Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-05 Thread Floris Looijesteijn
oneway=no is very clear to me and different to not having a oneway value at all. this way it means it was surveyed and it is not a oneway. maybe with lit=yes or lit=no is more clear that is actually adds something of value? greets, floris On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 2:04 AM, pmailkeey .

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-04 Thread pmailkeey .
On 4 June 2015 at 19:39, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 04/06/15 16:04, Paweł Paprota wrote: Could you please move this discussion to the tagging list? While some elements being picked up on are simple 'tagging' questions, it is the general structure we are discussing which in my

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-04 Thread Lester Caine
On 04/06/15 16:04, Paweł Paprota wrote: Could you please move this discussion to the tagging list? While some elements being picked up on are simple 'tagging' questions, it is the general structure we are discussing which in my book is the whole point of OSM. I think there is still room to

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-04 Thread Paweł Paprota
Could you please move this discussion to the tagging list? On Thu, Jun 4, 2015, at 16:57, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 04.06.2015 um 01:48 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: A value of residential here seems to need a key to identify whether it relates to a

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-04 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am 04.06.2015 um 01:48 schrieb pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: A value of residential here seems to need a key to identify whether it relates to a building or landuse. there is also highway=residential However, you suggest building=residential as possibly being redundant.

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread Lester Caine
On 03/06/15 12:57, Janko Mihelić wrote: Yes, we need semantic meaning and structure, but I still don't understand how do two strings help you with that. Key and value can only help someone who is digging through a xml file to quickly help themselves. But the true meaning of a k=v combination

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread pmailkeey .
On 3 June 2015 at 09:45, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 03/06/15 01:04, pmailkeey . wrote: OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. Similarly are 'categories' like man_made', and 'amenity'. Why can we not simply stick to hard facts rather guessing what

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread Lester Caine
On 04/06/15 00:48, pmailkeey . wrote: A value of residential here seems to need a key to identify whether it relates to a building or landuse. However, you suggest building=residential as possibly being redundant. In fact, I'd turn this on its head and make landuse=residential (with the

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am 03.06.2015 um 12:21 schrieb Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: The areas I'm trying to tidy up are small shopping malls which have shops within shops on multiple levels ... with accommodation above. A combination of objects is just what I'm looking for, but with different outlines for

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread Janko Mihelić
I don't get the problem with k=v instead of just v. There is a function called concatenate which solves that. We should move away from mapping directly with tags, and to a system like iDs, with descriptions that hide tags. For a database it's irrelevant if it's oneway=yes or 4658. All this talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am 03.06.2015 um 10:45 schrieb Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: Just what combination is right for a single retail building with a leisure facility on the ground floor and accommodation above? I don't think a combination of tags is the best answer to this question, it's rather a

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread Lester Caine
On 03/06/15 01:04, pmailkeey . wrote: OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. Similarly are 'categories' like man_made', and 'amenity'. Why can we not simply stick to hard facts rather guessing what categor(ies) an object fits in This is a bit like saying XML is the

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread Lester Caine
On 03/06/15 10:30, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Just what combination is right for a single retail building with a leisure facility on the ground floor and accommodation above? I don't think a combination of tags is the best answer to this question, it's rather a combination of objects (3,

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-03 Thread Lester Caine
On 03/06/15 12:02, Janko Mihelić wrote: I don't get the problem with k=v instead of just v. There is a function called concatenate which solves that. We should move away from mapping directly with tags, and to a system like iDs, with descriptions that hide tags. For a database it's

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM is 90% argument, 5% dead-end discussions and 5% progress. The whole is not a marketable product; it's not fit to be rated as 'beta'. Is this a significant

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread Bryce Nesbitt
On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 5:04 PM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: iD shows oneway=unknown if it's not set. If it's unknown, iD should not show oneway at all. OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. Similarly are 'categories' like man_made', and 'amenity'. Why

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread pmailkeey .
On 3 June 2015 at 01:36, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: Perhaps http://wikimapia.org/ will better match your needs, and offer more peace for your family, property and pets. Well, on Monday the 'prison' idea went out the window. Having me and my brother accused of ill-treating our

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
On 6/3/15, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: On Jun 2, 2015, at 6:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com mailto:pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...]

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread Warin
On 3/06/2015 10:37 AM, Tom MacWright wrote: Hi Mike, Please propose an alternative. He has been .. on other threads.. On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com mailto:sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com

[OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread pmailkeey .
iD shows oneway=unknown if it's not set. If it's unknown, iD should not show oneway at all. In OSM if oneway=no then it's not oneway and the oneway tag should not appear at all. The only time oneway should appear is in the case of oneway=yes - and the '=yes' is superfluous. OSM's k=v design is

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread Tom MacWright
Hi Mike, Please propose an alternative. On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM is 90% argument, 5% dead-end

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread Steve Coast
Fair point, I meant in the context of the list, as I thought others did too. Steve On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 6:07 PM -0700, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/3/15, Steve Coast wrote: On Jun 2, 2015, at 6:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM,

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread Steve Coast
On Jun 2, 2015, at 6:22 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 3, 2015 8:06 AM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com mailto:pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: OSM's k=v design is completely a serious and unnecessary flaw. [...] OSM is 90% argument, 5% dead-end discussions

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess (was: Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue)

2015-06-02 Thread pmailkeey .
On 3 June 2015 at 01:37, Tom MacWright t...@macwright.org wrote: Hi Mike, Please propose an alternative. I see an awful lot of good in OSM and I think it's a great project. I've had it agreed with another about it being such a mess - but the fact it's such a worthwhile project it's worth