Daniel Koć wrote:
> W dniu 05.12.2018 o 11:40, Christoph Hormann pisze:
> > It would certainly be good to stop rendering it
Last time I looked it was a preprogrammed option in all the 3 main editors.
On 05/12/2018 13:28, Philip Barnes wrote:
We normally use landuse=recreation_ground, have never come across the
leisure version.
Phil (trigpoint)
On 5 December 2018 12:24:05 GMT, Dave F
wrote:
Hi
It
We normally use landuse=recreation_ground, have never come across the leisure
version.
Phil (trigpoint)
On 5 December 2018 12:24:05 GMT, Dave F wrote:
>Hi
>
>It appears there's an attempt to discourage/deprecate
>leisure=recreation_ground.
>
W dniu 05.12.2018 o 11:40, Christoph Hormann pisze:
> It would certainly be good to stop rendering it to incentivize mappers
> to choose more meaningful tags instead but it also should be said that
> this is essentially a case of 'damage done' - the tag is already
> meaningless, stopping to
I'm not sure how to proceed now. Should I create a proposal for this?
Am Samstag, 1. Dezember 2018, 12:16:42 MEZ hat bkil
Folgendes geschrieben:
You have the choice to disagree with micromapping and ignore it. Many such
decisions are made on a local level, for example when executing
Hi
It appears there's an attempt to discourage/deprecate
leisure=recreation_ground.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Drecreation_ground
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Drecreation_ground
I've done a history search of this forum & can find no discussions on
On Wednesday 05 December 2018, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> [...]
>
> This is reasonable; many features can be of interest to tourists, and
> tourism=attraction doesn't provide much information. Is it an area of
> shops? A beach? A theme park? A historic monument?
>
> However, there is a preset in
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