Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

Blaine, if you have no reasonable answers to these questions, just say so. Perry From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter' Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:15:56 -0700

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

JS also said there were men living on the Moon. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 14:54:02 EDT Hey Iz, To my knowledge, Joseph Smith never said what color the sky was.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Actually, David,  I think I will go with my analogy if it is alright with you.   It makes my point and says exactly what I want it to say.   Again, either you are saved by works or you are not.    Jd  -Original Message-From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgS

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

DM  -- you should work to remove your own ignorance before continuing this discussion.  I will wait until this ignorance (of yours) has been left behind.    JD  -Original Message-From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 13:23:29 -0400Subj

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

When DM speaks of "truism," in your case, how could this not be true?   This has got to be a FIRST JD agrees with DM? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, maybe this  is part of the 90% between DM and myself but --  Judy, my dear, Calvanism is a definite part of your theology.   Presbyterianism is Cal

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Well, maybe this  is part of the 90% between DM and myself but --  Judy, my dear, Calvanism is a definite part of your theology.   Presbyterianism is Calvanism institutionalized.   i do not think this is evil -- but it is true.   When DM speaks of "truism," in your case, how could this not be true

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Debbie, let me go on record as complaining about the value and meaning of G's posts.  Mercifully, they also cannot be understood. :-) izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie SawczakSent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 5:23 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubje

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Perpetual Conjecture? That's funny.  I think that's the place where Lance dwells isn't it? izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie SawczakSent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 5:48 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14 Howev

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Or reefers? iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 4:35 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14 Terry wrote: > Maybe if you were on the right medication you could

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

And if you believe that I have some Swamp Land on Kolob I can sell you!Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kevin Deegan wrote: [Hiram Page] obtained a stone through which he received some spurious revelations. ... So Hiram Page decided to settle the question as to where Zion was to be built

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

LDS god lives near Kolob JW god lives on Alcyone Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the FATHER of both (Jehovahs Witness & Mormon ) Religions ( and all others ) had something to do with a star. 2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of ligh

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

You’re absolutely right, JD.  G. writes at a first grade level.  iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 12:56 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14   Are w

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

  On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:21:48 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since this "spiritual condition" you speak of includes the physical body  -  the correct word would be "dead"  or "death.'      jt: Why not allow scripture to interpret scripture JD? Death scripturally can be either the absence

RE: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

Blaine, Don’t you think that since God created the stars that we observe, He dwells outside of that realm? The Milky Way is but a speck of dust in our universe—why would He make that particular relatively tiny spot His dwelling place IYHO? iz   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMA

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

Kevin Deegan wrote: [Hiram Page] obtained a stone through which he received some spurious revelations. ... So Hiram Page decided to settle the question as to where Zion was to be built through his magical stoneOliver Cowdery and the Whitmer family were deceived by the false declarat

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

Just Because!   I know the church is True BECAUSE I know the church is True[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/30/2005 2:56:11 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So according to Joe, when Oliver Cowdery and the Whitmer family believed his claim to receive revelation

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

In a message dated 7/30/2005 2:56:11 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So according to Joe, when Oliver Cowdery and the Whitmer family believed his claim to receive revelations from his seer stone they were people full of faith, but when they believed revelations

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

Now I'm confused (even more than usual).  What happened to Kolub? TerryKOLOB RECORDS It is the Record Label of those Spiffy Clean veneer OSMONDS! http://www.deuceofclubs.com/lps/kolob.htm   Well actually it is a really cool park http://www.americansouthwest.net/utah/zion/kolob_canyons.html   OR it

[TruthTalk] Anonymous Poem

For all you "poetry" lovers, here is a poem written by a hurting person with a demon problem that illustrates the difference between spirit & soul.   My brain is so busy Inside my head But yet in my heart Everything's dead   My head and my heart Argue a lot My head tries to be What my heart i

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Maybe she'll have to take a Break, go on a Vacation?Debbie Sawczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes; after all, that IS a sure sign of the end of the world!! (Or at least Judy's world.)   Debbie - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

G's detractors were complaining about the accessibility, not the value, of the meaning of his posts. Of course, few things are accessible to the lazy, who then have nothing to evaluate.    "When Bernie stood up, he was reborn, and he yelled, “Thank you, Jesus!” over and over, tears pouring down his

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Good question - it appears as though to some people I've been influenced by everything BUT the Spirit of God. I'd like to see the facts myself.   jt   On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Show me the FAXS   How is your perception a TRUISM?

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Show me the FAXS   How is your perception a TRUISM?David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kevin wrote:> Facts to prove that JT was influenced by Why would any sane person not believe that JT has been influenced by Augustine, Calvin, her flesh, Satan, etc.? Why make an argument out of a truism?

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

Kevin Deegan wrote: That seems a logical place for God to live   So he lives next door to the god of the Jehovahs Witnesses?   God resides on the star Alcyone in the constellation Pleiades. Reconciliation page 14 & Studies Vol. 3, pg. 327 =

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

However, speaking of T-shirts not saying what you expect them to say: last summer I saw someone in a parking lot whose T-shirt read, in large black caps, PERPETUAL CONJECTURE. I thought that was a pretty intriguing thing to put on a T-shirt and I also liked the sound of the words (as in, the

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Yes; after all, that IS a sure sign of the end of the world!! (Or at least Judy's world.)   Debbie - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [T

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

> Debbie wrote:>> Like good song lyrics or a poem.>> You can't be lazy.> DM wrote: What about a bad song or poem, where you take the time to try and > understand, but then you are upset with the meaning you uncovered.>  A bad song or poem is one whose meaning upsets you??   But in any case,

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

So David, now you and BT are in one accord so we may as well discontinue the dialogue.  jt     On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:49:14 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Kevin wrote:> > Facts to prove that JT was influenced by > > Why would any sane person not believe that JT has bee

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Kevin wrote: > Facts to prove that JT was influenced by Why would any sane person not believe that JT has been influenced by Augustine, Calvin, her flesh, Satan, etc.? Why make an argument out of a truism? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

Blaine wrote: > ... pointing right into the center of the Milky > Way Galaxy. That seems a logical place for > God to live, but then that is IMHO. Why not the center of the universe instead of the center of the galaxy? Why not the center of our solar system (the sun)? Can you tell us a little

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Debbie wrote: > Like good song lyrics or a poem. > You can't be lazy. What about a bad song or poem, where you take the time to try and understand, but then you are upset with the meaning you uncovered. This kind of reminds me of some of my preaching adventures in the nightclub districts. I so

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Terry wrote: > Maybe if you were on the right medication you > could understand. You need to be able to see > what normal people cannot. Just let it float > around in your mind for a while as you float around > the room and it will become awesome. ROTFLOL! You crack me up, Terry. I guess the m

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Now that I would like to see - After all the accusations I've still not seen any factual information showing how what I am saying is the same as Augustine - in fact I found a whole list of things that are in conflict.  He would have excommunicated me with the Donatists and other hereticks f

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Facts to prove that JT was influenced by ...David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kevin wrote:> Nice THEORY Where are the facts?> You nor BT can prove this Theory anymore> than proving the Tooth Fairy!I gave you some facts with Ezekiel 18 and Exodus 20:5. More facts are available to those who

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

n na NA Noow I gaA itTerry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kevin Deegan wrote:> I would read it if it was understandable. We need a Translator, I > think we have one on TT.> =Maybe if you were on the

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Get on board the Magical Mystery Tour BusDebbie Sawczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Like good song lyrics or a poem. You can't be lazy.   Debbie - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] R

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

O so he writes way above our heads? Next thing you know you will be telling us to approve of the Emperor's new clothes! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are we all mad because Professor Ottoson does not write at a 4th grade level?   I like it for just that reason.   I have to sit and think about it for

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

That seems a logical place for God to live   So he lives next door to the god of the Jehovahs Witnesses?   God resides on the star Alcyone in the constellation Pleiades. Reconciliation page 14 & Studies Vol. 3, pg. 327 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Hey Iz, To my knowledge, Joseph Smith never said w

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

Joe the SEER Joseph, Jr., could see, by placing a stone of singular appearance in his hat, in such a manner as to exclude all light; at which time they pretended he could see all things within and under the earth, — that he could see within the above mentioned caves, large gold bars and silver plat

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Judy wrote: > David sins follow family trees, the characteristics of > spirituality follow families. This is true, but there are two types of sin sources that need to be considered. There also are different mechanisms by which these are transferred to future generations. The flesh has a sin na

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

David Miller wrote: >> Bill is not saying that you have read Augustine. >> He is saying that you have been influenced by >> Augustine and have adopted some of his viewpoints >> without realizing it. How? Because you live in this world >> and have grown up around ministers and school systems >> th

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

[Hiram Page] obtained a stone through which he received some spurious revelations. ... So Hiram Page decided to settle the question as to where Zion was to be built through his magical stoneOliver Cowdery and the Whitmer family were deceived by the false declarations of Hiram Page. "More Remar

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Kevin wrote: > Nice THEORY Where are the facts? > You nor BT can prove this Theory anymore > than proving the Tooth Fairy! I gave you some facts with Ezekiel 18 and Exodus 20:5. More facts are available to those who have a heart that desires to learn. Peace be with you. David Miller.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Kevin Deegan wrote: I would read it if it was understandable. We need a Translator, I think we have one on TT. = Maybe if you were on the right medication you could understand. You need to be able to see what normal people

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

JD wrote: > Now, Terry is just making up stuff without giving > a response to my objections."Come on in -- > its FREE -- but you can't stay in our FREE home > unless you pay $750 a month after the first month > ...and never ever forget, it's all FREE."Terry > Either you are saved by work

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Church has ZERO Growth!

"They are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink."  Is 29:9    So you agree, the CONTEXT of IS 29:9 is JUDGEMENT?   How could that be seeing as it is a prooftext for the BoM coming out of the ground from a FAMILIAR (Evil) Spirit?   Why did you leave out the NEXT Verse?

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

I would read it if it was understandable. We need a Translator, I think we have one on TT.ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It only makes sense to those in the right Klingon time travel wave length, Kevin.  That's why I don't even bother to read the stuff. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [m

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

On pages 111-112 we find verses 1-14 of DC 29. What does D&C 29 have to do with this? I do not see what context or verse to which you refer. There are 50 total verses in this one! http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/29   Since we were talking about SEER Stones maybe you refer to the top of page 111 where

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

I can't say I've thought about it with any thoroughness before (which is why I didn't want to commit myself to an endorsement of that content of your post). I will do some thinking about it now, though, and may return to it as per your request. My answer to your first question will obviously con

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Amen     (this coming from one who is about to see a Batman movie  ).   JD  -Original Message-From: Debbie Sawczak To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 15:18:50 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14 Like good song lyrics

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Like good song lyrics or a poem. You can't be lazy.   Debbie - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14 Are we all mad because Profes

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

Why not just admit you can not make "anything" you want appear Evil.   LDS are brought up in a culture and in a worldview that trains them to filter out, discard any information that is does not fit & or is contrary to that worldview.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Blainer:  That's too easy--give me

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Are we all mad because Professor Ottoson does not write at a 4th grade level?   I like it for just that reason.   I have to sit and think about it for a while.   It is almost always good -  and at times profound.    JD   -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTal

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

  Hey Iz, To my knowledge, Joseph Smith never said what color the sky was.  (If I said he did, would you argue the point? :>).  However,  he once pointed up into the night sky towards the constellation Sagittarius, and said,  "God lives up yonder."   It turns out he was, according to disco

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

I kinda of like your perspective on G's perspective.   Jd  -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 09:48:35 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14 Seems like from G-m's perspectiv

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

One positive from your expressed inability (below)  --  at least there is no logical way you can be critical of Denver's resident theologican.   That s good.   JD  -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 04:43:57 -0700 (

RE: [TruthTalk] LDS Church has ZERO Growth!

My Lord is returning momentarily, and I don’t plan to meet him in a drunken stupor.  Your god, however, will arrive when hell freezes over. (Got your snowshoes on?) izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 30, 200

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

John wrote: > ... there is not a dual reality when it comes to man. > He is mind, body/soul, and spirit. That is what he is. > The three cannot be separated and survive. Even if this were true, this does not mean that we cannot talk about what each part contributes. When talking about the phys

Re: [TruthTalk] LDS Church has ZERO Growth!

  Blainerb: Be my guests.  I would even provide you with a few beers/wines to help you get through the difficult times ahead before the grand finale, but you seem out of it already, so no need!!  "They are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink."  Isaiah 29:9 

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 12:21:48 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since this "spiritual condition" you speak of includes the physical body  -  the correct word would be "dead"  or "death.'      jt: Why not allow scripture to interpret scripture JD? Death scripturally can be eith

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Debbie wrote: > David, I appreciate the substance and tone of this post > you wrote to Judy (apart from whether or not I happen > to have the same opinion about spiritual inheritance). Thank you for the kind words, Debbie, but now my curiosity is piqued. Do you have a system of understanding spi

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual Death

Since this "spiritual condition" you speak of includes the physical body  -  the correct word would be "dead"  or "death.'   Look, what Bill is trying to get across is that aside from the metaphorical language used to teach biblical concepts, the reality is this:  there is not a dual reality when

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

Blainerb:  Sorry Kevin, as usual, you have either been reading the wrong stuff, or you are making this up as you go along, trying to build a case.  Joseph Smith had the Urim  &Thummim restored to him in July, 1828.  Using it, he received a new revelation reprimanding him for allowing Martin

RE: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

Apparently you missed the post recently where I said we just baptized 193 people at our church JD.  Regarding your last sentence, I'm all for it--why don't you give it a try? izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

It only makes sense to those in the right Klingon time travel wave length, Kevin.  That's why I don't even bother to read the stuff. izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 5:44 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject:

Re: [TruthTalk] A 'prooftexter' vs a 'contexter'

  Blainer:  That's too easy--give me a harder one.  :>)   In a message dated 7/28/2005 10:33:07 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:  I can make anyone or anything appear evil if I choose to--it is just a matter of which perspective I choose to adopt.   If that is

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Seems like from G-m's perspective God will wind up with a pack of wild dogs & JD in heaven     On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 04:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Do you have a secret decoder ring? Maybe if I quickly blink my eyes as I am reading[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:John 16:13,14

Do you have a secret decoder ring? Maybe if I quickly blink my eyes as I am reading[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This bears repeating --  so here it is again  --  let it sink in.     -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:06:31 -0

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

They and the other evangelists, never used these very words  -  you must be born again in order to be saved.   What?   Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit... 1 PETER 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, whic

Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

Of course they did JD, and some even explain what they mean.  We have Jesus discourse with Nicodemus in John 3 where he juxtaposes spiritual with physical birth; and an object lesson is given for this in Gal 4:29 where two of Abrahams sons - one born of flesh and the other born of the spirit