Re: [Talk-it] Classificazione strade

[Simone Saviolo]

Il giorno mar 26 feb 2019 alle ore 00:54 Sergio Manzi  ha
scritto:

> Simone, ma devi ammettere che il tuo scopo principale è proprio quello di
> ottimizzare (*secondo alcuni criteri*) il grafo,
>
Questo è il corretto punto di vista della teoria dei grafi, se ne parli con
un matematico. Ma io sono un ingegnere, cioè prima di tutto un matematico
applicato, uno che sa che i segnali discontinui esistono nei teoremi ma non
nella fisica. Nella realtà, un grafo sconnesso - che tu mi dici essere il
grafo stradale - non è realistico: se una strada primaria mi ha portato da
Torino a Vercelli, ma poi si interrompe (perché c'è il centro abitato,
perché è diventata provinciale, perché c'è il limite dei 50 all'ora, perché
ha una larghezza o un numero di corsie differente), io come ci vado a
Novara? Nella realtà *esiste* (non me lo sto inventando io dalla poltrona)
un percorso che attraversa o gira intorno a Vercelli per continuare verso
Novara, e girerà attorno o attraverserà Novara per andare verso Milano. E
da lì continuerà e si diramerà per andare da altre parti ancora. Esiste ed
è continuo anche se alcune sue caratteristiche cambiano da tratto a tratto.

> che è un punto di vista validissimo, ma non necessariamente rispecchia la
> realtà "amministrativa" della highway e in generale della rete. Tra l'altro
> il grafo è spesso non ordinato: da vie primarie senza dubbio possono
> diramarsi anche vie terziarie, direttamente, ma questo poco importa in
> questo contesto.
>
Giustissimo: prima non l'ho specificato per motivi di sintesi, ma
ovviamente non intendevo imporre una gerarchia stretta.

> Onestamente non so cosa tu intenda come "*grafo sensato*": temo che dovrò
> rinfrescarmi la memoria sulla teoria dei grafi...
>
Hai ragione :D Spero di aver spiegato un po' meglio sopra cos'avevo in
mente :)

> Penso che ci dovrebbe essere spazio anche per informazione qualificata di
> altro genere, quale appunto, la "realtà amministrativo-legale".
>

Sono completamente d'accordo - ma per questo non userei la classificazione
principale che mettiamo nel tag highway=*.

Ciao,

Simone
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Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: [V-IOLA] On-Line Support - ACTIVATION REQUEST

[Alessandro Palmas]

  
  
Buongiorno lista,
ieri sera è partita la richiesta d'attivazione (è una esercitazione,
non si tratta di emergenza) da C.R.I.

Ho fatto però notare che in mancanza di altri supporti informativi
non ci sarebbe possibile mappare diverse strutture. Ho quindi
chiesto un survey con Mapillary a chi è sul posto.
Attualmente potremmo aggiungere parcheggi a possibile aree per campi
d'accoglienza (vedi messaggio originale).

Grazie a tutti per il supporto; a presto con nuovi aggiornamenti dal
Montenegro

Alessandro
Vi ricordo che il task è raggiungibile a http://alezena.no-ip.biz/project/7

  
   Messaggio Inoltrato 
  

  
Oggetto:

Online support
  
  
Data: 
Mon, 25 Feb 2019 20:15:19 +0100
  
  
Mittente:

Lorenzo X
  
  
A: 
Alessandro Palmas 
  
  
CC: 
Davide X
  

  
  
  
  Caro Alessandro,
  spero tu stia bene.
  Ti scrivo in merito all’attivazione dei tuoi
volontari per il supporto a distanza dell’esercitazione in
Montenegro.
  
  
  Abbiamo ricevuto oggi la richiesta da parte degli
esercitati in merito alle prime necessità di supporto da parte
degli online volunteers.
  
  
  In particolare si necessita di:
  - la posizione delle celle (copertura telefoni
cellulari) nel comune di Sutomore
  - la posizione di aziende produttive
  - la posizione di centrali elettriche
  - posizione di ponti, scuole, ospedali, strutture
sanitarie e di soccorso
  - posizione di potenziali aree di ammassamento dei
soccorsi (parcheggi)e aree per i campi d’accoglienza (100mx70m
in piano, raggiungibili con un camion.
  
  
  L’area d’interesse è il comune di Sutomore. Fatemi
sapere, per favore, cosa riuscite a fare, quali informazioni
aggiuntive necessitate e se avete bisogno di mandare qualche
team a verificare qualcosa.
  
  
  Grazie mille, per ora!
  A presto!
  Lorenzo
  

  


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[OSM-co] semanarioOSM Nº 448 2019-02-12-2019-02-18

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 448, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/11623/

¡Disfruta!

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-es] semanarioOSM Nº 448 2019-02-12-2019-02-18

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 448, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/11623/

¡Disfruta!

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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[Talk-cu] semanarioOSM Nº 448 2019-02-12-2019-02-18

[theweekly . osm]

Hola, el semanario Nº 448, el sumario de todo lo que está ocurriendo en el 
mundo de openstreetmap está en línea en *español*:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/es/archives/11623/

¡Disfruta!

semanarioOSM? 
¿Dónde?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
¿Quién?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-it] pronto soccorso ospedali italiani

[Aury88]

dieterdreist wrote
> sent from a phone
> 
>> On 24. Feb 2019, at 10:06, Aury88 

> spacedriver88@

>  wrote:
>> 
>> ma alle uscite di sicurezza da
>> utilizzare se si deve evacuare l'edificio
> 
> 
> lo so che qualcuno lo vede così, ma lo sto contestando da sempre. Quelle
> vanno taggato exit=emergency 
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/exit

sono d'accordo che sia più corretto il tag exit, ma fino a quando
entrance=emergency è descritto come "An emergency exit is a one-way out of a
building in case of fire. It is often combined with a fire alarm box. See
also exit=emergency for these" possiamo contestare quanto vogliamo ma il suo
utilizzo, se lo si deve proprio utilizzare, deve essere solo e limitatamente
per le uscite di emergenza, non per altre informazioni.
personalmente mi sorprende che un tag del genere non sia stato già deprecato
(per magari re-introdurlo, una volta eliminato dalla mappa, per descrivere
qualcos'altro) 



-
Ciao,
Aury
--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Townlands and N.I

[Patrick Matthews]

My understanding is that townlands are officially defined in Northern
Ireland (they form part of the OSNI OpenData administrative boundaries
release) but while they are still used as building blocks for higher-level
administrative areas such as wards, they are not normally used in
addresses. I would suggest adding "and Northern Ireland"  to the entry on
townlands.

Paddy Matthews.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 12:27 AM Tadeusz Cantwell  wrote:

> According to the wiki
>  townlands
> are
> only valid in Ireland the country as an official admin boundary, but the
> N.I
> page 
> mentions the admin boundaries are similar to townlands. So should the wiki
> not be updated to something like "and used for historical mapping of admin
> borders in N.I", or would that kind of change need to be officially
> approved.
>
> Tadeusz
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[Talk-it] A Tatti (GR) l’edizione metallifera dello International Open Data Day 2019

[Andrea Giacomelli]

Scusandomi per i cross-posting:

http://www.pibinko.org/a-tatti-gr-ledizione-metallifera-dello-international-open-data-day-2019/

Un saluto a tutti

Andrea Giacomelli
Cultura, ambiente, innovazione libera
http://www.pibinko.org
i...@pibinko.org
+39 331 7539228
P. IVA: 01582480537
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[OSM-talk] Openstreetmap-carto switching to ocean polygons

[Joseph Eisenberg]

There is a new PR on the Openstreetmap-carto Github page which will switch
this “standard” style (used on the main OSM page) to water polygons instead
of land polygons.

However, some users reported problems with the simplified water polygon
shapefiles when this change was attempted in 2016. We believe the problem
is no longer present, because the German map style is using these
shapefiles without problems, but it needs testing. If you were one of the
affected users, please try out the change on your server.

The branch is available at:
https://github.com/jeisenbe/openstreetmap-carto/tree/ocean-polygons

New PR:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3694

Old issue:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2101
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Re: [Talk-it] Classificazione strade

[Sergio Manzi]

Simone, ma devi ammettere che il tuo scopo principale è proprio quello di 
ottimizzare (/secondo alcuni criteri/) il grafo, che è un punto di vista 
validissimo, ma non necessariamente rispecchia la realtà "amministrativa" della 
highway e in generale della rete. Tra l'altro il grafo è spesso non ordinato: 
da vie primarie senza dubbio possono diramarsi anche vie terziarie, 
direttamente, ma questo poco importa in questo contesto.

Onestamente non so cosa tu intenda come "/grafo sensato/": temo che dovrò 
rinfrescarmi la memoria sulla teoria dei grafi...

Penso che ci dovrebbe essere spazio anche per informazione qualificata di altro 
genere, quale appunto, la "realtà amministrativo-legale".

Ciao,
Sergio


On 2019-02-26 00:42, Simone Saviolo wrote:
> Il giorno mar 26 feb 2019 alle ore 00:07 Sergio Manzi  > ha scritto:
>
> Sinceramente non mi sento di concordare con chi utilizza il tagging come 
> mezzo per assegnare un coefficiente in input agli algoritmi di routing. 
> Capisco, funziona e probabilmente è molto utile, ma mi sembra che si rischi 
> di cadere nell'equivalente del "mentire per il rendering": "mentire per il 
> routing".
>
> Non è mentire per il routing. Un grafo stradale è composto da poche vie 
> primarie, sulle quali si innestano alcune vie secondarie, sulle quali si 
> innestano parecchie vie terziarie, sulle quali si innestano molte vie 
> unclassified. Per me la regola è: se io considerassi solo le primary, avrei 
> un grafo sensato? Magari un grafo che non tocca Acqui Terme, ma è un grafo 
> connesso e privo di isole? Se ci aggiungo le secondary, ho ancora un grafo 
> sensato?
>
> A meno che tu non intenda mappare una certa strada come highway per non far 
> andare le macchine sulla secondary parallela. Quello è sbagliato. 
>
> Ciao,
> Simone 
>
> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] Classificazione strade

[Simone Saviolo]

Il giorno mar 26 feb 2019 alle ore 00:07 Sergio Manzi  ha
scritto:

> Sinceramente non mi sento di concordare con chi utilizza il tagging come
> mezzo per assegnare un coefficiente in input agli algoritmi di routing.
> Capisco, funziona e probabilmente è molto utile, ma mi sembra che si rischi
> di cadere nell'equivalente del "mentire per il rendering": "mentire per il
> routing".
>
Non è mentire per il routing. Un grafo stradale è composto da poche vie
primarie, sulle quali si innestano alcune vie secondarie, sulle quali si
innestano parecchie vie terziarie, sulle quali si innestano molte vie
unclassified. Per me la regola è: se io considerassi solo le primary, avrei
un grafo sensato? Magari un grafo che non tocca Acqui Terme, ma è un grafo
connesso e privo di isole? Se ci aggiungo le secondary, ho ancora un grafo
sensato?

A meno che tu non intenda mappare una certa strada come highway per non far
andare le macchine sulla secondary parallela. Quello è sbagliato.

Ciao,
Simone
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Re: [Talk-it] Classificazione strade

[Sergio Manzi]

Ciao a tutti e scusate il ritardo con cui rispondo ai vostri commenti, ma ho 
avuto un po' di impegni familiari.

Scusatemi anche se non rispondo ai singli commenti, ma in modo collettivo.

Mi sembra di capire che le opinioni si possano dividere in tre "classi":

 1. La più benevola: L'idea non è sbagliata ma dobbiamo trovare nuove tag per 
registrare questa informazione (/la classe di strada secondo il C.dS/)
 2. Non se ne parla neanche: per definire le highway abbiamo i nostri criteri 
consolidati e non dobbiamo cambiarli, giammai. (/o giù di lì.../)
 3. Pragmatico-relativista: la classificazione delle highway è importante per 
il routing. Assegnare una certa classe è importante per indirizzare o meno il 
traffico verso una certa higway.


Penso di capire i motivi di ognuno, ma vorrei fare qualche 
obiezione/precisazione.

Intanto voglio rassicurarvi che mi è chiaro che qualsiasi proposta/decisione 
non possa in alcun modo prescindere dal mantenere il valore dell'erdità di 
quanto fatto fino ad ora.

In questo senso apprezzo e sostengo quindi l'idea di Martin di creare, a 
latere, un'apposita tag per categorizzare le highway secondo il Codice della 
Strada: intanto si parte da questo, che comunque è una informazione 
interessante ed utile, poi si vedrà, chissà, se un domani questo potrà 
implicare (o anche no) una ri-categorizzazione massiva. Senza troppo dibattere 
adesso su che forma questa tag potrà assumere, mi sembra che la proposta di 
Martin (official:it:cds=*) sia più che condivisibile.

Oltre alle categorie del CdS, però, penso sarebbe anche importante registrare 
"il demanio" titolare delle strade.


Per quanto riguarda la "prassi consolidata" di tagging finora adottata, cioè 
quanto indicato dal wiki italiano, la mia impressione è che, come spesso 
accade, le indicazioni per il tagging siano per lo più descrittive, lasciando 
ampio spazio all'interpretazione personale (es.: "/Collegano tra loro i comuni 
più piccoli./" Sì, ma quanto piccoli?, "In ambito urbano normalmente sono 
classificate come vie importanti anche a due corsie per senso di marcia." 
Classificate come importanti da chi e secondo quali criteri?).

Questo lo trovo un po' curioso perché se non ho capito male la nomenclatura 
delle tag originale in inglese rispecchia proprio una classificazione 
ufficiale, secondo quello che è  il CdS Inglese (o altra analoga 
classificazione uffciale).

Quindi siamo un po noi (/e probabilmente non solo/) ad essere "anomali" 
rispetto agli intenti originali della tag.


Sinceramente non mi sento di concordare con chi utilizza il tagging come mezzo 
per assegnare un coefficiente in input agli algoritmi di routing. Capisco, 
funziona e probabilmente è molto utile, ma mi sembra che si rischi di cadere 
nell'equivalente del "mentire per il rendering": "mentire per il routing".

Se gli algoritmi di routing mancano di adeguato input, bisogna fornirglielo: 
forse ci servono anche delle tag per parametri tecnici quali il flusso medio di 
traffico (/che potrebbe anche essere orario e stagionale/), la velocità 
consentita (/mi sembra che ci sia una proposta per questo.../) o chessò quale 
altra diavoleria (/non sono un tecnico del settore/).


IMPORTANTE (/per chi gli interessa.../): è in corso una discussione/proposta 
analoga nel lista [Tagging]: nel thread "Clarification unclassified vs 
residential" vedere i post di "djakk djakk"


Ciao a tutti,

Sergio



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Wochennotiz Nr. 448 12.02.2019–18.02.2019

[Wochennotizteam]

Hallo,

die Wochennotiz Nr. 448 mit vielen wichtigen Neuigkeiten aus der
OpenStreetMap-Welt ist da:

http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2019/02/wochennotiz-nr-448/

Wusstet ihr, dass ihr auch selbst Meldungen für die Wochennotiz
einreichen könnt, ohne Mitglied zu sein?  Einfach auf
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login mit eurem OSM-Benutzerkonto
anmelden und dann den Gastzugang benutzen.

Viel Spaß beim Lesen

Euer Wochennotizteam
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Re: [Talk-GB] BT phoneboxes

[Robert Norris]

> From: Jez Nicholson 
> Going back to this January discussion, has anyone tagged a kiosk/pod yet? 
> what would you tag it if it isn't a 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dtelephone any more?

I tend to use either:

man_made=telephone_box typically for ones repurposed with defibrillators 
(emergency=defibrillator)
or
public_bookcase:type=phone_box for ones repurposed as small lending libraries 
(amenity=public_bookcase)

and then if confident about the phone box type then something like:
booth=K6 as mentioned on 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dtelephone

--
Be Seeing You - Rob.
If at first you don't succeed,
then skydiving isn't for you.
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Re: [talk-cz] Administrativní hranice

[Jan Skala]

Ahoj, jsem s to udělat výtah z celé Evropy. Momentálně mám filtr 
"wr/admin_level=2,4 n/place=island,country,city", ale můžu to upravit, 
dle libosti.


Honza

On 25. 02. 19 16:50, majka wrote:


Čechy by měl mít Speirs, má speciální mapu administrativních hranic 
, netuším 
jestli je tam vše požadované.



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[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2019-02-23

[Dave Hansen]

These are based off of Lambertus's work here:

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl

If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.

Downloads:

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2019-02-23

Map to visualize what each file contains:


http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2019-02-23/kml/kml.html


FAQ



Why did you do this?

I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
on removable media.  

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2019-02-23

Can or should I seed the torrents?

Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
side of the Atlantic.

Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?

There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
want to update if you had issues with the last set.

Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?

If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
file.

Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?

Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
non-US area to get included, let me know. 

-- Dave


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Re: [Talk-GB] BT phoneboxes

[Brian Prangle]

OSMUK chapter currently has a csv file of all the Inlink locations,
supplied by Inlink but the licence is incompatible and we are currently in
discussion with them. However perhaps Rober Whitaker might be able to
produe a map similar to the one for Royal Mail  postboxes where the
copyright is acknowledged and there is a heavy disclaimer that the map is a
guide to locating items for a ground survey and the data mus not  be copied
per se into OSM. BT were unwilling to supply either the locationsof the
Inlink replacements or a schedule of closures of current phoneboxes

Regards

Brian

On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 at 16:48, Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 at 17:48, Brian Prangle  wrote:
>
> > BT are planning to remove thousands of phoneboxes, many of
> > which we will have mapped.I understand that for every two they
> > remove they will be installing one  InLink
> >
> > These street "pods" have free wifi, free calls, free device charging  and
> > an information tablet: all financed by the inbuilt advertising screens.
>
> There's some controversy about these InLink devices:
>
>https://www.adrianshort.org/posts/2019/bt-inlink-permitted-development/
>
> and Adrian Short has compiled a list of related planning applications,
> which may be useful for folk wanting to find examples to map:
>
>https://kiosks.adrianshort.org/
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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[OSM-ja] 追加提案(Re: 改定提案 - RFC - Proposed Japan tagging/Road types)

[石野貴之]

こんばんは。yumean1119です。
hayashiさんの提案について、この機会に現在のJapan_taggingに記載のないhighway=cyclewayおよびhighway=living_streetについても何か決めてしまったほうがよいと思い、現在の自分の考え方をまとめました。

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Japan_tagging/Road_types_2

特に、現地調査をして特に必要であると判断した場合という条件つきで、日本でもliving_streetの使用を認めたほうが良いのではないかと自分は考えていますが、この点について皆様の考え方を頂戴できれば幸いです。

石野 貴之
yumean1...@gmail.com
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Une nouvelle manière de tagger les routes

[PanierAvide]

Bonjour,

Je suis un peu partagé, autant certains aspects ont du sens (un système 
admin_level-like pour les routes c'est intéressant), autant d'autres 
aspects vont vite tourner à la même situation qu'actuellement  avec 
highway=* (tag importance, c'est plus flou la frontière entre routes 
qu'entres voies ferrées où le réseau est plus "segmenté").


Ma crainte c'est que ça finisse comme la proposition des tags 
public_transport=* : une bonne idée au départ, un bazar en pratique car 
les outils ne suivent pas (ou qu'à moitié). Ceci étant comme proposait 
marc, ça vaudrait le coup de documenter des exemples pour voir ce que ça 
donnerait concrètement.


Cordialement,

Adrien P.

Le 25/02/2019 à 19:28, djakk djakk a écrit :
Salut ! J’ai planché sur une nouvelle manière de tagger les routes (au 
sens large, ça comprend les pistes cyclables ou les chemins piétons) : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Djakk/new_tagging_scheme_for_roads 
(en anglais)

J’en parle aussi sur la mailing-list tagging mondiale.

J’attend vos réactions, critiques, nouvelles idées ;-)

@+
Julien “djakk”

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Une nouvelle manière de tagger les routes

[marc marc]

Bonjour,

Le 25.02.19 à 19:28, djakk djakk a écrit :
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Djakk/new_tagging_scheme_for_roads 

où a été prise la première photo ?
j'ai l'impression qu'il y a erreur de tag (comment fait le piéton pour 
sortir de chez lui alors que le trunk interdit souvent les piétons)

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22811168 a l'air aussi faux pedestrian 
est une rue piétonne, donc largeur d'une rue,
passage possible d'un 4x4 ou d'un véhicule de secours.
si ce lieux est un sentier, c'est pas une rue piétonne)


> J’en parle aussi sur la mailing-list tagging mondiale.

pour ceux qui n'ont sont pas, l'avis majoritaire pour le moment
est d'utiliser d'autres tags qu'une réfonte du tag highway
car cela casserait tous les outils existants.
si par exemple on veux tager la différence entre la première et les 
autres photos, le nombre de bande et le fait d'être à sens unique
est un bon début.


> J’attend vos réactions, critiques, nouvelles idées ;-)

cela m'a l'air d'introduire plus de subjectivité que d'objectivité.
comme highway_physics et le tag traffic dont je me souviens encore
quand t'as inventé des valeurs dans des changeset sans source pour faire 
coller à ton impression d'importance des routes puis utilisé ces mêmes 
valeurs pour changer les tags highway en utilisant cet info suposée 
objective mais inventée.

tu pourrais te livrer à l'exercice de mettre les tags que tu proposes 
sur tes exemples et surtout sur base de quelle source vérifiable ?
parce que https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:V%C3%A9rifiabilit%C3%A9

Cordialement,
Marc
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[OSM-talk-fr] Une nouvelle manière de tagger les routes

[djakk djakk]

Salut ! J’ai planché sur une nouvelle manière de tagger les routes (au sens
large, ça comprend les pistes cyclables ou les chemins piétons) :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Djakk/new_tagging_scheme_for_roads
(en anglais)
J’en parle aussi sur la mailing-list tagging mondiale.

J’attend vos réactions, critiques, nouvelles idées ;-)

@+
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Re: [talk-cz] logo komunity OSM CZ a logo spolku OSM CR

[Petr Schönmann]

V tom případě ok, prohlížeč si s tím zřejmě neporadil korektně. V jiném je
to jako na tvém obrázku.

po 25. 2. 2019 v 18:06 odesílatel majka  napsal:

> [image: Vše.png]
> Jaké bílé plochy? Ty dvě spodní jsou BW + stupně šedé, co by bylo přesně
> určené na tisk BW. Je tam místo na úpravu zabarvení, je to hozené tak nějak
> od oka. A vyhodila jsem to rozostření.
> Spíš se mi zdá, že to chce tu lupu trochu decentněji a vlajku uvnitř větší.
>
> Majka
>
> On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 at 17:45, Petr Schönmann  wrote:
>
>> BW variantu bych udělal i pro BW papíry kde dolní část bude mít 50% šedi.
>> Ty dvě bílé plochy jsou fakt divné. U razítka nevím jak bych 50% řešil.
>> Nějakou jemnou šrafovanou mřížkou ?
>>
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Re: [talk-cz] logo komunity OSM CZ a logo spolku OSM CR

[majka]

[image: Vše.png]
Jaké bílé plochy? Ty dvě spodní jsou BW + stupně šedé, co by bylo přesně
určené na tisk BW. Je tam místo na úpravu zabarvení, je to hozené tak nějak
od oka. A vyhodila jsem to rozostření.
Spíš se mi zdá, že to chce tu lupu trochu decentněji a vlajku uvnitř větší.

Majka

On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 at 17:45, Petr Schönmann  wrote:

> BW variantu bych udělal i pro BW papíry kde dolní část bude mít 50% šedi.
> Ty dvě bílé plochy jsou fakt divné. U razítka nevím jak bych 50% řešil.
> Nějakou jemnou šrafovanou mřížkou ?
>
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Re: [Talk-de] "Küss- und Tschüsszonen" / Elternhaltestellen

[Fabian Schmidt]

Taginfo kennt 56x kiss_ride=yes/train und 48× capacity:kiss_n_rid(e) an 
Parkplätzen. Laut Wikipedia ist "Kiss and ride" international gängig.


Gruß, Fabian.

Am 25.02.19 schrieb Tobias Wrede:


Hallo,

ich kenn das an Bahnhöfen als Kiss & Ride. Kurze Suche auf OSM zeigt, dass 
das sehr oft einfach als name=kiss and ride an Straßen, parking aisles, 
localities etc getaggt ist. K: Kraut und Rüben könnte man sagen.


Tobi

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Re: [Talk-GB] BT phoneboxes

[Andy Mabbett]

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 at 17:48, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> BT are planning to remove thousands of phoneboxes, many of
> which we will have mapped.I understand that for every two they
> remove they will be installing one  InLink
>
> These street "pods" have free wifi, free calls, free device charging  and
> an information tablet: all financed by the inbuilt advertising screens.

