Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Vào lúc 00:59 2023-01-03, Simon Poole đã viết: Not quite unexpected this discussion has already gone off on a tangent about stable ids. My question on the other hand would be: what do you actually want to achieve and what would you expect an application to do with the parameter? Furthermore,

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On Tue, 2023-01-10 at 08:39 +0100, Yves wrote: > > > Le 10 janvier 2023 08:12:43 GMT+01:00, Snusmumriken > a écrit : > > On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 23:06 +, Andy Townsend wrote: > > > On 09/01/2023 20:17, Snusmumriken wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 08:21 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote: > > > > >

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Le 10 janvier 2023 08:12:43 GMT+01:00, Snusmumriken a écrit : >On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 23:06 +, Andy Townsend wrote: >> On 09/01/2023 20:17, Snusmumriken wrote: >> > On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 08:21 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote: >> > > You seem unwilling to understand that defining a way to refer to

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 23:06 +, Andy Townsend wrote: > On 09/01/2023 20:17, Snusmumriken wrote: > > On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 08:21 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote: > > > You seem unwilling to understand that defining a way to refer to > > > ids > > > will cause social pressure not to change ids, > > Is

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Snusmumriken writes: > On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 08:21 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote: >> >> You seem unwilling to understand that defining a way to refer to ids >> will cause social pressure not to change ids, > > Is there actually evidence that would corroborate this claim? Do you mean like actually

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On 09/01/2023 20:17, Snusmumriken wrote: On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 08:21 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote: You seem unwilling to understand that defining a way to refer to ids will cause social pressure not to change ids, Is there actually evidence that would corroborate this claim? There have

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On Mon, 2023-01-09 at 08:21 -0500, Greg Troxel wrote: > > You seem unwilling to understand that defining a way to refer to ids > will cause social pressure not to change ids, Is there actually evidence that would corroborate this claim? ___ talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Le 9 janvier 2023 16:19:14 GMT+01:00, Niels Elgaard Larsen a écrit : > >I sometimes do get annoyed at especially new mappers that often >excessively delete and recreates objects. Because it obscures the >history. > If it is a trend for new mappers, which I understand well because sometimes it

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 08:21:42 -0500 Greg Troxel wrote: >Sören Reinecke writes: > >> Using osm id is far from ideal but it is sufficient enough. If POI >> owners are using OSM data, they will likely also pay attention to the >> osm entry they have to keep it updated. So they will notice any >>

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 at 17:57, Sören Reinecke wrote: > It came into my mind to get IETF to standardize a parameter explicitly > linking to > osm objects with their corresponding type and id. 1) Do we have any indication that IETF would be willing to "standardize a parameter" for an ID scheme

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Sören Reinecke writes: > Using osm id is far from ideal but it is sufficient enough. If POI > owners are using OSM data, they will likely also pay attention to the > osm entry they have to keep it updated. So they will notice any > change. You seem unwilling to understand that defining a way to

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

sent from a phone > On 6 Jan 2023, at 23:34, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote: > > Maybe we could maintain a list of tags that are practical permanent unique > identifiers. And then have a tool that for most objects could generate a url > (https or geo) that references that object using that tag.

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Sören Reinecke: > way/node/relation ids in OSM are unstable, not promised to be stable and anything relying on their stability can break at any point Right, I know that OSM ids are not stable. The same applies to coordinates too. If a restaurant puts a 'geo' link on their online pdf menu card

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Le 6 janvier 2023 15:49:53 GMT+01:00, "Sören Reinecke" a écrit : > >Better would be to have a separate FOSS platform for storing POI information >using a permanent identifier connected to OSM somehow e.g. by a key >"somepoiplatformid". But no one created such a platform yet. > Probably

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Ok, sry. I messed up with my example. I wanted to explain that using coordinates is not stable either because they don't point directly to the POI, they just point to the physical reference of the ground on earth. But at the end we may clarify strongly that osm ids are not stable and keep

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 13:47 +, Ed Loach wrote: > > Good point. Also consider that OSM ids have an advantage over > > coordinates, because if an OSM object gets deleted then a query for > > that id will return "Not found". That in itself is valuable > > information > > to a data consumer. > >

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

> Good point. Also consider that OSM ids have an advantage over > coordinates, because if an OSM object gets deleted then a query for > that id will return "Not found". That in itself is valuable information > to a data consumer. But rather than being deleted, they may become a different thing,

