l characters are more expensive than
ordinary graphic symbols.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 12 Aug 2011, at 08:13, Janusz S. Bień wrote:
> Where the details of the proposed characters are available?
> I'm especially interested in Old Hungarian.
See http://std.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n4110.pdf
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
I'd like to invite everyone to support this worthwhile project:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1496420787/the-endangered-alphabets-project/
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 19 Aug 2011, at 14:29, Petr Tomasek wrote:
> I would like to ask why there are no PUA parts which would be reserved for
> RTL scripts (i.e. would have the directionality set to "strong RTL").
>
> Thanks!
>
> P.T.
This is a very good question.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
t; There's a lot of misinformation and FUD about the PUA, and unfortunately
> I expect at least one response of the form "The PUA is evil, don't use
> it," which accomplishes very little.
I just think we need some PUA that's RTL.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 19 Aug 2011, at 15:24, Shriramana Sharma wrote:
> On 08/19/2011 07:13 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
>> This is a very good question.
>
> It seems Michael speaks tongue-in-cheek.
Not at all. I think there should be a RTL PUA.
> I personally don't see the point in allocati
Arabic
characters.
> In which case, the only change that needs to be done to affirm that the PUA
> can be used for both LTR and RTL scripts is to change the BC of all those
> characters to ON.
I wouldn't support that.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
nce your invented script is LTR, you don't have any problem with
directionality. The same is not true for RTL invented scripts.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 19 Aug 2011, at 15:51, Shriramana Sharma wrote:
> On 08/19/2011 08:11 PM, vanis...@boil.afraid.org wrote:
>> why there weren't private use Variation Selectors.
>
> Because you are already free to use PUA codepoints as VSs?
Because the existing VSs are sufficient?
Mi
support that.
>
> OK -- but I entreat you to look at the bigger picture by which allocating RTL
> ranges in the PUA would not solve the situation for unencoded Indic-style
> scripts.
Indic scripts have LTR directionality. They can use PUA and do whatever is
needed for the *other* challenges inherent in Indic fonts. A private RTL script
cannot use the PUA and have the same level of support.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
st as far as directionality goes. A CSUR RTL script
simply can't, and do you really think that "defining the properties" will
effectively override the system-level expectations for LTR PUA on multiple
platforms?
Very very very unlikely.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
sion in
> the first place.) Aren't we supposed to do something about that?
I agree. How much RTL PUA space do you think there should be, Mark?
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 19 Aug 2011, at 16:05, Shriramana Sharma wrote:
> On 08/19/2011 08:03 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
>> On 19 Aug 2011, at 15:13, Doug Ewell wrote:
>>
>>> The PUA is supposed to be a free and open sandbox, without reserved
>>> or allocated zones.
>>
>
On 19 Aug 2011, at 16:16, Shriramana Sharma wrote:
> Which then again brings us back to Doug's previous point that these should be
> (have been) assigned some more neutral BC such as ON.
That train has left the station, though.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
that there is a suggestion that some *new* hunk of PUA be
> created that is R, in order to balance the existing L. Is that right?
Yes, that is the suggestion.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
it be so much
> harder to write RTL?
This is the core of the problem.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 19 Aug 2011, at 17:06, Mittelstein, Matthias wrote:
> You are looking for PUA characters with RTL attributes.
> I was missing combining PUA characters and PUA characters with individual
> AsianWiths attributes.
Directionality is a very different property than those.
Michael Evers
fact that LTR people can get by with just a font. Why should it be so much
> harder to write RTL?
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
RTL PUA zone in Plane 14, which is mostly empty, and expected to remain
so, and you're done.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
> plane 3, all non-Han will likely fit into the SMP. (Michael, you can correct
> me on this if I'm wrong.)
I wouldn't like to guarantee that non-Han won't spill over out of the SMP, but
I doubt we'd fill Plane 4.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
imilar scripts that treat numbers as Arabic does.
> (How many more are there anyway?)
No one knows. :-)
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 21 Aug 2011, at 10:43, Jonathan Rosenne wrote:
> Yes, this is why an RTL etc. PUA area is quite useful.
>
> BTW, I am not aware of joining in properly written cursive Hebrew.
I've seen a nice shin-lamed ligature in some styles.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
hink, practical and certainly not putting RTL and LTR users on the same
level in terms of PUA usage.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
om L to ON.
Which is why that will not be proposed.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
r LAMED + ALEF =
> ALEF_LAMED_LIGATURE ?
The specific shape of that ligature is not a result of the directionality
property.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
"Bangla" though there are many script users who
do.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 11 Sep 2011, at 00:23, Richard Wordingham wrote:
> A font need not support such ligation, but a glyph for U+FB01 must
> ligate the letters - otherwise it's not U+FB01!
Not in monowidth, it doesn't.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
not ever, be changed.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
y Unicode through its well researched descriptions about the
> characters 09F0 and 09F1 as Bengali letter this and this ?
Most likely he will be glad for his pay and get on with his job without
worrying about something unimportant like this.
At this point, I think I have to make a plea: Sara
Steve Jobs made so much possible for so many. I can hardly imagine my work with
Unicode or as a publisher without his innovation.
Farewell, Steve.
Oṁ maṇi padme hūṁ.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 19 Oct 2011, at 18:40, Andreas Prilop wrote:
> What is specifically Yiddish about these digraphs?
They are used in Yiddish orthography.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
utiful language with literature and poetry. And
it is written in a script which in my native language is called Latin.
And I don't complain about it.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
found glyph.
I see Sinhala text.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 21 Nov 2011, at 07:23, Julian Bradfield wrote:
> Marking the (usually automatic) elisions is markup for elementary students.
I can't think of any reason why this shouldn't be achievable in plain text.
Many encoded characters exist for paedagogical reasons.
Michael E
On 17 Dec 2011, at 11:41, Raymond Mercier wrote:
> Why has Hittite cuneiform not yet been included ?
Hittite cuneiform is a subset of http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U12000.pdf
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
"c" is [k] [s] [ts] [tʃ] [ʔ] and so on.
> Compare the CJK signs: the Japanese -kun and -on readings are included in
> unihan along with the Chinese readings.
Oh... you'd like annotations to the names list?
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Volapük... does anyone know if any other
language treats ä/ö/ü in the same way?
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 1 Jan 2012, at 15:54, Peter Cyrus wrote:
> German does both, so there may be a CLDR locale for the choice you need.
I think German interfiles a/ä, and doesn't treat a and ä as separate letters
though.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 1 Jan 2012, at 17:56, Peter Cyrus wrote:
> Sounds like Michael could use the Austrian system.
Except that the Mac OS does not offer an Austrian phone-book sort. So I shall
have to hope that a Volapük CLDR locale can be produced.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 1 Jan 2012, at 19:46, Julian Bradfield wrote:
> On 2012-01-01, Michael Everson wrote:
>> Except that the Mac OS does not offer an Austrian phone-book sort. So I
>> shall have to hope that a Volapük CLDR locale can be produced.
>
> I thought MacOS was a real operating
ant doing the Austrian phonebook variant you mention.
>
> Maybe you could file a ticket for adding that to CLDR. (Using that
> same tailoring for Volapük is a separate matter.)
I don't really care about Austrian sorting. I need to sort Volapük data.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 1 Jan 2012, at 19:46, Julian Bradfield wrote:
> I thought MacOS was a real operating system underneath the glitz?
So it is. Do you know how to compile system-level sorting algorithms for such a
real operating system?
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 1 Jan 2012, at 21:13, Erkki I Kolehmainen wrote:
> How much data do you have for Volapük?
More than anyone else, and we need a locale. I did not know there were two
lists.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
ungarian
> names of foreign (German) origin, "ä" is sorted as "a").
>
> So Hungarian is neither a perfect fit as a "substitute locale" for Volapük.
Plus it treats a number of diagraphs as letters and that would not be
appropriate for Volapük.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
On 3 Jan 2012, at 16:26, John H. Jenkins wrote:
> My own feeling is that either #1 or #2 would be best, given its specialized
> nature.
I'd've gone for #3. The UCS has lots of "specialized" characters.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
> plain text.
What's the inline markup for "display this glyph upside down"?
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
At 14:22 -0700 2003-08-08, Kenneth Whistler wrote:
Philippe, you are tilting at windmills, here. There is no chance
that the UTC is going to consider such a character, in my
assessment, let alone give it the properties you suggest.
Nor WG2 either.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography
ds Sterling (£), and in Dublin euro (*).
Ireland, as a member of the European Monetary
Union, is one of the countries which uses euros,
which is why you use them in Dublin. The United
Kingdom is not a member of the EMU, which is why
you use pounds in Belfast.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
half-litre can of Guinness fits perfectly into the standard Irish
pint glass. I mean perfectly. I just poured one. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 13:18 +0200 2003-08-19, Pim Blokland wrote:
You might as well suggest we abolish the yard altogether!
