Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 08:33 PM 7/9/2004, John Cowan wrote: > I have just reviewed this list and found it odd that Hebrew presentation > forms are included but Arabic ones are not. The specification actually called only for Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic; I added Hebrew pour la lagniappe. If someone wants to add Arabic,

Re: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea)

Title: RE: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea) ï My mistake; yes, before. âMark - Original Message - From: Mike Ayers To: 'Mark Davis' ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 18:04 Subject: RE: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea) > From: [EMAIL P

RE: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea)

Title: RE: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea) > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Mark Davis > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 5:34 PM > This is incorrect. It will make a difference in other > positions. Sorting > "SÃren" after "Sozar" in a long list, if so

RE: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea)

Title: RE: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea) > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Michael Everson > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 1:25 PM > >You are certainly right that this is not a slam-dunk; > > This noun must have been on TV a lot in the US > recent

Re: Changing UCA primary weights (bad idea)

You say: > Actually, there is: o-slash *is* treated as a separate letter in > the pronunciation guides of all IPA-based dictionaries, which constitute > the majority of the world's usage, currently. First, I don't know that UCA out of the box sorts IPA correctly -- nor do I have much of an idea w

Re: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea)

I'll try to pick out the relevant points. > Please do. Do you really want all those letters > between "e" and "f" interfiled with "e"? I surely > do not. You seem to have a misperception of what I think we should be looking at. What I think we should be examining is which of the items that are no

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Peter Kirk scripsit: > I have just reviewed this list and found it odd that Hebrew presentation > forms are included but Arabic ones are not. The specification actually called only for Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic; I added Hebrew pour la lagniappe. If someone wants to add Arabic, I encourage the

Re: Importance of diacritics (was: Looking for transcription ...)

Kenneth Whistler wrote: Subject: Impotance of diacritics (was: Looking for transcription ...) ^ It's a good thing this discussion of the impotence of diacritics Sorry, I'm getting tired. And of course I meant to say "I generally expect publishers..." not "accept" Regards, bushman

Re: Arabic written in Syriac? Arabic written in Tifinagh?

E. Keown a écrit : > >Aha!--thank you. Is there much Garshuni material, >some especially notable? > A recent (may 2004) communication and references to Garshuni manuscripts : 17h15 Élie Kallas (Trieste) /Le type linguistique garchouni du Mont-Liban (15^ème siècle) d'après les mss. Vat ar. 640 et B

Re: Impotance of diacritics (was: Looking for transcription ...)

> Subject: Impotance of diacritics (was: Looking for transcription ...) ^ It's a good thing this discussion of the impotence of diacritics from bushmanush didn't also mention \/|å.G4ä, and talked about *tran*scription, instead of *pre*scription, or my spam filter would certainl

Re: Arabic written in Syriac? Arabic written in Tifinagh?

Elaine Keown Tucson Dear Patrick Andries and list: > >Arabic written in Syriac (by Syriac Christians). > Well, the keyword « Garshuni » may help here. Aha!--thank you. Is there much Garshuni material, some especially notable? I understand that Aramaic (= Syriac in this ca

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 09/07/2004 17:06, Mark Davis wrote: I agree with Michael -- diacritic folding is a useful folding to add, independent of the UCA. Also, Peter's remark that: "And it is already covered by the Unicode collation algorithm and default table..." is incorrect. ... Well, I think this depends on whether

Re: Changing UCA primary weights (bad idea)

> Subject: Re: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea) Correcting the subject, just because it bugs me... > You are certainly right that this is not a slam-dunk; there are reasons for > and against it. A

Re: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea)

Mark, your examples are all of the run-of-the-mill Scandinavian variety. Trotting out Polish and Danish doesn't address the issue. The issue is all the phonetic characters, and all the African ones (for instance). > 1) it destabilizes the default tailorable template of ISO/IEC 14651 > and t

Re: Arabic written in Syriac? Arabic written in Tifinagh?

E. Keown a écrit : Elaine Keown Tucson Hi, I'm trying to track down a reference for Arabic written in Syriac (by Syriac Christians). Well, the keyword « Garshuni » may help here. I did a little work on Tifinagh 2-3 years ago. I discovered that it is used to write Arabic by Tua

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 2004.07.09, 17:06, Mark Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > we do not decompose characters like U+00D8 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O > WITH STROKE. [I have felt from the beginning that it was a mistake > to not be consistent in our decompositions Where can one join your party? ;-) > -- but that is wa

Impotance of diacritics (was: Looking for transcription ...)

Mike Ayers wrote: Interesting case, and one reason why diacritic stripping, although brutal, may be desireable - it doesn't pretend to be accurate. An even funnier example than TÃrÅcsik's name, would be Benkà /bÉnkoË/ and BenkÅ /bÉnkÃË/, two famous musicians of Hungary. "Singelacute" Ben

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Michael Everson writes: > I don't agree that Dvorak is "the English name" > for the composer. But I don't agree that "façade" > is correctly spelled in English without the ç > either. The Society for Pure English () disagreed: "We

Re: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea)

comments below âMark - Original Message - From: "Michael Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 09:37 Subject: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea) > At 09:06 -0700 2004-07-09, Mark Davis wrote: > > >There is a proposal being worked on to c

Arabic written in Syriac? Arabic written in Tifinagh?