There's some controversy about these InLink devices:

   https://www.adrianshort.org/posts/2019/bt-inlink-permitted-development/

and Adrian Short has compiled a list of related planning applications,
which may be useful for folk wanting to find examples to map:

   https://kiosks.adrianshort.org/

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [talk-cz] logo komunity OSM CZ a logo spolku OSM CR

[Petr Schönmann]

BW variantu bych udělal i pro BW papíry kde dolní část bude mít 50% šedi.
Ty dvě bílé plochy jsou fakt divné. U razítka nevím jak bych 50% řešil.
Nějakou jemnou šrafovanou mřížkou ?

po 25. 2. 2019 v 12:38 odesílatel Tom Ka  napsal:

> ne 24. 2. 2019 v 18:55 odesílatel majka  napsal:
> > Co tohle, jako česká zjednodušená varianta? To by mohlo fungovat i pokud
> budeme někde chtít použít logo v opravdu malé velikosti, případně ho
> tisknout na černobílé tiskárně. Jde to ještě o kus zjednodušit, ta "vlajka"
> má v obou přiložených variantách nastavené rozostření pro lepší vzhled na
> obrazovce. Pak bychom byli na šesti barvách, a ta šedá varianta se dá
> zredukovat na čtyři barvy.
> >
> > Zkoušela jsem i černobílou variantu (razítko), a je také proveditelná.
>
> Ahoj,
>
> za mne dobry, asi bych udelal i vlajku ostre, pusobi na mne spis
> rusive, kdyz je zbytek ostry.
>
> Vim, ze to chces asi dotahnout kvuli tem svym podkladum, ale dejme
> tomu prosim jeste cas. Zkusim to pripomenout i ve weekly, ale rad bych
> aby meli vsichni moznost se ozvat, nerad bych to za 1/2 roku
> predelaval, to je lepsi dat tomu trochu casu navic.
>
> Kazdopadne zatim je to 10 hlasu pro stejne logo komunity i spolku,
> pokud nekdo ma jiny nazor, ozvete se prosim!
>
> Diky
>
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Re: [Talk-de] "Küss- und Tschüsszonen" / Elternhaltestellen

[Tobias Wrede]

Hallo,

ich kenn das an Bahnhöfen als Kiss & Ride. Kurze Suche auf OSM zeigt, 
dass das sehr oft einfach als name=kiss and ride an Straßen, parking 
aisles, localities etc getaggt ist. K: Kraut und Rüben könnte man sagen.


Tobi


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] WikiProject Telecoms

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Bonjour,

j'ai deux/trois SR et quelques PM(R|Z) dans le coin. Un ou deux 
bâtiments genre « SOCOTEL » pour ceux qui savent. J'ai récupéré leurs 
coordonnées (fichiers KML et GPX) avec MapMarker (Android) J'en aurai 
d'autres.


J'ai aussi besoin qu'on me guide sur «Comment participer » Un tuto, un 
outil ou deux. Des trucs simples même si le problème est complexe.


Jacques, hors de portée d'un PM :(



Le 23/02/2019 à 20:35, François Lacombe a écrit :

Bonsoir à tous

Suite à plusieurs discussions avec des contributeurs intéressés, j'ai 
concentré la plupart des indications pour la carto des sites techniques 
des réseaux télécoms sur une page du wiki

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Telecoms/France

Associée aux pages descriptives de chaque clé, vous y trouverez 
normalement tout ce qu'il faut pour une contribution efficace.


En dehors des propositions qu'il faudra conduire plus tard cette année, 
ces points pourront être ajoutés à la page ultérieurement :
* L'uniformisation de la description des points hauts, et leur 
consolidation sur la base des fichiers opendata de l'ANFR

* L'uniformisation de l'inventaire des datacenters.

Merci par avance si vous souhaitez ajouter les quelques armoires autour 
de chez vous, ou si vous prenez le temps de relever quelques 
incohérences dans la documentation


Bonne soirée

François

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Re: [talk-cz] Administrativní hranice

[majka]

Čechy by měl mít Speirs, má speciální mapu administrativních hranic
, netuším
jestli je tam vše požadované.
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Re: [talk-cz] Administrativní hranice

[Jan Cibulka]

Něco je na GADM: https://gadm.org/data.html

On 25.02.2019 16:42, Lukas Kabrt wrote:

> Zdravím,
>
> máte nějaký tip, na službu, která by poskytovala vyextrahované hranice 
> administrativních celků?
>
> Momentálně potřebuju data pro ČR na úrovni státu (admin-level=3), krajů 
> (admin-level=6) a okresů (admin-level=7), ale do budoucna by se mi hodilo i 
> jiné státy v Evropě a tím pádem i jiné admin-level. Data budu používat pro 
> vykreslování, takže klidně můžou být i nějakým způsobem zjednodušená.
>
> Nic použitelného jsem nenašel a tak, než si začnu hrát s Overpass API nebo se 
> snažit vyextrahovat hranice jinak, se chci zeptat tady … existuje nějaká 
> taková služba, nebo jsem jenom špatně hledal.
>
> Díky, Luk@s

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[talk-cz] Administrativní hranice

[Lukas Kabrt]

Zdravím,

máte nějaký tip, na službu, která by poskytovala vyextrahované hranice
administrativních celků?

Momentálně potřebuju data pro ČR na úrovni státu (admin-level=3), krajů
(admin-level=6) a okresů (admin-level=7), ale do budoucna by se mi hodilo i
jiné státy v Evropě a tím pádem i jiné admin-level. Data budu používat pro
vykreslování, takže klidně můžou být i nějakým způsobem zjednodušená.

Nic použitelného jsem nenašel a tak, než si začnu hrát s Overpass API nebo
se snažit vyextrahovat hranice jinak, se chci zeptat tady … existuje nějaká
taková služba, nebo jsem jenom špatně hledal.

Díky, Luk@s
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] BAN(O): accompagnement des communes

[deuzeffe]

On 25/02/2019 14:43, pepilepi...@ovh.fr wrote:

Le 24/02/2019 à 22:21, deuzeffe a écrit :
Tu te doutes bien que je fais mon maximum pour mettre le plus 
d'adresses/voies dans OSM et que je m'échine à récupérer les données 
auxquelles je n'ai pas accès facilement (non, l'arpentage des 
lotissements n'est pas une solution).


Bin c'est pourtant ce qui a été fait chez moi...


J'ai en fait quelques uns, ceux pour lesquels l'arpentage du cadastre 
n'est pas possible ;) Toujours peur de me faire agresser par un habitant 
qui me prend pour une mal intentionnée (ça m'est déjà arrivé lors du 
projet du mois "Transfo."). Je promènerais bien mes chats, mais je sens 
qu'ils ne vont pas se laisser faire.


Le cadastre, les CR de conseils municipaux (oui, il y a eu une grande 
campagne de renommage pour se conformer aux exigences de la poste) et 
l'adjoint à l'urbanisme pour les noms des rues...


Pile-poil. C'est même ma motivation première : la numérotation/nommage 
des voies a été déclarée indispensable pour le fibrage (bizarrement, 
raccorder les bâtiments au réseau téléphonique ne l'exigeait pas...)


Et un brave retraité qui avait un chien à promener pour situer les 
numéros ! Résultat : ~1880 addr:housenumber. Et OSMAND qui maintenant 
sait vous conduire précisément n'importe où dans le village. ET bien sûr 
une forte publicité de ma part pour OSM auprès de la municipalité !


Ça, c'est déjà fait ;)

Occupation pour le prochain jour de pluie, extraire d'OSM/BANO et 
comparer avec la BAN figée au 28 novembre 2018. Juste pour le fun, parce 
que je sais qui a la plus grosse.

--
deuzeffe

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Re: [Talk-GB] DoBIH Update - Permission Received

[Silent Spike]

Yes I think we could establish which entries are suitable for use (i.e.
those with an entry in the "survey" field of the database) and note this
guideline on the wiki under third party data here
.
Perhaps introduce a standard of tagging "source=DoBIH" where the data has
been used.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 8:29 AM Steven Horner 
wrote:

> I would think it would be the actual surveyed heights and exact locations
> that would be the most use for OSM. Could we not use only the ones that
> have been surveyed in the DoBH data, then this could not be claimed to be
> Ordnance Surveys data.
>
> Regards,
> Steven
>
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 12:14 AM Andy Townsend  wrote:
>
>> On 23/02/2019 23:04, Adam Snape wrote:
>> >
>> > Most of the heights should be derivable from OS Open Data mapping layers
>>
>> ... or from out of copyright OS data.  Hills don't change their height
>> much over a human timescale.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-de] "Küss- und Tschüsszonen" / Elternhaltestellen

[chris66]

Am 24.02.2019 um 22:50 schrieb Christoph Grenz:


bei mir in der Umgebung gibt es in der Nähe von einigen Schulen inzwischen
sogenannte „Küss- und Tschüsszonen“ bzw „Elternhaltestellen“ mit Markierungen
und Schildern, die Halten zum Abliefern von Schulkindern aber kein Parken
erlauben. Gibt es dafür schon ein Tagging-Schema?


Nennt man das nicht "Helikopter-Eltern" ?

Somit: aeroway=helipad.

Chris :-)




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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] BAN(O): accompagnement des communes

[Vincent Bergeot]

Le 25/02/2019 à 10:58, Rpnpif a écrit :

Le 24 février 2019, deuzeffe a écrit :

Tu te doutes bien que je fais mon maximum pour mettre le plus
d'adresses/voies dans OSM et que je m'échine à récupérer les données
auxquelles je n'ai pas accès facilement (non, l'arpentage des
lotissements n'est pas une solution).