What a superb idea.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 08:41 -0400 2003-08-19, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
At 13:18 +0200 2003-08-19, Pim Blokland wrote:
>You might as well suggest we abolish the yard altogether!
What a superb idea.
'Sblood, nay! I love the metric system as well as any, but have no
desire to have
At 08:37 -0700 2003-08-19, Doug Ewell wrote:
Around the 1970s, it became fashionable for baseball stadiums to display
field dimensions on the outfield walls in meters as well as feet.
Because of the Canadians?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 10:39 -0400 2003-08-19, John Cowan wrote:
Michael. Look up "yard" in that OED of yours. Then tell me again just
how much you wish to have it "abolished".
It will be a great day when the US finally accepts and implements the
metric system.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
How is it that Unicode doesn't satisfy the requirements of the
languages of Africa?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
is when it encounters a Unicode character, it sees
if it's in the current font. If it's not, it starts looking through
all the other fonts until it finds one that is suitable. The Last
Resort Font has glyphs for all the characters, so it's the last one
looked at.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
27;t in any usable font.
If you have a Last Resort style font, Pango should pick it up as well.
I don't know what Pango is but I guess it isn't relevant to me...
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
's no available glyph the the LRF is displayed. It's the "last
resort".
There are, of course, some lovely easter-eggs in the font
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 17:26 -0400 2003-08-19, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
No. It generates much much better glyphs than that. See
http://developer.apple.com/fonts/LastResortFont/
Out of mild curiosity: (a) what font did you use to create the legends
in the frame of each glyph;
Chicago.
(b) are
it 1987.(Long before Worldscript I admit.)
And years before that there was the Osborne with its dot-matrix
miracles.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
a dot beneath it)
U+1E33
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 05:15 -0700 2003-08-21, Peter Kirk wrote:
On 21/08/2003 03:14, Michael Everson wrote:
At 10:59 +0100 2003-08-21, Paul James Cowie wrote:
the sign used for aleph (looks like a 3, but isn't, obviously)
Not encoded yet.
What are you using for ayin?
EGYPTOLOGICAL AYIN? I don't t
At 20:46 -0400 2003-08-27, Jonathan Claggett wrote:
This question has probably been addressed in the FAQs somewhere and I
missed it. Are there distinct code points for non-lining figures?
Nope. Use font attributes.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
] there is really
different enough from U+02BD given that the sample glyphs are all
from italic fonts.
I'll be answering this in another posting.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to add a combining
Egyptological ring-thingy to Unicode. It is not a productive mark. A
capital and small letter i with a deformed dot is what's needed,
that's all.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
a special diacritic, but I do not propose
to encode the special diacritic separately, since it is not
productive. So I do not propose any decomposition for the character.
And I do not believe that the EGYPTOLOGICAL YOD can be encoded with
combining characters already in the standard.
--
Mic
in a new version of Unicode (will be 4.1) or an amendment to ISO
10646 (I don't know what timetable is in place for publishing further
amendments).
And it will be two years before the LR font has to be updated
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
are recommended by some for this purpose) but in
my experience neither cuneiformists nor medievalists have accepted
the CEILING characters. A proposal for medieval Nordic characters
will contain these.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
we next going to get proposals for separate full stops and commas
for Egyptology, for cuneiform transliteration, and for medieval
Nordic?
Of course not. Though there will be things you doubtless dislike.
Where does this stop?
It stops when the overunifications are quashed, I guess. The work is
slow, but w
Ps
Right ceiling has a general category of Sm
Looks like an inconsistency which can be resolved in two ways:
1) Add new punctuation characters and leave these ones as symbols;
Yes!
2) Adjust the categories of these ones to Ps.
No!
And what about bidi mirroring?
These should function just like th
At 22:15 -0700 2003-09-05, Doug Ewell wrote:
Can anyone help me find a keyboard layout for Latin-script Tatar?
Please reply off-line. (Apologies for the cross-posting.)
I have one. Of course. ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
name
working with me, it's Tai Le. The Le by the way
is pronounced just like the masculine definite
article in French. Donc « Taï Le ».
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 10:02 -0700 2003-09-11, Richard Cook wrote:
I'm guessing that "Tai Le" would be the exonym
(Chinese name), while "TAI NÜA" is the autonym.
Don't guess. The Chinese name is Dehong Dai.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 11:16 -0700 2003-09-11, Richard Cook wrote:
Well, "Le" is a Chinese (Mandarin) syllable, while "NÜA" is not ...
