Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Andy Townsend wrote: > > It's a building that is a closed way, but only just. How can I offer to > help that mapper do what they are trying to do better? All the changeset > comment says is "#MissingMaps #hotosm-project-1254 Lubumbashi, Congo

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi, Am 19. November 2015 01:52:40 MEZ, schrieb john whelan : > HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a simpler > more > standardized approach. HOT uses the OSM database/platform and therefore it has to adapt and follow OSM's rules. Nobody forces

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

HOT uses the OSM database/platform and therefore it has to adapt and follow OSM's rules. Nobody forces you to use OSM. Why don't you do something like OpenHistoricalMap and use your own database basrd on OSM software? There are no rules for changeset comments. They are an optional feature, the

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Thursday 19 November 2015, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC) > #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek > > This is *not* useful. But to be fair this is not only the fault of the mappers but also of the HOT project managers since they specifically instruct

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi On 19/11/15 09:18, Michael Reichert wrote: Hi, Am 19. November 2015 01:52:40 MEZ, schrieb john whelan : HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a simpler more standardized approach. HOT uses the OSM database/platform and therefore it has to

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

2015-11-19 4:57 GMT+01:00 Kate Chapman : > I fail to see how machine readable hashtags are "not useful". They allow > statistical analysis which can be used to inform future recruitment and > other activities. they are not very useful for other mappers who try to understand

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

> > > Worse, I see many HOT changesets that have source=Bing in the > changeset comment instead of a separate tag. > > Although... Does iD allow setting changeset tags? The ID Editor doesn't seem to support other changeset tags. JOSM supports as much changeset tags as you like, but you have to

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 6:52 PM, john whelan wrote: > Or are we now asking that all mappers on OSM have to be able to read and > write in English since that is the normal language for communication in OSM > or is one of the local African languages sufficient. If it is

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

El 19 nov 2015, a las 06:54, Christian Pietzsch escribió: >> >> Worse, I see many HOT changesets that have source=Bing in the >> changeset comment instead of a separate tag. >> >> Although... Does iD allow setting changeset tags? > > The ID Editor doesn't seem

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

These changesets are way more useful than most. You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the mapping activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who validates, what mappers contributed and so on. That doesn't mean things couldn't be better. Maybe moving some

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

HOT eases people into OSM and gives them an easily understood purpose to begin mapping. Some HOTties go on to be power OSMers outside of HOT; some never step away from HOT. Both reflect individual preferences, not any isolating tendency by HOT. HOT tries to build communities and encourages

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Jolly good show Fairhurst. Second that motion. Chinner. -Original Message- From: Richard Fairhurst [mailto:rich...@systemed.net] Sent: 19 November 2015 15:02 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Indeed, and bringing this back from a meta-discussion to the practical matters at hand- there are extremely good reasons for human readable changeset comments, and good (and easy) ways to approach encouraging them. The reasons for them are clear- to facilitate the meta-mapping operation- the idea

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

"On the other hand you can't deny that HOT is in some ways self defeatingsince it isolates lots of people from the whole of OSM and the nitty grity parts." Fully denied. There are many facets to OSM, we are all, I hope, working to provide ways to integrate them.   * Mikel Maron * +14152835207

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

2015-11-19 7:54 GMT-03:00 Mikel Maron : > ps For the Argentinian case, has anyone asked the local community there to > reach out? I'm sure they would be able to help them get on the right track. I am in the local community. It took us months to track down where this flood

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi friends I'm mining a few actionable nuggets from this discussion. * Document (or link to documentation) on how the OSMTM works in the wiki, including structure of changeset comments.* Update guidance to encourage mappers to add their own insights in changeset comments* Share more the

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi, On 11/19/2015 11:16 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: > You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the > mapping activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who > validates, what mappers contributed and so on. I doubt that most OSMers would even know which tasking

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:52:40 -0500 john whelan wrote: > HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a > simpler more standardized approach. Many of their volunteers often > do not know enough English to write a meaningful change set comment. In that case

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On 19/11/2015 10:16, Ben Abelshausen wrote: You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the mapping activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who validates, what mappers contributed and so on. Can you please explain where any of that is documented within

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

> El 19 nov 2015, a las 07:16, Ben Abelshausen > escribió: > > These changesets are way more useful than most. > > You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the mapping > activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who validates,

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:52:40 -0500, john whelan wrote: > HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a > simpler more standardized approach. fwiw: HOT means Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team. For me this sounds a lot like "very close to OSM". > Many of their volunteers ofte do

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On 11/19/2015 3:58 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Of course you are also right when you say that HOT instructions do sometimes clash with our usual quality expectations (I remember a recent discussion about tagging "village greens" so that these can be interpreted as helicopter landing sites or

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On 11/19/2015 4:02 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Blake Girardot wrote: As to the original issue Ramm raised: Frederik's first name is Frederik. It's not that uncommon. :) Please can we avoid this becoming _really_ unnecessarily confrontational by calling people by their surnames in a sort of

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Thursday 19 November 2015, Kate Chapman wrote: > > > > And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read: > > > > "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and > > tag them landuse=residential" > > > > that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely >

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

2015-11-19 15:30 GMT+01:00 Kate Chapman : > >> "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and tag >> them landuse=residential" >> >> that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely to map >> reality, what's on the ground. It instructs

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On 19/11/2015 5:31 AM, Andy Townsend wrote: On 19/11/2015 10:16, Ben Abelshausen wrote: You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the mapping activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who validates, what mappers contributed and so on. Can you please

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Christoph Hormann wrote: > And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read: > > "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings > and tag them landuse=residential" > > that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely > to map reality, what's on the ground.

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Can you explain to me what a "rapid anti-OSMer" is? I can only assume that is someone that prefers to use proprietary mapslikely a contributor to Google Mapmaker. Anyone who takes the time to get a OSM user account, contributes data, runs a mapping event or otherwise introduces people to OSM

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On 11/19/2015 2:54 PM, Simon Poole wrote: This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you didn't intend for your statement to come across as it just did. While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and MM, I do assume that the majority of the HOT

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

This is confusion. Kate was challenging that notion and was saying that HOT is definitely part of the OSM community, and OSM encompassed a lot of methods. No one I've seen in HOT or OSM is anti OSM, that's just wrong. We're all hear to create the best open map ever. Maybe we can focus on how to

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Christoph, On 11/19/2015 03:14 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote: > And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read: > "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and tag > them landuse=residential" [...] To be fair, that's exactly what *I* did in the early days when only

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Blake Girardot wrote: > As to the original issue Ramm raised: Frederik's first name is Frederik. It's not that uncommon. :) Please can we avoid this becoming _really_ unnecessarily confrontational by calling people by their surnames in a sort of English public school style ("go it, molesworth,

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Am 19.11.2015 um 15:17 schrieb Paul Johnson: > On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Simon Poole > wrote: > > This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure > you didn't intend for your statement to come across as it just did. > >

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

While it's factually correct to say that you don't have to take part in the community to work with OSM, I seldom see that in practice. Missing Maps and HOT are deeply involved in the OSM community. When we do see this gap between the data and community anywhere in OSM, it's a great action to

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Am 19.11.2015 um 15:53 schrieb Blake Girardot: > > It is a ridiculous statement on its face; obviously HOT does not > succeed if OSM does not succeed. I think we fully agree and if you recheck you will see that I said essentially the same. > > As to the original issue Ramm raised: > > Most

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi Christoph, The flaw with this logic is that people in HOT are not participating in the OSM community. Is the OSM community to remain static and "conventions" made years ago may never change? Do we not have the same goal of a free map of the entire world? -Kate On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 1:44