Si quelqu'un veux un autre format, il peut convertir depuis bano.

Franchement, tu me vois leur dire ça ? Déjà que je ne comprends pas ce
que tu racontes, hein ;)

Bref, je risque de vous embêter longtemps avec cette histoire.

Bonjour,

À mon avis, il y a encore plus simple vu la faible compétence en
informatique de beaucoup (la plupart ?) d'acteurs municipaux surtout
dans les petites communes ou communautés.

Ce serait de leur faire une page sous forme de formulaire dont les
champs seraient conformes au format souhaité pour la BAN (ou après
conversion), si possible avec validation immédiate.

Pour les coordonnées, le plus simple serait de leur présenter une carte
OSM ou/et une image BDOrtho afin qu'ils cliquent sur le lieu en
question.
Et en rêvant, avec mise à jour d'OSM en même temps.
Donc, une sorte d'ID spécifique mais plus simple.

Avis aux développeurs... libres ;).



Pour les numéros de rue existants et pour en ajouter dans OSM : 
https://www.mapcontrib.xyz/t/f0690c-numeros_de_rue#


fait rapidement et sans doute à améliorer. Ici centré sur le plus beau 
village de France, mais on peut dupliquer facilement sur les autres plus 
beaux villages de france et de Navarre, ou ce servir de ce thème, il 
n'est pas bloqué sur un lieu.


Et si le numéro (addr:housenumber) fait partie d'une relation (exemple 
la rue !!!) alors c'est affiché. MapContrib ne permet pas d'ajouter le 
numéro dans la relation.


Pour les autres champs, je n'ai pas cherché mais avec mapcontrib ils 
peuvent être enregistré en dehors d'OSM.


à plus

--
Vincent Bergeot


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Re: [Talk-GB] BT phoneboxes

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

Hi

disused:amenity=telephone

Many that have already been decommissioned are being reused:

Filled with flowers:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5281048654.

Tagged similar to above for emergency=defibrillator & 
amenity=public_bookcase



Cheers
DaveF


On 25/02/2019 09:47, Jez Nicholson wrote:
Going back to this January discussion, has anyone tagged a kiosk/pod 
yet? what would you tag it if it isn't a 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dtelephone any more?


On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 11:56 PM Adam Snape > wrote:


On 4 January 2018 at 17:26, Andrew Black
mailto:andrewdbl...@googlemail.com>>
wrote:

Do we know what a proportion are going to be left.  Is it
going to be close to none.


About half: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40934210
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[Talk-GB] Manchester event Tues 26 Feb 2019

[Jez Nicholson]

Open Data Manchester are holding "Mapping Your World - a beginner's guide
to using OpenStreetMap" tomorrow night. If you are in the area then it
might be beneficial to drop in and meet some new mappers.
http://www.bit.ly/ODM-OSM2

- Jez
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] BAN(O): accompagnement des communes

[pepilepi...@ovh.fr]

Le 24/02/2019 à 22:21, deuzeffe a écrit :
> On 24/02/2019 17:53, marc marc wrote:
>> Le 24.02.19 à 13:31, deuzeffe a écrit :
>>> Je viens de lire la spécification du format d'échange, pas très simple
>>
>> Le plus simple pour une mini structure n'est-il de
>> les mettre dans osm, ce qui les injectera dans bano ?
>
> Tu te doutes bien que je fais mon maximum pour mettre le plus
> d'adresses/voies dans OSM et que je m'échine à récupérer les données
> auxquelles je n'ai pas accès facilement (non, l'arpentage des
> lotissements n'est pas une solution).

Bin c'est pourtant ce qui a été fait chez moi...

Le cadastre, les CR de conseils municipaux (oui, il y a eu une grande
campagne de renommage pour se conformer aux exigences de la poste) et
l'adjoint à l'urbanisme pour les noms des rues...

Et un brave retraité qui avait un chien à promener pour situer les
numéros ! Résultat : ~1880 addr:housenumber. Et OSMAND qui maintenant
sait vous conduire précisément n'importe où dans le village. ET bien sûr
une forte publicité de ma part pour OSM auprès de la municipalité !

J'ai encore quelques soucis mais ils feront l'objet d'une autre question.

Bonne journée,

Jean-Pierre

>
>> Si quelqu'un veux un autre format, il peut convertir depuis bano.
>
> Franchement, tu me vois leur dire ça ? Déjà que je ne comprends pas ce
> que tu racontes, hein ;)
>
> Bref, je risque de vous embêter longtemps avec cette histoire.


-- 


Si ma réponse n'a pas résolu ton problème, c'est que tu n'as pas posé la
bonne question


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Re: [OSM-talk] Bot edits on the OSM wiki

[Andy Townsend]

On 25/02/2019 09:37, Christoph Hormann wrote:
... There are several ethical concerns that motivate me here - the one 
that

is easiest to understand is probably that allowing bots would create a
two class system within the OSM community on the wiki - those who are
able to develop and run bots would form a ruling class while the rest
would be subject to this rule whether they agree with it or not.  And
for this to happen bots would not need to be used on a regular basis,
the mere possibility of this creates the hierarchy between those who
can and those who cannot.


As an aside from the discussion about bots, we already have a 
distinction between "those are are familiar with wikimedia concepts, and 
think that all users should be too" and "those who just want to document 
stuff".  Unfortunately some of those in the former category had to be 
stopped from editing because they were effectively stopping anyone in 
the latter category from doing anything at all, and unfortunately some 
of the effects are still there.  I remember that I gave up on 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Derbyshire=history 
back in 2017 when one particular wiki elf insisted I was "doing it wrong".


However a number of areas have been much improved since their departure 
- https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_guide doesn't suffer 
from "categoryitis" that it used to before, for example.  Another 
example of a much improved area is 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android - there's still a link to 
the category but an explanation saying what it is!


There are still some example of "don't edit this" pages - 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Place is one such (but as 
it's a template that's understandable).


Part of the problem we had with "problem users" above was that they 
effectively acted like bots; they didn't think about how other people 
worked with the data (both creators and consumers). This could be a 
problem with bot edits too, but only if the bot creator doesn't think 
about other people.  The tricky bit with wiki edits is summarising the 
status quo while also reflecting the various conflicting points of view 
- any bot that is used to "force" it's authors view on others would be a 
problem.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: [V-IOLA] On-Line Support - ACTIVATION REQUEST

[Alessandro Palmas]

Il 23/02/19 20:43, Alessandro Palmas ha scritto:

Salve lista,
martedì e mercoledi prossimi ci sarà un'attivazione di TEST (NON È UNA 
REALE EMERGENZA) per volontari remoti.
L'area interessata sarà quella di Sutomore in Montenegro 
https://osm.org/go/xefVK7Xg-


Vista la mancanza di coordinatori OSM sul posto devo ancora verificare 
quale sarà l'interfaccia locale e quali caratteristiche da mappare ci 
saranno richieste.

Appena avrò aggiornamenti (presumibilmente lunedì verso metà giornata).

A presto
  Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT



Eccoci,

al momento non sono ancora arrivate richieste particolari. Ho attivato 
il task nella zona di Sutomore

http://alezena.no-ip.biz/project/7
per ora mappiamo gli edifici ed eventuali strade. Se domattina 
arriveranno richieste ve le inoltrerò immediatamente.


Grazie per la collaborazione

  Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT

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Re: [Talk-GB] BT phoneboxes

[Andy Townsend]

On 25/02/2019 10:09, Brian Prangle wrote:
I've tagged a couple with amenity=telephone, advertising=screen, 
wifi=free, device_charging=usb, operator=InLink BT



If those take off I'll try and add another telephone variant to 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/maps/map/map.html#zoom=17=-25.005025=135.17718 
(not a "red box" one - some kind of variant of a standard phone).


I suspect the reason why they're not at 
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/amenity=telephone#combinations 
is that that only shows the most common combinations.


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [OSM-talk] Bot edits on the OSM wiki

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 25 February 2019, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> But: If you engage in the collaborative writing of a document with
> others, and one of them decides to replace all occurrences of "Open
> Source Software" with "Free and Open Source Software" (for example),
> by using a search-and-replace mechanism in the chosen editing
> platform, would you also object to that?

I would not think very highly of someone who makes such a change on the 
OSM wiki (in a "don't you have anything better to do" kind of way) and 
if someone does this sequentially on a large number of pages i would 
probably ask them to stop.

> And then further, assuming your answer is "well that's ok if the edit
> makes sense", what if Mediawiki had a global search-and-replace
> function, where you click on a button, and fill in a form. Would this
> also make you disengage from the platform altogehter?