Elaine Keown Tucson Hi, I'm trying to track down a reference for Arabic written in Syriac (by Syriac Christians). I did a little work on Tifinagh 2-3 years ago. I discovered that it is used to write Arabic by Tuareg women.I hope that the Moroccan Tifinagh proposal includ

RE: Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea)

I think the problem is with the concept of default in this case. The default should be the basis for a specific tailoring, and as a last resort for scripts and letters that do not have specific weights, but each implementation should have it's own weights when it matters. Only rarely is the default

Changing UCA primarly weights (bad idea)

At 09:06 -0700 2004-07-09, Mark Davis wrote: There is a proposal being worked on to change the UCA primary weights, e.g., to give the same primary weights to O and O WITH STROKE, but as of this point the UCA does not fold the following cases marked "!uca". I would like to point out that a number of

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

I agree with Michael -- diacritic folding is a useful folding to add, independent of the UCA. Also, Peter's remark that: "And it is already covered by the Unicode collation algorithm and default table..." is incorrect. The UCA generally follows our decompositions in determining many primary weight

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> > But I don't agree that "façade" > > is correctly spelled in English without the ç > > either. > > On this, we must resign ourselves to disagreement. If we abandon the cedilla I would almost prefer fasade or fakade, since one knows where it's going and the other where it's been. -- J

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 09/07/2004 15:40, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote: From: "Peter Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> But Kaplan is referring to something quite different, optionally ignoring diacritics in search operations. This is indeed desirable, so that a single search can match both Dvorak and DvoÅÃk for example, an

RE: Diacritic and similar foldings and spam filtering

Title: RE: Diacritic and similar foldings and spam filtering > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Peter Kirk > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 1:00 AM > Indeed. I wouldn't suggest going beyond the clearly > shape-based. But it > is hard to know where to draw the

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Michael Everson > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 2:30 AM > I wouldn't consider that good typography, that's all I'm saying.     I agree.  H

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Michael Everson > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:13 AM > At 06:55 -0700 2004-07-09, Mark Davis wrote: > >Of course, that's true about Köln. My p

Re: UTF Magic Pocket Encoders

Hello, I had written: While not being ASCII proper, these MPEs use only characters that were already present in CP 437 (the original PC code). Doug Ewell wrote: Unfortunately, neither the proper apostrophe â nor the copyright  and trademark â symbols appear in CP437. Sorry for my sloppy wording. I

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

From: "Peter Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > But Kaplan is referring to something quite different, optionally > ignoring diacritics in search operations. This is indeed desirable, so > that a single search can match both Dvorak and DvoÅÃk for example, and > so that the one doing the search does not ne

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Quoting Michael Everson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > At 06:55 -0700 2004-07-09, Mark Davis wrote: > >Of course, that's true about Köln. My point was that after all this time, > >the use of Dvorak or Tchaikovsky are *now* the English names for what > >originated in a different language. > > I don't agre

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 06:55 -0700 2004-07-09, Mark Davis wrote: Of course, that's true about Köln. My point was that after all this time, the use of Dvorak or Tchaikovsky are *now* the English names for what originated in a different language. I don't agree that Dvorak is "the English name" for the composer. But I d

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Whether it is a matter of "typography" or not depends on what the input text is. Setting the letters D v o Å Ã k as "Dvorak" would indeed be bad typography. Setting the letters D v o r a k as "Dvorak" would be perfect fine typography. âMark - Original Message - From: "Michael Everson" <

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Of course, that's true about KÃln. My point was that after all this time, the use of Dvorak or Tchaikovsky are *now* the English names for what originated in a different language. âMark - Original Message - From: "Jony Rosenne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday,

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Pronunciation keys in dictionaries are a kind of transliteration. We still need those (well, I do, at least). Ted On Friday, July 09, 2004 1:08 AM, Jony Rosenne wrote: > Now that we have moved from the world of typewriters, that imposed technical > constraints on the writer, such as being able to

[OT] ISO 8859-12

Dear List Members, Please excuse a short OT question, as I'm sure several persons on this list can answer this and it don't need a long discussion: Out of historic interest, what is the story of the skipped ISO 8859-12 character set? The WWW offers two different theories: a) was intended for Ga

Re: Diacritic and similar foldings and spam filtering

On 09/07/2004 00:01, Kenneth Whistler wrote: Peter Kirk said: ... António ... Actually I wrote "Ant", o acute, "nio" in a UTF-8 encoded message. So here is another reason for diacritic folding: to avoid one's messages, and potentially also web pages etc, being munged by non-Unicode compatible so

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 17:43 -0700 2004-07-08, Mark Davis wrote: > Why would anyone want to do that? I tend to be with you on this, that it does little harm to retain accents. However, most major periodic popular publications have this practice; for example The Economist keeps accents for French, German, Spanish, Ita

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 09/07/2004 01:41, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote: From: "Michael Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think it's stupid (in general) to argue for stripping a letter of diacritics. If a reader is ignorant of their meaning, that can be cured. But if they are meaningful, stripping them is just misspell

Re: Diacritic and similar foldings and spam filtering

On 09/07/2004 00:01, Kenneth Whistler wrote: Peter Kirk said: I made a serious point, not apparently made in the UTR draft, that diacritic folding may be useful for spam filtering and similar applications including finding misleading URIs. This seems like a reasonable point to make and t

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Starner > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 9:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration > standards latin- >arabic > > > > transliteration is no longer

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Jony Rosenne scripsit: > I doubt it makes much sense to the casual reader. Witness how nearly every > radio and television pronounces New Delhi as New Del-hi. O pity the poor poor Zippity, For he can eat nothing but Greli, A plant that grows only In New Caledony, While the Zippity lives in

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Sorry, I meant Leghorn. Jony > -Original Message- > From: Simon Montagu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 9:19 AM > To: Jony Rosenne > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration > standards latin- >arabic > > > Jony Rosenne