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi, On 11/19/2015 02:28 PM, Kate Chapman wrote: > The flaw with this logic is that people in HOT are not participating in > the OSM community. Perhaps that is the bit that needs working on. One would certainly assume that an organisation that derives a large part of its raison d'etre (not to

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you didn't intend for your statement to come across as it just did. While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and MM, I do assume that the majority of the HOT and MM communities are not falling in to the

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Thursday 19 November 2015, Kate Chapman wrote: > Is the OSM community to remain static and > "conventions" made years ago may never change? No, but meaningful changeset comments as per http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_changeset_comments is certainly a convention broadly supported by

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Simon Poole wrote: > This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you > didn't intend for your statement to come across as it just did. > > While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and MM, > Not

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On 11/19/15, Simon Poole wrote: > While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and > MM, [...] This bit is new to me. Care to explain who these anti-OSMers are, what their agenda is, and how they are using HOT and Missing Maps to further their agenda? (I've

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 6:14 AM, Christoph Hormann wrote: > On Thursday 19 November 2015, Kate Chapman wrote: > > > And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read: > > "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and tag > them landuse=residential"

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi Frederik, I have a more fundamental question based on the assumption that jobs in the HOT Tasking Manager occupy a small part of the real physical world: Why does it matter what the changeset comments in this area is? If everyone mapping a city in Nigeria, such as in task

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Þann 19.11.2015 14:14, Christoph Hormann reit: And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read: "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and tag them landuse=residential" that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely to map reality, what's on

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Good day fellow OSMers, I have read this thread with great interest. There are some productive solutions such as training and technical changes. Thank you. Every day someone joins OpenStreetMap. Every day someone tinkers and tries to learn. This is a good thing. In open communities, there is a

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

While it's factually correct to say that you don't have to take part in the community to work with OSM, I seldom see that in practice. Missing Maps and HOT are deeply involved in the OSM community. When we do see this gap between the data and community anywhere in OSM, it's a great action to

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

"On the other hand you can't deny that HOT is in some ways self defeatingsince it isolates lots of people from the whole of OSM and the nitty grity parts." Fully denied. There are many facets to OSM, we are all, I hope, working to provide ways to integrate them.  * Mikel Maron * +14152835207

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a simpler more standardized approach. Many of their volunteers often do not know enough English to write a meaningful change set comment. HOT tends to map in areas that do not have a great deal of OSM mapping already in place so I

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On 19/11/2015 11:11 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I would like to draw everyone's attention to a long-standing community recommendation: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_changeset_comments It explains why you should use sensible changeset comments that describe what you (think you)

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

On 19/11/2015 11:52 AM, john whelan wrote: HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a simpler more standardized approach. Many of their volunteers often do not know enough English to write a meaningful change set comment. HOT tends to map in areas that do not have a great

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

2015-11-18 21:11 GMT-03:00 Frederik Ramm : > This is *not* useful. First of all, we're not Twitter; we don't evaluate > these hashtags. I don't know if there are some downstream services that > do, but if so, please switch to using a secondary tag (remember, > changesets, like

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi all, Surely this is a case of “more is better”. As Kate suggests, the hashtags are a great tool for downstream analytics we can use to learn about and improve our work. At mapathons I always instruct newcomers to add their personal comments to the pre-loaded tags from the tasking

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi Frederik, I fail to see how machine readable hashtags are "not useful". They allow statistical analysis which can be used to inform future recruitment and other activities. Often we make assumptions about OSM contributors not backed by statistics this allows improvement in one corner of the

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi Kate, Kate Chapman schrieb: > I fail to see how machine readable hashtags are "not useful". They allow > statistical analysis which can be used to inform future recruitment and > other activities. but as Frederik suggested: Why do these hashtags have to be in the changeset comment? Your

[OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

Hi, I would like to draw everyone's attention to a long-standing community recommendation: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_changeset_comments It explains why you should use sensible changeset comments that describe what you (think you) have been doing. I don't know exactly who