For the purpose of collaborative documentation and communication in OSM 
and without any possibility to opt out of the global search-and-replace 
for contributors: Yes.

> From there, it's only a small step to "bot edits", they're basically
> nothing else than a global search-and-replace, it's just the way the
> Mediawiki software is built that people use the "bot API" for things
> like this.

I know.  Mediawiki is not primarily written for use as the basis of the 
OSM wiki so obviously not every function it offers makes sense in that 
context.

> You mention a potential "two class system" but frankly, does this not
> already exist, with one class being those who understand and use
> templates to the full extent of their capabilities, and the other
> class not daring to touch them? [...]

I see templates rather critically because they can - as you said - be 
used for very similar things as bot, by editing a template you can 
mechanically modify all the pages that make use of the template.  And 
widely used templates (in particular for example 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:ValueDescription) have 
been used in this fashion in the past.

Where templates have a useful purpose on the OSM wiki are IMO three 
things

* providing some standardized formatting for things (like tag and key 
templates)
* providing a mechanism and some verification to record structured data 
on the wiki which is otherwise without a firm structure.
* integrating external sources of information in the wiki (like taginfo 
stuff).

The important thing is to keep these clearly separated, limit use of 
templates to these things and not allow sneaking in of mechanisms of 
algorithmic control of human contributions into it.

But the fundamental difference is that templates can only be used to 
manipulate content within a template.  So i can when contributing to 
the wiki opt out of templates by deliberately contributing outside of 
templates only.

> I think it would benefit the wiki if we stopped allowing everyone to
> pursue their personal hobby horses - wit recent motorcycle stuff, or
> wikidata features added, or a lot of verdy_p's work - and request
> that more discussion happens before edits are made.

Yes, in a lot of ways the wiki is currently not serving its purpose very 
well because it is often used to pursue personal interests on their own 
and not for what it is primarily meant for, namely for documenting and 
communicating about mapping in OSM.

But i don't think that bots could in any way help with this problem, on 
the contrary, they create additional means with extended power for 
people to pursue their personal interests and would likely aggrevate 
the problem rather than solving it.


-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky a turistické trasy, jejich (ne)aktuálnost

[Tom Ka]

ne 24. 2. 2019 v 10:40 odesílatel Miroslav Suchý  napsal:
>
> Dne 23. 02. 19 v 19:11 majka napsal(a):
> > Co s tím správně? Označit hned fotky rozcestníků za neaktuální, tedy je
> > vypnout? Konkrétně v tom druhém případě to bude rozcestník Vidov
> > , přibyla tam značená žlutá +
> > bude chybět rozcestník Nedabyle.
>
> Napadaji me dve moznosti:
>
> 1) OSM Notes
>
> 2) V taskmanu invalidovat prislusny ctverec a napsat tam poznamku, ze v
> brzke dobe to bude predelano a nasledujicih mesicih je to treba znovu
> projit.

Ahoj, za mne:

OSM notes asi neuskodi, ale 2 je podle mne lepsi reseni.

Jinak ve Fody pokud vim, ze je neaktualni, tak dat disable s patricnym
komentarem, ale nema smysl dat disable pokud je realita jeste jako na
posledni dostupne fotce, jinak to nekdo nafoti driv, nez se to
predela. Kazdopadne presne pro tohle tam to disable je a proto se to
da jednoduse vratit, kdyz se zjisti, ze to byla chyba.

Jinak v OSM datech fixme=resurvey urcite taky pomuze.

Jinak na OSM wiki jsou rizne seznamy, co kde chybi a je potreba
zkontrolovat/upravit apod, ale mam pocit, ze to neni vyuzivano
globalne a systematicky, takze realny prinos je pak trochu
diskutabilni.

Bye

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Re: [talk-cz] logo komunity OSM CZ a logo spolku OSM CR

[Tom Ka]

ne 24. 2. 2019 v 18:55 odesílatel majka  napsal:
> Co tohle, jako česká zjednodušená varianta? To by mohlo fungovat i pokud 
> budeme někde chtít použít logo v opravdu malé velikosti, případně ho tisknout 
> na černobílé tiskárně. Jde to ještě o kus zjednodušit, ta "vlajka" má v obou 
> přiložených variantách nastavené rozostření pro lepší vzhled na obrazovce. 
> Pak bychom byli na šesti barvách, a ta šedá varianta se dá zredukovat na 
> čtyři barvy.
>
> Zkoušela jsem i černobílou variantu (razítko), a je také proveditelná.

Ahoj,

za mne dobry, asi bych udelal i vlajku ostre, pusobi na mne spis
rusive, kdyz je zbytek ostry.

Vim, ze to chces asi dotahnout kvuli tem svym podkladum, ale dejme
tomu prosim jeste cas. Zkusim to pripomenout i ve weekly, ale rad bych
aby meli vsichni moznost se ozvat, nerad bych to za 1/2 roku
predelaval, to je lepsi dat tomu trochu casu navic.

Kazdopadne zatim je to 10 hlasu pro stejne logo komunity i spolku,
pokud nekdo ma jiny nazor, ozvete se prosim!

Diky

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] BAN(O): accompagnement des communes

[Magalie Dartus]

Bonjour à tous,

Votre discussion est très exactement dans mes problématiques pro du moment
:-D

Je suis consultante open data (Datactivist) et actuellement en prestation
au CD31 pour accompagner les collectivités de Haute-Garonne à ouvrir leurs
données.
Le but est de suivre les prérogatives d'Open Data France et donc d'ouvrir
en priorité le SCDL... donc la BAL
Nous avons actuellement un outil de saisie des données standardisées en
cours d'expérimentation. Pour les détails c'est ici
https://teamopendata.org/t/champ-libre-collecte-ouvrir-des-donnees-standardisees/909

Il n'y a pas encore de formulaire de saisie pour la BAL car il reste encore
pas mal de questions :
- doit-on faire un extract de la BAN pour chaque collectivité et qu'ensuite
elle s'occupe de vérifier manuellement les adresses et les coordonnées géo
- le géocodage n'est pas hyper performant de manière générale, du coup les
collectivités doivent-elles faire les vérifications en clic bouton adresse
par adresse (on me répond que les stagiaires ça sert à ça... les pauvres...)
- faire un extract de la BANO est une très bonne idée sauf que la licence
est Odbl et que la licence choisie par le CD31 est la LO/OL (pas moyen de
négocier ça)

Du coup le problème principal est celui de la licence.
Est-ce que vous avez des idées par rapport à cela?

Je vais voir si on peut intégrer un lien avec OSM dans l'outil de saisie de
données quand le formulaire pour la BAL sera en création.

Magalie


Le lun. 25 févr. 2019 à 11:00, Rpnpif  a écrit :

> Le 24 février 2019, deuzeffe a écrit :
> > Tu te doutes bien que je fais mon maximum pour mettre le plus
> > d'adresses/voies dans OSM et que je m'échine à récupérer les données
> > auxquelles je n'ai pas accès facilement (non, l'arpentage des
> > lotissements n'est pas une solution).
> >
> > > Si quelqu'un veux un autre format, il peut convertir depuis bano.
> >
> > Franchement, tu me vois leur dire ça ? Déjà que je ne comprends pas ce
> > que tu racontes, hein ;)
> >
> > Bref, je risque de vous embêter longtemps avec cette histoire.
>
> Bonjour,
>
> À mon avis, il y a encore plus simple vu la faible compétence en
> informatique de beaucoup (la plupart ?) d'acteurs municipaux surtout
> dans les petites communes ou communautés.
>
> Ce serait de leur faire une page sous forme de formulaire dont les
> champs seraient conformes au format souhaité pour la BAN (ou après
> conversion), si possible avec validation immédiate.
>
> Pour les coordonnées, le plus simple serait de leur présenter une carte
> OSM ou/et une image BDOrtho afin qu'ils cliquent sur le lieu en
> question.
> Et en rêvant, avec mise à jour d'OSM en même temps.
> Donc, une sorte d'ID spécifique mais plus simple.
>
> Avis aux développeurs... libres ;).
> --
> Alain Rpnpif
>
>
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[Talk-pt] DESAFIO MENSAL - Açores 1

[Nuno Caldeira]

Já começou outro desafio mensal. Desta vez começamos pelo grupo ocidental
do arquipélago dos Açores. Nota que é necessário ajustar as imagens de
satélite antes de editar.

