- Original Message -
From: "Steve Doerr"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
On 05/10/2011 16:36, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed. Its st
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 23:04:02 +0100
"Andy Robinson" wrote:
> Mediation currently appears problematic because only one side of the
> discussion is present. Ideally I'd like to see a joint statement from
> the two sides (the local mappers) that states what the difference(s)
> of position are. If it c
On Thu, 2011-10-06 at 08:38 +0200, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert
Gremmen wrote:
> What a childish approach of both sides…
what exactly is childish in the approach of this side?
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
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[mailto:dimka.isr...@hotmail.co.il]
Verzonden: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 1:00 AM
Aan: talk@openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
Hello to all,
I would like to inform the OSM community about an ongoing dispute
regarding the node "Jerusalem&q
maps spring to mind.
Cheerio John
On 5 October 2011 18:04, Andy Robinson wrote:
> Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] wrote:
> > Sent: 05 October 2011 18:51
> > To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
>
>
&
Frederik Ramm [mailto:frede...@remote.org] wrote:
> Sent: 05 October 2011 18:51
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
>
> Andy Robinson has been called in to mediate in this situation but
mediation
> requir
On 10/5/2011 1:50 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
On 10/05/2011 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten wrote:
If Hebrew is the (official) local language
Israel has two official local languages, Hebrew and Arabic. This is a
fact and upheld by Israel's supreme court.
And apparently a third de facto language,
On 05/10/2011 17:43, Lambert Carsten wrote:
-19 jan 2009 Esperanza36 added the Arabic name in front of the Hebrew
version.
No, Hebrew came first. (Remember, both languages are written right-to-left.)
--
Steve
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On 05/10/2011 16:36, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed. Its status
as a Palestinian city is
I'm not sure that's true. Israel was effectively created as a result of
a UN partition plan that would have created a Jewish state and an Arab
state, bu
Hi,
On 10/05/2011 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten wrote:
If Hebrew is the (official) local language
Israel has two official local languages, Hebrew and Arabic. This is a
fact and upheld by Israel's supreme court.
this is not a tagging issue
but a rendering one as others have noted and in that ca
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Serge Wroclawski
> The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed except by
> the same sort of people who might say that London is not the capital
> of the UK.
I don't find London in this list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territorial_disputes
An
- Original Message -
From: "Lambert Carsten"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 11:39:16 -0400
Serge Wroclawski wrote:
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Pieren wrote
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 11:39:16 -0400
Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Pieren wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Serge Wroclawski
> > wrote:
> I said that you can't get consensus from idle accounts.
>
> > I like David's idea with the specific tag "name:disputed".
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 09:52:06 -0400
Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Lambert Carsten
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:47:52 +0200
>
> > However the dispute Dmitry brought to our attention is about a
> > decision made by the DWG. Their position seems to be to agree wi
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Ed Loach wrote:
> Serge wrote:
>
>> The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed
>
> That's not what the Wikipedia links that I posted earlier in this
> thread suggested to me.
Ed, I'll quote the Wikipedia link:
"Jerusalem (Hebrew: יְרוּשָׁלַיִם Ab
Serge wrote:
> The status of Jerusalem as part of Israel is not disputed
That's not what the Wikipedia links that I posted earlier in this
thread suggested to me.
Ed
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On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Pieren wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
>> The problem here is that without "another side" there can be no "consensus".
> You are saying that the opinion of one contributor
> doing 1000 edits is more important than the opinion of 1
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Pieren wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
>> The problem here is that without "another side" there can be no "consensus".
> You are saying that the opinion of one contributor
> doing 1000 edits is more important than the opinion of 1
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> The problem here is that without "another side" there can be no "consensus".