They wrote "Le" in Tai Le script.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
mmercial Policies Steering Group is proposing a royalty on
commercial use of ISO language, country and currency codes. The
whole idea seems absurd. On what grounds could uttering lang="en-US"
be subject to any intellectual property right that justified any
royalty demand?"
G
r providing the
intellectual property required to incorporate the value-added
features into the product."
Golly, does that mean they'll pay people like me if they get
royalties from people using ISO/IEC 10646?
Heh. Of course not.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
g, giant font ..."
I was asked how I describe it briefly to laymen. And I usually say
"Unicode is like a big, giant font that is supposed to contain all
the letters of all the alphabets of all the languages in the world."
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
(zeros and ones)."
Indeed. But the layman knows what a font is, and an alphabet.
"Characters" has to come in the sentence after. ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
And on tis very day, my copy of Unicode 4.0 has arrived. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
7;s A B C's, He Makes 1's and 0's
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
time I was beavering away on some proposal or other down the pub,
and have been accosted with a "what are you doing?"
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
nothing in the paragraph in question to indicate that there is a
missing character--nor is there a numeric code displayed for a savvy user to
look up.
I see the ç when I view the page and I'm using Safari as you are.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Script Encoding
Initiative http://www.unicode.org/sei if you can.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
ac OS 3.1 on it?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 06:08 -0700 2003-09-26, Peter Kirk wrote:
And probably most users of non-Windows systems are either reasonably
computer literate or are supported by IT departments which should do
the upgrade.
Or have Macs and don't need any help. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * *
currently arguing
about. I was also told that they were ignored by whomever they
contacted.
I do NOT think that reporting this kind of rumour is appropriate.
Facts, please.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 15:40 -0700 2003-09-26, Elaine Keown wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
> Facts, please.
You're right---I should have written him privately and referred him
to the parties in question, whose names were also given to me by two
people on separate occasions. It's difficult for me
At 15:48 -0700 2003-09-26, Elaine Keown wrote
What is the absolute minimal font requirement for a Unicode proposal?
Glyphs. Is there a difficulty?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 16:27 -0700 2003-09-26, Peter Kirk wrote:
On 26/09/2003 14:31, Michael Everson wrote:
At 06:08 -0700 2003-09-26, Peter Kirk wrote:
And probably most users of non-Windows systems are either
reasonably computer literate or are supported by IT departments
which should do the upgrade.
Or have
T, as well as MB, ME,
MF, MI, and MJ are available. But indeed any string other than CS
will be suitable.
2. Immediately change the policy to allow the re-use of codes only
after a significant period of time. We suggest 100 years.
--
Michael Everson
Convener, NSAI/ICTSCC/SC4
resting document. No samples, of course. >:-(
There are some characters there already in the standard; I'll do some
work on making a unification list before the WG2 meeting.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Here are a number of new WG2 documents and revisions.
N2641
Proposal to encode one Irish phonetic letter
Everson
2003-10-05
http://www.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2641.pdf
N2640
Revised proposal to encode the AFGHANI SIGN in the UCS
Michael Everson and Roozbeh Pournader
2003-10-02
http
ave to be
appointed as has been done for RFC 3066, and it would be a right
bloody mess.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Someone calculated that at the present rate of character encoding
(1000 a year) it would take something like 700 years to fill the
whole range of characters
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 11:07 -0700 2003-10-16, Rick McGowan wrote:
John Cowan suggested:
The earth is finite and small, and there's no place for
large writing systems to hide from the eagle eyes of the Roadmappers.
Central Asia.
Our eyes are everywhere.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * *
lanes.
Thanks, Rick, for not telling them all about all those secret
characters that we have withheld from the Roadmaps ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
wn objects.
There is no truth whatsoever in your supposition that ISO/IEC 10646's
objectives have anything to do with "integrating" other
specifications. ISO/IEC 10646's objectives are to provide an
architecture and character set.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
ch are guaranteed to have no meanings
at all).
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
is just a cypher for Latin.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
ch as corporate logographs and other visual trademarks (including
the famous Apple logo character in the MacRoman encoding, or the
extra PUAs needed by Microsoft in its OpenType fonts for Office...)
No.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
in Klingon script, one might well take notice. CSUR
gives an encoding which can be used; we have yet to see it being used!
More codepoints may allow more scripts not to be rejected in the first place.
Space is not why Klingon was not accepted.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography
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