[Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

2013-11-03 Thread Richard Welty
the scope of this series of messages is strictly confined to two related things: true admin borders which are tied to local government in a strict sense (that is, there is an actual elected governmental body) and CDPs which are lumped in as admin_level 8 even though they do not have elected

[Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: CDPs

2013-11-03 Thread Richard Welty
first of all, CDPs. there's been an ongoing discussion about whether they belong in OSM at all, or whether they deserve their admin_level 8 classification. i have mixed feelings about the first, and am pretty sure we need a new way of classifying them if we keep them. here's some more fuel for the

[Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: misalignments

2013-11-03 Thread Richard Welty
Misaligned borders - we have a lot of these early border imports came from multiple sources, and when they were done, it was rare to look at other border imports in the vicinity and clean things up. a good example is along the Hudson River, where the county borders were from USGS (which were not

[Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: proper construction of ways and relations

2013-11-03 Thread Richard Welty
i've determined that a lot of the NY/PA border heading west from the Delaware has issues where no one bothered to break up and share the ways. and i've seen a lot of early work which we would now consider mistagged. this all sort of plays together... the ways in borders should probably not have

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: proper construction of ways and relations

2013-11-03 Thread Mike N
On 11/3/2013 10:54 AM, Richard Welty wrote: i've determined that a lot of the NY/PA border heading west from the Delaware has issues where no one bothered to break up and share the ways. Or, in my case, since I have no access to the accurate and correct border, and I have no idea where the

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: proper construction of ways and relations

2013-11-03 Thread Richard Welty
On 11/3/13 11:24 AM, Mike N wrote: On 11/3/2013 10:54 AM, Richard Welty wrote: i've determined that a lot of the NY/PA border heading west from the Delaware has issues where no one bothered to break up and share the ways. Or, in my case, since I have no access to the accurate and correct

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

2013-11-03 Thread Martijn van Exel
Administrative boundaries are generally not verifiable by ground surveying, and are not straightforward to edit. This causes information rot. What good is administrative boundary information that are not trustworthy? Moreover, they are freely[1] and easily available from an authoritative source.

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

2013-11-03 Thread Richard Welty
On 11/3/13 12:17 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: Administrative boundaries are generally not verifiable by ground surveying, and are not straightforward to edit. This causes information rot. What good is administrative boundary information that are not trustworthy? Moreover, they are freely[1] and

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

2013-11-03 Thread Clifford Snow
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: what i favor is going to a multi layer approach where some layers of OSM are ground verifiable things and others may not be. a consumer could choose to use some layers, and the admin boundaries (which are a real

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

2013-11-03 Thread Mike N
On 11/3/2013 12:55 PM, Richard Welty wrote: what i favor is going to a multi layer approach where some layers of OSM are ground verifiable things and others may not be. a consumer could choose to use some layers, and the admin boundaries (which are a real problem) can be moved and we can

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: misalignments

2013-11-03 Thread Frederik Ramm
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 03.11.2013 16:46, Richard Welty wrote: Misaligned borders - we have a lot of these This nice example was featured in worst of OSM a while ago and seems to have been unchanged since: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.2642/-95.7297 Bye

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: misalignments

2013-11-03 Thread Richard Welty
On 11/3/13 1:57 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 03.11.2013 16:46, Richard Welty wrote: Misaligned borders - we have a lot of these This nice example was featured in worst of OSM a while ago and seems to have been unchanged since: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.2642/-95.7297 that

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

2013-11-03 Thread stevea
On 11/3/13 12:17 PM, Martijn van Exel wrote: Administrative boundaries are generally not verifiable by ground surveying, and are not straightforward to edit. This causes information rot. What good is administrative boundary information that are not trustworthy? Moreover, they are freely[1]

[Talk-us] NHD tags

2013-11-03 Thread Jason Remillard
Hi, I came across my first NHD imported data set this weekend, in Western MA. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/43638395 It has the following tags. NHD:ComID = 7711652 NHD:FCode = 39004 NHD:FDate = 1999/09/06 NHD:FTYPE = LakePond NHD:GNIS_ID = 00212194 NHD:GNIS_Name = Lake Winnemaug

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

2013-11-03 Thread Russ Nelson
Richard Welty writes: what i favor is going to a multi layer approach where some layers of OSM are ground verifiable things and others may not be. E.g. the current openstreetmap.org and my suggestion of closedstreetmap.com. The difficulty of layers, as it has always been, is keeping them

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US

2013-11-03 Thread Martijn van Exel
Agreed that we should not, under no circumstances, just go ahead and remove data from OSM that has been there for a long time, that people rely on. And that is not what I am proposing. Really, I am not proposing anything, I am just stating my opinion that authoritative data such as boundaries, for

Re: [Talk-us] Admin borders in the US: misalignments

2013-11-03 Thread Jason Remillard
Hi, For what it is worth, this is an example of a several different imports ignoring each other rather than a problem specific to admin boundaries. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/36.2642/-95.7297 that is a good one. This is the same problem as above.

Re: [Talk-us] 'Michigan' lefts in Arizona

2013-11-03 Thread Ian McEwen
On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 06:26:27PM -0600, Martijn van Exel wrote: Hey all, I was looking for more info on Michigan lefts (in particular, how many are there?) and google offered up this gem here: