Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-29 Thread CHamm56114
You are right.  I have never cast out a demon but I have seen it done and know it to be real.  Laura It seems to me that perhaps you do not have too much experience with casting out devils.  Throwing Scriptures and the name of Jesus at them might not be very effective.  Remember the sons of Sceva?

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-29 Thread David Miller
Laura wrote: > I also wonder how Bro James can say we can't > bind Satan but we can bind demons. Satan is > not omnipresent so he can't be in more than one > place. That would mean that his demons are > usually the ones who/that cause us grief and I'm > all for binding them. The best way I know

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-28 Thread CHamm56114
In a message dated 10/28/2002 8:56:54 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If anyone thinks Satan has power over Christians, let's hear it. Only if we let him.  Our choice!!!  LAura

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-28 Thread CHamm56114
In a message dated 10/27/2002 3:59:55 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Glenn wrote: Sounds like Satan has the power over you.  I don't believe he does over me. Glenn, Doesn’t satan have power over us when we sin? Izzy Are you saying Satan is the reason w

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-28 Thread David Miller
Glenn wrote: > You asked (see below) if Satan had POWER over > us when we sin. I said no. Satan cannot make > Christians sin. I agree that Satan cannot make a believer sin. However, I think Izzy was saying that if a believer were to sin, then that would give Satan power over them. I agree with

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-28 Thread GJTabor
h sins are a response to satan’s temptation, and which aren’t? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works Why not? Jam

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-28 Thread ShieldsFamily
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   Why not? James 1:14-15 Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 4:11

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-27 Thread GJTabor
Why not? James 1:14-15 Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 4:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works Glenn again - No Glenn wrote: Sounds like

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-27 Thread ShieldsFamily
Why not?   Izzy   -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 4:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   Glenn again - No Glenn wrote: Sounds like Satan

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-27 Thread GJTabor
Glenn again - No Glenn wrote: Sounds like Satan has the power over you.  I don't believe he does over me. Glenn, Doesn’t satan have power over us when we sin? Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-27 Thread ShieldsFamily
Glenn wrote: Sounds like Satan has the power over you.  I don't believe he does over me.        Glenn,   Doesn’t satan have power over us when we sin?   Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-25 Thread GJTabor
Sounds like Satan has the power over you.  I don't believe he does over me.  Greater is he that is in me, than he that is in the world.  Resist the devil and he will flee from you.  James 4:7.  I have the power throught the blood/name of Jesus to send the devil running away.  Do you not believe th

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-25 Thread Pastor James PS Templeton
: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   I agree.  No one was suggesting we bind Satan with out own power.  I disagree if you are saying we can't bind Satan though the power of the blood of Jesus. don’t think it is a good idea to attempt to bind Satan. We can bind evil spirits, but concerning Satan w

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-24 Thread Pastor James PS Templeton
ShieldsFamily Sent: 24 October 2002 13:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   Are these the steps you have used that didn’t work? ROTFL.  I’ve used them, too. They are very helpful. J   Izzy   -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-24 Thread GJTabor
I agree.  No one was suggesting we bind Satan with out own power.  I disagree if you are saying we can't bind Satan though the power of the blood of Jesus. don’t think it is a good idea to attempt to bind Satan. We can bind evil spirits, but concerning Satan we are told that even the archangel Mi

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-24 Thread ShieldsFamily
I great—now I have to pray to the “Magic Jap”!   Izzy   -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   Ok, I will

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-24 Thread David Miller
Glenn wrote: > You can wait for wait for a magic jap [do you mean zap?] > to come and you can be perfect without any effort. :-) I know you said this sarcastically, but your statement is very close to the truth. Our efforts will always frustrate Christian perfection. We cannot lift a finger to

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-24 Thread GJTabor
Ok, I will not send you anything.  You can wait for wait for a magic jap to come and you can be perfect without any effort.  :-) Are these the steps you have used that didn’t work? ROTFL.  I’ve used them, too. They are very helpful. J Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-24 Thread ShieldsFamily
] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   Here's some ideas I read somewhere to use in our fight against sin. 1.  Name you enemy, Satan.     A.  Bind him in the name of Jesus 2 Tim. 1:7 2.  Use spiritual weapons. 2 Cor. 10:4    a.  Speaking the name of Jesus    b.  Quotin

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread Dave
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrong.  The Bible does not say this.  And you know it. DAVEH:  You are "Wrong" about that Glenn.  There was a translation of the Bible that said such, but the Bible scholars corrected it, I think.   ROTFLOL Don't be so quick to agree with Glenn on this matter.  The Bib

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
Here's some ideas I read somewhere to use in our fight against sin. 1.  Name you enemy, Satan.     A.  Bind him in the name of Jesus 2 Tim. 1:7 2.  Use spiritual weapons. 2 Cor. 10:4    a.  Speaking the name of Jesus    b.  Quoting the Bible 3.  Expect to overcome sin  Rom. 8:37 4.

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread ShieldsFamily
Glenn wrote:  Christians can get to be perfect when they die.      That brings up something I have always wondered about—why does dying finally make us perfect??? What happens between here and heaven to change us? Why can’t we change it now, instead?   Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
1 John - Chapter 3 - Coffman's Commentary of the New Testament on SearchGodsWord.org Study Resource List BCC -> Commentary on 3:7 DSN -> Synopsis on 3:7 GEB -> Study Notes on 3:7 JFB -> Commentary on 3:7 MHC-COM -> Commentary on 3:7 MHC-CON -> Commentary on 3:7 PNT -> Commentary on 3:7 RWP

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
- Original Message - From: Pastor James PS Templeton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:38 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works I think our aim must always be perfection which we know is possible according to Jude 1:24 “Now unto him that is able to keep you fr

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread David Miller
Templeton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:38 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works I think our aim must always be perfection which we know is possible according to Jude 1:24 “Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread Pastor James PS Templeton
ED] Sent: 23 October 2002 15:27 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   I guess it depends upon how you look at it.  I consider it encouraging to learn of the grace of God.  To me it was like being let out of a shoebox in the middle of a huge parking lot.  I tell it like

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread Pastor James PS Templeton
: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   Question Izzy?  For what do you consider works a requirement? Obviously we cannot save ourselves by obeying the law (ie: never transgressing in our whole life), and that is why we fall upon the Blood of Christ to save us. But why would we NOT consider obeying the law as a

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread David Miller
David Miller wrote: > Your attitude might be falling back to treating the > New Testament and the commandments as law. > Based upon some of your other comments, you > might be looking too much at works as having > efficacy for justification. Izzy wrote: > That is a strange thing to say. James said

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
Glenn wrote: > To say Christians have to be perfect is > discouraging to me. What about saying that Christians can be perfect.  Glenn - No, that is not discouraging.  They can be perfect.  But they can also sin and do.  They should repent when they sin.  Is that discouraging to you?  What abo

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
Glenn, I am well aware of the grace of God. What I want is more of His holiness. I do not consider that to be spiritual pride, just obedience. When you call your brother, David Miller, a Pharisee for his stance that is very discouraging to me! To me a Pharisee is someone who goes around criticizi

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread David Miller
David Miller wrote: > Listen to the warning of John concerning Glenn's > doctrine that the righteousness of the Christian is > inferior to the righteousness of Christ. > > "Little children, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: > he that doeth righteousness is righteous, EVEN > AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS." (1 John 3:7)

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread David Miller
Glenn wrote: > To say Christians have to be perfect is > discouraging to me. What about saying that Christians can be perfect. Is that discouraging to you? What about saying that Christians will be perfect if they believe upon Christ for it, is that discouraging to you? What about saying that C

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
Bible, BIBLE, BIBLE HAS BEEN GIVEN to you but you explain it away. This is sin. Notice also how the passage above teaches us that we may be without offense till the day of Christ.  Why does Glenn teach us that this is impossible? BIBLE, BIBLE, BIBLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
David, the more you talk the more I see pride in you.  This misuse of scripture is blinding. Listen to the warning of John concerning Glenn's doctrine that the righteousness of the Christian is inferior to the righteousness of Christ. "Little children, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: he that doeth righ

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
More sin here.  I have not given my total view of Galatians.   I respectfully ask you to stop judging me.  You are not my judge.  Don't be so quick to agree with Glenn on this matter.  The Bible warns us not to be deceived with GLENN'S NOTION of imputed righteousness.  There is a true doctrine o

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
Wrong.  The Bible does not say this.  And you know it. Don't be so quick to agree with Glenn on this matter.  The Bible warns us not to be deceived with GLENN'S NOTION of imputed righteousness. 

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
No, I was not doing that.  I was showing false doctrine. Laura, I was speaking tongue-in-cheek. However, it is not encouraging to me to hear Glenn disparage someone’s quest to obey the Lord. Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread ShieldsFamily
PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 9:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   I guess it depends upon how you look at it.  I consider it encouraging to learn of the grace of God.  To me it was like being let out of a shoebox in the middle of a huge parking lot

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread David Miller
Glenn wrote: > I don't believe Christians have absolute perfect > love, absolute perfect peace and absolute > perfect faith. Be ye perfect as God the Father > is perfect. I believe in holiness but not perfectly > holy as God the Father is holy. > ... God sees us as perfect through his Son Jesus >

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread ShieldsFamily
, 2002 9:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   In a message dated 10/23/2002 9:17:34 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Something tells me that encouragement is not one of your spiritual gifts—I am very discerning!) J Not to offend you

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
I guess it depends upon how you look at it.  I consider it encouraging to learn of the grace of God.  To me it was like being let out of a shoebox in the middle of a huge parking lot.  I tell it like it is.  To me, it is encouraging to learn the truth about religious pride.  We are looking at this

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread CHamm56114
In a message dated 10/23/2002 9:17:34 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Something tells me that encouragement is not one of your spiritual gifts—I am very discerning!) J Not to offend you, Izzy,  but your discernment is wrong on this one!  Encouragement may be one of Glen

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread ShieldsFamily
, October 23, 2002 8:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   Agreed.  I WANT to obey God's commands.  I WANT to please him.  Glenn, Agreed. But just because we are freed from legalism does not mean we are freed from obeying God’s commandments. It does not

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread ShieldsFamily
A requirement to obey God, of course, as Jesus said we should do.   Izzy   -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 7:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
ailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works I can avoid all sins of co-mission/action.   I can absolutely perfectly refrain from committing overt sins.   I cannot be absolutely perfect i

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread GJTabor
Question Izzy?  For what do you consider works a requirement? Obviously we cannot save ourselves by obeying the law (ie: never transgressing in our whole life), and that is why we fall upon the Blood of Christ to save us. But why would we NOT consider obeying the law as a requirement, just the sam

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread ShieldsFamily
-Original Message-from David Miller: Your attitude might be falling back to treating the New Testament and the commandments as law. Based upon some of your other comments, you might be looking too much at works as having efficacy for justification. David M, That is a strange thing

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-23 Thread ShieldsFamily
: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   I can avoid all sins of co-mission/action.   I can absolutely perfectly refrain from committing overt sins.   I cannot be absolutely perfect in all of the sins like; absolute perfect love, absolute

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-22 Thread GJTabor
I can avoid all sins of co-mission/action.   I can absolutely perfectly refrain from committing overt sins.   I cannot be absolutely perfect in all of the sins like; absolute perfect love, absolute perfect peace, absolute perfect faith.  Sin is much deeper than not committing adultery, etc,.  It ha

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-22 Thread ShieldsFamily
: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works   This shows, Izzy, you don't understand.  I am for holiness.  I am for righteousness. I am against sin.  I am also against false teaching.  Job said he was perfect but according to David he lied because a perfect person cannot admit he is perfect.  But David then

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-22 Thread ShieldsFamily
David, I have searched for this previous email, but couldn't find it. Would it be too much trouble for you to provide it again? Izzy Did you read the little book that John Wesley wrote on this? I provided a link to it in a previous e-mail. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, s

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-22 Thread GJTabor
Nevertheless, we also must believe the good news, that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and that he was manifested to take away our sins.  Well, has he taken away our sins or not? If he has, why then would anyone say that they still have sin? Glenn - Then why did you say you?  You can't weep over s

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-22 Thread GJTabor
Agreed. I encourage you to follow the teaching in James 4 concerning repentance.  I spend time in prayer, looking at my sin the way God sees it.  I ask God to show me its ugliness.  I weep over my sin.  This might take place over one hour, or it might be days or weeks.  But I humble myself over it

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-22 Thread GJTabor
This shows, Izzy, you don't understand.  I am for holiness.  I am for righteousness. I am against sin.  I am also against false teaching.  Job said he was perfect but according to David he lied because a perfect person cannot admit he is perfect.  But David then says Job was perfect.  It is soo

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-22 Thread David Miller
Izzy wrote: > I can only say that I appreciate your constant insistence > on living without sin, because you are the only person > I have EVER encountered who takes that approach. Please understand that I am not the only one who believes like this. There are millions of people who believe like th

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-21 Thread ShieldsFamily
Hi David, Yes it does help, and thanks for your time. However, it remains NOT an easy issue to understand because there is apparently no black and white answer--too fuzzy for such as me! I can only say that I appreciate your constant insistence on living without sin, because you are the only p

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-21 Thread GJTabor
I guess we just go in different crowds.  Repentance has always been preached everywhere I have been, but NOT grace. I think you have an idealistic view of the church goer.  I have known many church goers to get drunk and to commit fornication and adultery.  Not only among themselves, but even many

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-21 Thread David Miller
Glenn wrote: > This is why you believe in perfection. This is one of the > reasons I do not believe in perfection. The group of people > you preach to in the open air is not typical of Christians in > general. Glenn, these Christians I'm talking about attend church every week. It's just that wh

Re: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-21 Thread David Miller
Izzy wrote: > I have a hard time with understanding all this. It seems that we are > taught that "all you have to do is believe that Jesus is Savior, and > accept Him, and you get a free ticket to heaven...nothing else matters. > You can be as sinful as you want to and still get into heaven." > >

RE: [TruthTalk] Faith vs. Works

2002-10-19 Thread ShieldsFamily
David Miller wrote: When I teach holiness, it is not connected with salvation, but invariably, those who emphasize grace think that I tie it to salvation through implication. I do teach that anyone who believes in Jesus needs to receive Jesus as Lord of their life. I don't say that people ar