DESAFIO MENSAL - Açores 1: Adicionar Edificios e estradas em falta
https://tarefas.openstreetmap.pt/project/3

Tutorial como adicionar edificado no JOSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tELDooPvJ0s=124s
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Re: [Talk-de] B96n teilweise freigegeben, Cache TTL

[Hartmut Holzgraefe]

On 25.02.19 10:49, Viktor via Talk-de wrote:

> - Sind Wildbrücken unsichtbare Objekte?

sieht so aus, zumindest in den Mapnik-Kartenstilen deren Quellcode
öffentlich verfügbar ist finde ich in keinem davon Regeln in denen
"wildlife_crossing", oder überhaupt "wildlife" zu finden wäre.

Auch auf der Taginfo Seite dazu finden sich unter "Projekts" nur
Projekte, die allgemein "mam_made=*" auswerten, aber nicht
konkret "man_made=wildlife_crossing":


https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/man_made=wildlife_crossing#projects


Bei bisher nur etwas über 600 Einträgen weltweit scheint das
Interesse noch nicht groß genug zu sein.

PS: ich muss auch zugeben, dass ich keine Idee habe wie man
so etwas überhaupt optisch darstellen sollte (also
zusätzlich zu tunnel/bridge und forrest/scrub/grass ...)

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Re: [Talk-it] Hotel con servizi -> opening_hours

[Damjan Gerl]

Mi attacco a questo thread per chiedere delucidazioni per l'opening_hours che 
vedo usato su vari hotel aggiunti negli ultimi giorni:
viene usato opening_hours=Jan 01 - Dec 31

il che non mi convince, ma forse sbaglio. Io ad occhio userei opening_hours=24/7

Cosa ne pensate?

Damjan

-- Original Header ---

From  : "Martin Koppenhoefer" dieterdre...@gmail.com
To  : "openstreetmap list - italiano" talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Cc  : 
Date  : Mon, 25 Feb 2019 10:14:10 +0100
Subject : Re: [Talk-it] Hotel con servizi

> Am Mo., 25. Feb. 2019 um 10:05 Uhr schrieb Cascafico Giovanni <
> cascaf...@gmail.com>:
> 
> > Come posso etichettare un hotel (o qualsiasi altra roba) che permette
> > animali domestici ed ha un servizio di babysitting?
> >
> > Pensavo ai seguenti...
> >
> > tourism=hotel
> > pets=yes
> > childcare=yes
> >
> 
> 
> non mi convince "pets=yes", perché non è chiaro, troppo generico (come
> taggheresti un albergo per animali?) La risposta alla mia domanda si trova
> qui: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Animals
> Alla tua purtroppo no (se non vedo male), ho aggiunto un commento su "talk".
> 
> Ciao,
> Martin
> 

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[OSM-talk-fr] Conférence : 5000km à vélo avec OSM à travers l'Amérique du Sud, Alban Vivert à Pau et Bordeaux

[Delphine Montagne]

Bonjour,

Vous avez peut-être soutenu son projet sur KissKissBankBank, suivi son
expédition sur les réseaux sociaux, écouté la présentation de son projet au
dernier SOTM : Alban Vivert a parcouru 5 000km à vélo entre la Colombie,
l’Équateur et le Pérou avec dans sa sacoche OSM et Mapillary. Il est à
présent revenu sur le sol français riche de son expérience et le
laboratoire Passages l'accueille sur ses deux sites, Pau et Pessac, pour
deux événements publics :

*Jeudi 7 mars - Pau* : 18h30 : conférence publique à l’amphi 400 Droit
Économie Gestion de l'Université de Pau et des Pays de l'Adour.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/44523564

*Vendredi 8 mars - Pessac : *14h : séminaire "Passages en communs"
Amphithéâtre de la Maison des Suds.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/226888023

Tous les détails de son expédition dans le Sud-ouest :
http://www.passages.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article667

En espérant vous y voir nombreux et nombreuses,

Bien cordialement,

-- 
Delphine Montagne
Ingénieure d'études

[image: image.jpeg]

Collège Sciences Sociales et Humanités
Laboratoire de sciences humaines Passages - UMR 5319
Institut Claude Laugénie - Avenue du Doyen Poplawski - 64000 Pau
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bot edits on the OSM wiki

[Frederik Ramm]

Christoph,

you recognize yourself that your position is a bit extreme about this.

Personally, I have an issue with Wikipedia which, at least in some
less-frequently visited corners of the project, often looks more like a
bot playground than a collaborative project by humans. This negative
impression (page last edited by a human a year ago, and after that, 10
edits by bots) also informs my skepticism towards mechanical edits in OSM.

But: If you engage in the collaborative writing of a document with
others, and one of them decides to replace all occurrences of "Open
Source Software" with "Free and Open Source Software" (for example), by
using a search-and-replace mechanism in the chosen editing platform,
would you also object to that?

And then further, assuming your answer is "well that's ok if the edit
makes sense", what if Mediawiki had a global search-and-replace
function, where you click on a button, and fill in a form. Would this
also make you disengage from the platform altogehter?

From there, it's only a small step to "bot edits", they're basically
nothing else than a global search-and-replace, it's just the way the
Mediawiki software is built that people use the "bot API" for things
like this.

You mention a potential "two class system" but frankly, does this not
already exist, with one class being those who understand and use
templates to the full extent of their capabilities, and the other class
not daring to touch them?

I think that "bot edits" should certainly be discussed and controlled,
and not be used to unilaterally introduce features that one person
likes, but many of the same effects of bot edits can even today be
achieved by making changes to templates - you can change the appearence
of 100s of pages with a little templating magic.

I don't really understand how you can be fundamentally opposed to one
and accept the other.

I think it would benefit the wiki if we stopped allowing everyone to
pursue their personal hobby horses - wit recent motorcycle stuff, or
wikidata features added, or a lot of verdy_p's work - and request that
more discussion happens before edits are made.

But I don't think that "bot or not bot" is the big question.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bot edits on the OSM wiki

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> Now the question if aristocratic governance would be beneficial for the
> OSM wiki compared to the anarchy we currently have more or less is
> something i would be open to discuss.  But basing membership in the
> aristocratic class on the technical ability to develop and run bots is
> quite obviously a bad idea.

Being able to code need not result to a rise in an aristocratic wiki class.
While I know that some people here do not want the OSM community to emulate
some practices in the Wikipedia community, I would argue that Wikipedia's
policy of only allowing wiki bots to run with explicit approval and for
very specific tasks is something we should consider. This gives the power
back to the community to decide when and where wiki bots are allowed to
operate.

We already have this practice on the main OSM database itself with the
Automated Edits code of conduct and the Import Guidelines.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bot edits on the OSM wiki

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 25 February 2019, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote:
>
> If that is an essential concern for you, I have bad news about the
> Openstreetmap database...
>
> Robots are not sovereign entities: they are puppets to humans and
> therefore bound to human rules, to which supplementary restrictions
> are added to compensate for their large-scale effect. Therefore, the
> authors of automation have greater power to realize their vision -
> but they remain under political control... Works pretty fine for our
> map, doesn't it ?

Sigh.

I suppose that it was inevitable that someone would equate the OSM 
database with the OSM wiki in this discussion.

A lot could be said about the differences here but i hope we can 
simplify this to 'apples and peaches' and therefore not a meaningful 
comparison.

Needless to say that a bot edit on the OSM database comparable to the 
one on the wiki that motivated me to start this thread would very 
likely never have found approval from the community.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-GB] BT phoneboxes

[Brian Prangle]

Hi Jez

I've tagged a couple with amenity=telephone,  advertising=screen,
wifi=free, device_charging=usb, operator=InLink BT

Regards

Brian

On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 at 09:48, Jez Nicholson  wrote:

> Going back to this January discussion, has anyone tagged a kiosk/pod yet?
> what would you tag it if it isn't a
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dtelephone any more?
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 11:56 PM Adam Snape  wrote:
>
>> On 4 January 2018 at 17:26, Andrew Black 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Do we know what a proportion are going to be left.  Is it going to be
>>> close to none.
>>>
>>
>> About half: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40934210
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bot edits on the OSM wiki

[Jean-Marc Liotier]

On 2/25/19 10:37 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote:

There are several ethical concerns that motivate me here - the one that
is easiest to understand is probably that allowing bots would create a
two class system within the OSM community on the wiki - those who are
able to develop and run bots would form a ruling class while the rest
would be subject to this rule whether they agree with it or not. [..]


If that is an essential concern for you, I have bad news about the 
Openstreetmap database...


Robots are not sovereign entities: they are puppets to humans and 
therefore bound to human rules, to which supplementary restrictions are 
added to compensate for their large-scale effect. Therefore, the authors 
of automation have greater power to realize their vision - but they 
remain under political control... Works pretty fine for our map, doesn't 
it ?



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] BAN(O): accompagnement des communes

[Rpnpif]

Le 24 février 2019, deuzeffe a écrit :
> Tu te doutes bien que je fais mon maximum pour mettre le plus 
> d'adresses/voies dans OSM et que je m'échine à récupérer les données 
> auxquelles je n'ai pas accès facilement (non, l'arpentage des 
> lotissements n'est pas une solution).
> 
> > Si quelqu'un veux un autre format, il peut convertir depuis bano.  
> 
> Franchement, tu me vois leur dire ça ? Déjà que je ne comprends pas ce 
> que tu racontes, hein ;)
> 
> Bref, je risque de vous embêter longtemps avec cette histoire.

Bonjour,

À mon avis, il y a encore plus simple vu la faible compétence en
informatique de beaucoup (la plupart ?) d'acteurs municipaux surtout
dans les petites communes ou communautés.

Ce serait de leur faire une page sous forme de formulaire dont les
champs seraient conformes au format souhaité pour la BAN (ou après
conversion), si possible avec validation immédiate.

Pour les coordonnées, le plus simple serait de leur présenter une carte
OSM ou/et une image BDOrtho afin qu'ils cliquent sur le lieu en
question.
Et en rêvant, avec mise à jour d'OSM en même temps.
Donc, une sorte d'ID spécifique mais plus simple.

Avis aux développeurs... libres ;).
-- 
Alain Rpnpif


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[Talk-de] B96n teilweise freigegeben, Cache TTL

[Viktor via Talk-de]

Moin,

letzte Woche wurde auf der Insel Rügen ein Teilstück der B96n 
freigegeben. [1] Da die Streckenführung schon lange Zeit vor dem 
eigentlichen Bau in OSM eingezeichnet war, gestaltete sich die Freigabe 
auf der Karte einfach. [2] Hintergrund ist, dass für die finale 
Freigabe, die im Sommer stattfinden soll, noch einmal an der bisherigen 
Straße gebaut wird (Sperrung) und somit für beide Straßen besondere 
Bedingungen gelten.


Diese umfassen u.a.:
- momentane Sperrung der alten B96
- einseitige Befahrung der B96n (später: dreispurig mit Wechselspur)
- Tempolimit 70 km/h statt 100 km/h
- Überführung an der im Bau befindlichen Wildbrücke auf eine 
Baustellenumfahrung auf der alten B96


Weiterhin werden später einige Abschnitte der alten B96 umgelegt und neu 
angebunden (Bahnübergang entfällt und wird an den Kreisverkehr 
angebunden). Einige der Änderungen habe ich bereits eingearbeitet. [3]


Allerdings stellen sich für mich die Fragen:

- Wie geht ihr mit temporären Sperrungen und "offiziellen Eröffnungen 
nach Freigabe" um?
- Wie lassen sich temporäre Beschränkungen (Spur, Höchstgeschwindigkeit) 
einarbeiten?

- Sind Wildbrücken unsichtbare Objekte?

Darüberhinaus interessiert mich, wie lange die Tiles, insbesondere bei 
niedrigeren Zoomstufen im Cache liegen. Schaue ich mir ganz Rügen auf 
der Karte an, sind die nun eine Woche alten Änderungen noch nicht 
ersichtlich.


Viele Grüße
Viktor

[1] 
http://www.ostsee-zeitung.de/Vorpommern/Ruegen/Freie-Fahrt-auf-neuem-Teilstueck-der-B96n-auf-Ruegen

[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/67286153
[3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/67369594

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Re: [Talk-GB] BT phoneboxes

[Jez Nicholson]

Going back to this January discussion, has anyone tagged a kiosk/pod yet?
what would you tag it if it isn't a
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dtelephone any more?

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 11:56 PM Adam Snape  wrote:

> On 4 January 2018 at 17:26, Andrew Black 
> wrote:
>
>> Do we know what a proportion are going to be left.  Is it going to be
>> close to none.
>>
>
> About half: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40934210
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bot edits on the OSM wiki

[Christoph Hormann]

On Monday 25 February 2019, Tobias Knerr wrote:
>
> For the benefit of people who don't know the background, it's worth
> mentioning that these bot edits did not distort the actual meaning of
> the wiki pages, but were purely performing a trivial technical
> maintenance task.

Yes, the defense of these edits based on their merit was expected.  I am 
completely fine with you or others approving bot edits based on this 
argument.  But i also pointed out already that for me this is not a 
significant argument in this case.  I will simply not engage in 
cooperative writing of documentation and communication if i have to 
accept that bots are free to edit what i wrote - even if that is just 
fixing obvious typos or similar things.

If there is need for a platform for bot curated content in OSM that 
should be separated from where humans engage in cooperative writing and 
communication.

I am also completely at ease if the majority of the OSM community wants 
to embrace bots on the OSM wiki.  It would just not be a platform for 
me any more then.

There are several ethical concerns that motivate me here - the one that 
is easiest to understand is probably that allowing bots would create a 
two class system within the OSM community on the wiki - those who are 
able to develop and run bots would form a ruling class while the rest 
would be subject to this rule whether they agree with it or not.  And 
for this to happen bots would not need to be used on a regular basis, 
the mere possibility of this creates the hierarchy between those who 
can and those who cannot.

Now the question if aristocratic governance would be beneficial for the 
OSM wiki compared to the anarchy we currently have more or less is 
something i would be open to discuss.  But basing membership in the 
aristocratic class on the technical ability to develop and run bots is 
quite obviously a bad idea.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky a turistické trasy, jejich (ne)aktuálnost

[Martin Ždila]

On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 7:12 PM majka  wrote:

> Máme vymyšlený systém, jak označit, že se změnila situace a je třeba znovu
> projít turistickou trasu (a vyfotit rozcestníky)?
>
Mozno na inspiraciu, v ramci Freemap.sk toto pracovne evidujeme na
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/nezmapovana-turistika-freemap-slovakia_58872
A pre cyklo mame
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/nezmapovana-cyklistika-freemap-slovakia_95322

-- 
Martin Ždila 
OZ Freemap Slovakia
tel:+421-908-363-848
mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk
http://www.freemap.sk/
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Re: [talk-cz] Rozcestníky a turistické trasy, jejich (ne)aktuálnost

[Tomas Novotny]

Ahoj,

On Sun, 24 Feb 2019 10:39:48 +0100
Miroslav Suchý  wrote:

> Dne 23. 02. 19 v 19:11 majka napsal(a):
> > Co s tím správně? Označit hned fotky rozcestníků za neaktuální, tedy je
> > vypnout? Konkrétně v tom druhém případě to bude rozcestník Vidov
> > , přibyla tam značená žlutá +
> > bude chybět rozcestník Nedabyle.  
> 
> Napadaji me dve moznosti:
> 
> 1) OSM Notes
> 
> 2) V taskmanu invalidovat prislusny ctverec a napsat tam poznamku, ze v
> brzke dobe to bude predelano a nasledujicih mesicih je to treba znovu
> projit.

presne tuhle kombinaci pouzivam. I s tim, ze to pak mame 2x.

T.

> Mirek
> 
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Re: [Talk-it] Hotel con servizi

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 25. Feb. 2019 um 10:05 Uhr schrieb Cascafico Giovanni <
cascaf...@gmail.com>:

> Come posso etichettare un hotel (o qualsiasi altra roba) che permette
> animali domestici ed ha un servizio di babysitting?
>
> Pensavo ai seguenti...
>
> tourism=hotel
> pets=yes
> childcare=yes
>


non mi convince "pets=yes", perché non è chiaro, troppo generico (come
taggheresti un albergo per animali?) La risposta alla mia domanda si trova
qui: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Animals
Alla tua purtroppo no (se non vedo male), ho aggiunto un commento su "talk".

Ciao,
Martin
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[Talk-it] Hotel con servizi

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Come posso etichettare un hotel (o qualsiasi altra roba) che permette
animali domestici ed ha un servizio di babysitting?

Pensavo ai seguenti...

tourism=hotel
pets=yes
childcare=yes

Ho trovato un dataset della Regione FVG e ci sono diversi altri tag che
intendo includere: se volete dargli un'occhiata qui [1] trovate la umap per
l'importazione manuale;


[1] https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/turismo-fvg_295722
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Re: [Talk-GB] DoBIH Update - Permission Received

[Steven Horner]

I would think it would be the actual surveyed heights and exact locations
that would be the most use for OSM. Could we not use only the ones that
have been surveyed in the DoBH data, then this could not be claimed to be
Ordnance Surveys data.

Regards,
Steven

On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 12:14 AM Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 23/02/2019 23:04, Adam Snape wrote:
> >
> > Most of the heights should be derivable from OS Open Data mapping layers
>
> ... or from out of copyright OS data.  Hills don't change their height
> much over a human timescale.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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