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Jan 6, 2023, 11:50 by valin...@gmx.net: > To sum up: Coordinates can be used in the same wrong way as OSM id as > they're both not sufficient enough for the use case most people are > using it (indirectly). > But coordinates can be used correctly (shop updating their location when their

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 11:50 +0100, Sören Reinecke wrote: > To sum up: Coordinates can be used in the same wrong way as OSM id as > they're both not sufficient enough for the use case most people are > using it (indirectly). Coordinates are already part of the 'geo' URI > scheme. There is no

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Hi, On 06.01.23 11:50, Sören Reinecke wrote: Right, I know that OSM ids are not stable. The same applies to coordinates too. If a restaurant puts a 'geo' link on their online pdf menu card with the coordinates to their shop then this is in the same manner unstable as osm id. No. The

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

> way/node/relation ids in OSM are unstable, not promised to be stable and anything relying on their stability can break at any point Right, I know that OSM ids are not stable. The same applies to coordinates too. If a restaurant puts a 'geo' link on their online pdf menu card with the

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Hello, Le 02.01.23 à 18:57, Sören Reinecke a écrit : It allows (web) developers to direct their users to their map browser of use e.g, Organic Maps, Google Maps, Apple Maps if it allow to open an osm editor from an "osm datauser app", that look fine. for ex I use Organic Maps, I see an error

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

stevea writes: > I'll state even more strongly than Frederik just did: "linking to an > OSM object by ID and expecting the ID to remain constant is asking for > trouble" is putting it mildly. It IS trouble. All it takes is one > single change to one single datum and boom, the assumption that

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Jan 2, 2023, 21:59 by ajt1...@gmail.com: > On 02/01/2023 20:44, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > >> way/node/relation ids in OSM are unstable, not promised to be stable and >> anything relying on their stability can break at any point >> > Unfortunately, that sort of "black and white"

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

I am “with” Andy here, yet I am also “with" Frederik here: you might be able to get away with this “most of the time,” but when it fails (and it will), you’ll be disappointed and perhaps even upset with OSM. There is simply no reason why we should be suggesting or supporting this. Because it

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Hi, On 02.01.23 21:59, Andy Townsend wrote: It's certainly possible (as I've said in that discussion) to use OSM IDs as "stable enough to do real work with" - I do it all the time. But establishing a "standard" to do it would likely exert pressure on mappers not to do anything that would

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Not quite unexpected this discussion has already gone off on a tangent about stable ids. My question on the other hand would be: what do you actually want to achieve and what would you expect an application to do with the parameter? It should be noted that we already have a couple of URI

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Am Mo., 2. Jan. 2023 um 22:03 Uhr schrieb Andy Townsend : > It's certainly possible (as I've said in that discussion) to use OSM IDs > as "stable enough to do real work with" - I do it all the time. > > Can I guarantee that the shop at "No 55 Main Street" will always have > the same OSM ID? No,

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On 02/01/2023 20:44, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: way/node/relation ids in OSM are unstable, not promised to be stable and anything relying on their stability can break at any point Unfortunately, that sort of "black and white" answer doesn't really answer the question of whether it's

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

On 1/2/23 11:57, Sören Reinecke wrote: Hey, It came into my mind to get IETF to standardize a parameter explicitly linking to osm objects with their corresponding type and id. [...] Would it make sense for Google Maps, Bing Maps, etc to have similar schemes under the geo URI scheme? I don't

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

I'll state even more strongly than Frederik just did: "linking to an OSM object by ID and expecting the ID to remain constant is asking for trouble" is putting it mildly. It IS trouble. All it takes is one single change to one single datum and boom, the assumption that doing so can work is

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Jan 2, 2023, 18:57 by valin...@gmx.net: > > Our own parameter could have the following syntax: > > > > > osmid=(N|W|R) > > > > > What do you think? > > way/node/relation ids in OSM are unstable, not promised to be stable and anything relying on their stability can break at any point

Re: [OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Hi, On 1/2/23 18:57, Sören Reinecke wrote: As OpenStreetMap is playing an important part in the geospatial world, the OSMF should try to get IETF convinced. Until now we've concentrated on making a good map, rather than convincing others that our map is good ;) I think that linking to OSM

[OSM-talk] Extending the 'geo:' uri scheme: Adding parameter 'osmid'

Hey, It came into my mind to get IETF to standardize a parameter explicitly linking to osm objects with their corresponding type and id. The 'geo' URI scheme is standardized as RFC 5870 with examples of usage