I don't agree on this argument where a single edit contributor is
insignificant. You are saying that the opinion of one contributor
doing 1000 edits is more impor
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Lambert Carsten wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:47:52 +0200
> However the dispute Dmitry brought to our attention is about a decision
> made by the DWG. Their position seems to be to agree with anything the
> local mappers agree to. Few seem to regard that as viabl
On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:47:52 +0200
Pieren wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten
> wrote:
> > As an outsider I really don't understand this. Is there a dispute on
> > what can be considered the local language in Jerusalem?
>
> Yes, it is. And this happens on some other areas i
It is obvious to me that neither side will yield, even in an scenario with
both parties accepting on using arabic and hebrew on the name tag, they will
start fighting about wich one goes first. So it seems that the only
"solution" will be to use english (the de facto lingua franca of the world)
for
2011/10/5 Frederik Ramm :
> Data Working Group's position on this is that the community - meaning all
> who live and map there - need to come to an amicable resolution and as long
> as they don't, the node will either remain nameless, or it will have both a
> Hebrew and Arab name combined in the "n
- Original Message -
From: "Pieren"
To: "OSM"
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Naming dispute over Jerusalem - OSM failure
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten
wrote:
As an outsider I really don't un
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Lambert Carsten wrote:
> As an outsider I really don't understand this. Is there a dispute on
> what can be considered the local language in Jerusalem?
Yes, it is. And this happens on some other areas in the world. The
answer just saying "set up your own tile serv
Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> I'm writing this response for two reasons. First, because I want
> you, Dimka, and the rest of the Israeli community to read it.
> You're not representing your side very well based on the forums.
For reference, the thread cited is here:
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/vi
Lambert wrote:
> Personally I would say: '.. OFFICIALLY used locally.'
Which is where it becomes political... Do you mean officially
according to Israel? Or official according to international
resolutions such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolut
ion_194
(see a
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 08:42:13 +0200
Frederik Ramm wrote:
>, the node will either remain nameless, or
> it will have both a Hebrew and Arab name combined in the "name" tag.
> This suggestion was met with either silence or attempts to drag us
> into a political disussion, which we refused.
As an out
If they can't agree on the order if the two languages were combined (and I
suspect they can't), I would suggest trying to agree on a more-neutral third
language. Otherwise leave it blank.
If there's no agreement on the common name, then there's nothing to put in
the name tag.
Richard
_
Hi,
On 10/05/2011 01:00 AM, dimka israeli wrote:
In my opinion, the handling of this dispute by OSM officials has up
until now been entirely
inappropriate, damaging for the Israeli OSM community and perhaps even
politically motivated.
Data Working Group's position on this is that the community
Please forgive if I cut Dimka's email down to two sentences.
dimka israeli writes:
> Three months ago, several people who never before made edits to OSM, claimed
> that they cannot identify themselves with the map (and as a result, are not
> ready to contribute to it), because the name of the
We have a similar problem in Ottawa with English and French. Politically
French is given equal weight but reality is most maps have English street
names etc.
We also had one or two entries that combined English and French which meant
they were difficult to read and extremely difficult to search.
It appears to me that the issue is resolved with the DWG's cange. If you
care enough about this issue to have the map rendered in a specific way,
then you (or the community around you) should set up a rendering toolchain
that renders objects with your preferred language.
Doing so is not technic
On 10/4/2011 7:00 PM, dimka israeli wrote:
Anxious to have it back, we proposed during the meeting to have two
separate nodes, tagged respectively in Hebrew and Arabic. However, the
other side would agree on nothing less than equal rendering (they are
explicitly interested in rendering only) of t
2011/10/4 dimka israeli :
> Hello to all,
>
> I would like to inform the OSM community about an ongoing dispute
> regarding the node "Jerusalem"
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/29090735.
Most of the hardcore community (the ones who are obsessive about the
project) already know about thi
Hello to all,
I would like to inform the OSM community about an ongoing dispute
regarding the node "Jerusalem"
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/29090735.
In my opinion, the handling of this dispute by OSM officials has up until now
been entirely
inappropriate, damaging for
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