- Original Message -
From: Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
On 05/10/2011 16:36, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
The status of Jerusalem as part
[mailto:dimka.isr...@hotmail.co.il]
Verzonden: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 1:00 AM
Aan: talk@openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
Hello to all,
I would like to inform the OSM community about an ongoing dispute
regarding the node Jerusalem
http
On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 08:38 +0200, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert
Gremmen wrote:
What a childish approach of both sides…
what exactly is childish in the approach of this side?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
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On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 23:04:02 +0100
Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:
Mediation currently appears problematic because only one side of the
discussion is present. Ideally I'd like to see a joint statement from
the two sides (the local mappers) that states what the difference(s)
of position
Hi,
On 10/05/2011 01:00 AM, dimka israeli wrote:
In my opinion, the handling of this dispute by OSM officials has up
until now been entirely
inappropriate, damaging for the Israeli OSM community and perhaps even
politically motivated.
Data Working Group's position on this is that the
If they can't agree on the order if the two languages were combined (and I
suspect they can't), I would suggest trying to agree on a more-neutral third
language. Otherwise leave it blank.
If there's no agreement on the common name, then there's nothing to put in
the name tag.
Richard
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 08:42:13 +0200
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
, the node will either remain nameless, or
it will have both a Hebrew and Arab name combined in the name tag.
This suggestion was met with either silence or attempts to drag us
into a political disussion, which we
Lambert wrote:
Personally I would say: '.. OFFICIALLY used locally.'
Which is where it becomes political... Do you mean officially
according to Israel? Or official according to international
resolutions such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolut
ion_194
(see
Serge Wroclawski wrote:
I'm writing this response for two reasons. First, because I want
you, Dimka, and the rest of the Israeli community to read it.
You're not representing your side very well based on the forums.
For reference, the thread cited is here:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten lhc@solcon.nl wrote:
As an outsider I really don't understand this. Is there a dispute on
what can be considered the local language in Jerusalem?
Yes, it is. And this happens on some other areas in the world. The
answer just saying set up
- Original Message -
From: Pieren pier...@gmail.com
To: OSM talk@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten lhc@solcon.nl
wrote
2011/10/5 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org:
Data Working Group's position on this is that the community - meaning all
who live and map there - need to come to an amicable resolution and as long
as they don't, the node will either remain nameless, or it will have both a
Hebrew and Arab name
It is obvious to me that neither side will yield, even in an scenario with
both parties accepting on using arabic and hebrew on the name tag, they will
start fighting about wich one goes first. So it seems that the only
solution will be to use english (the de facto lingua franca of the world)
for
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:47:52 +0200
Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten lhc@solcon.nl
wrote:
As an outsider I really don't understand this. Is there a dispute on
what can be considered the local language in Jerusalem?
Yes, it is. And this
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Lambert Carsten lhc@solcon.nl wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:47:52 +0200
However the dispute Dmitry brought to our attention is about a decision
made by the DWG. Their position seems to be to agree with anything the
local mappers agree to. Few seem to regard
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem here is that without another side there can be no consensus.
I don't agree on this argument where a single edit contributor is
insignificant. You are saying that the opinion of one contributor
doing 1000 edits
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem here is that without another side there can be no consensus.
You are saying that the opinion of one contributor
doing 1000 edits is more
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem here is that without another side there can be no consensus.
You are saying that the opinion of one contributor
doing 1000 edits is more
Serge wrote:
The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed
That's not what the Wikipedia links that I posted earlier in this
thread suggested to me.
Ed
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On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:
Serge wrote:
The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed
That's not what the Wikipedia links that I posted earlier in this
thread suggested to me.
Ed, I'll quote the Wikipedia link:
Jerusalem (Hebrew:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 09:52:06 -0400
Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Lambert Carsten lhc@solcon.nl
wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:47:52 +0200
However the dispute Dmitry brought to our attention is about a
decision made by the DWG. Their
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 11:39:16 -0400
Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Serge Wroclawski
emac...@gmail.com wrote:
I said that you can't get consensus from idle accounts.
I like David's
- Original Message -
From: Lambert Carsten lhc@solcon.nl
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 11:39:16 -0400
Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Serge Wroclawski
The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed except by
the same sort of people who might say that London is not the capital
of the UK.
I don't find London in this list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
Hi,
On 10/05/2011 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten wrote:
If Hebrew is the (official) local language
Israel has two official local languages, Hebrew and Arabic. This is a
fact and upheld by Israel's supreme court.
this is not a tagging issue
but a rendering one as others have noted and in that
On 05/10/2011 16:36, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed. Its status
as a Palestinian city is
I'm not sure that's true. Israel was effectively created as a result of
a UN partition plan that would have created a Jewish state and an Arab
state,
On 05/10/2011 17:43, Lambert Carsten wrote:
-19 jan 2009 Esperanza36 added the Arabic name in front of the Hebrew
version.
No, Hebrew came first. (Remember, both languages are written right-to-left.)
--
Steve
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On 10/5/2011 1:50 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
On 10/05/2011 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten wrote:
If Hebrew is the (official) local language
Israel has two official local languages, Hebrew and Arabic. This is a
fact and upheld by Israel's supreme court.
And apparently a third de facto
Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] wrote:
Sent: 05 October 2011 18:51
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
Andy Robinson has been called in to mediate in this situation but
mediation
requires patience, and a willingness
.
Cheerio John
On 5 October 2011 18:04, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:
Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] wrote:
Sent: 05 October 2011 18:51
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
Andy Robinson has been called
Hello to all,
I would like to inform the OSM community about an ongoing dispute
regarding the node Jerusalem
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/29090735.
In my opinion, the handling of this dispute by OSM officials has up until now
been entirely
inappropriate, damaging for
2011/10/4 dimka israeli dimka.isr...@hotmail.co.il:
Hello to all,
I would like to inform the OSM community about an ongoing dispute
regarding the node Jerusalem
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/29090735.
Most of the hardcore community (the ones who are obsessive about the
project)
On 10/4/2011 7:00 PM, dimka israeli wrote:
Anxious to have it back, we proposed during the meeting to have two
separate nodes, tagged respectively in Hebrew and Arabic. However, the
other side would agree on nothing less than equal rendering (they are
explicitly interested in rendering only) of
It appears to me that the issue is resolved with the DWG's cange. If you
care enough about this issue to have the map rendered in a specific way,
then you (or the community around you) should set up a rendering toolchain
that renders objects with your preferred language.
Doing so is not
We have a similar problem in Ottawa with English and French. Politically
French is given equal weight but reality is most maps have English street
names etc.
We also had one or two entries that combined English and French which meant
they were difficult to read and extremely difficult to search.
Please forgive if I cut Dimka's email down to two sentences.
dimka israeli writes:
Three months ago, several people who never before made edits to OSM, claimed
that they cannot identify themselves with the map (and as a result, are not
ready to contribute to it), because the name of the
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