I've dipped in and out of this thread over the months (!), and I wonder
if the LMS setup that I travel with might be another solution. Following
a post from several years ago, I set up LMS on a WiFi enabled Western
Digital 2Tb hard drive. This has two WiFi cards, so it sets its own
network up
I use a dedicated charger, and some switching relays. And separate
buck converter.Im also only powering an old model A with usb WiFi.
That all in one board is nice, but it made me nervous when it smoked.
They replaced it under warranty, but kinda blamed me for shorting
it.which Im
paul- wrote:
> Be wary of that board from adafruit..Ive had one burn up during
> charging.
Ok, thanks.
Im doing a charge and battery endurance test now, and I dont have a
case yet.
Is there another UPS controller that you know of that will run on wall
power when plugged in, charge the
Be wary of that board from adafruit..Ive had one burn up during
charging.
piCorePlayer a small player for the Raspberry Pi in RAM.
Homepage: https://www.picoreplayer.org
Please 'donate'
I took a break from the software and operating system stuff to work on
the custom hardware needed to go inside this beast, as one guy
described. I had to learn to solder very small stuff including board
soldering. After watching several YouTube videos, I tried my had at it
today. I was
kidstypike wrote:
> Pi/piCorePlayer running in AP mode worked flawlessly for me I used it in
> the car for some months, but it became a bit of a faff, I now use a
> phone with a large micro SDcard in car.
>
> I also used it a couple of times in a holiday home with no
> router/network. Again it
Pi/piCorePlayer running in AP mode worked flawlessly for me I used it in
the car for some months, but it became a bit of a faff, I now use a
phone with a large micro SDcard in car.
I also used it a couple of times in a holiday home with no
router/network. Again it worked absolutely without
AirFiero wrote:
> Ok, thanks.
>
> What is the term AP?
Access Point.
*Server - LMS 7.9.2 *Pi3B+/pCP 4.1.0 25K library playlists & LMS cache
on SSD (ntfs)
*Study -* Pi3B+/pCP 4.1.0/pi screen/HiFiBerry DAC+/jivelite,
*Lounge* - Pi2/pCP 4.1.0 > HiFiBerry DIGI+ > AudioEngine DAC1 > AVI DM5
Paul Webster wrote:
> My reading of it is that pCP with built-in AP mode makes it easier.
> One of the posts says that LMS (on the pCP machine) works when device is
> in AP mode.
> So ... install LMS on the same pCP system (using the pCP menu to do it)
> and then point LMS to the locally stored
AirFiero wrote:
> So...this method *wont* work any more?
My reading of it is that pCP with built-in AP mode makes it easier.
One of the posts says that LMS (on the pCP machine) works when device is
in AP mode.
So ... install LMS on the same pCP system (using the pCP menu to do it)
and then
paul- wrote:
> Don't read too much of the early pages, that was before AP mode was
> created on pCP.
So...this method *wont* work any more?
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Don't read too much of the early pages, that was before AP mode was
created on pCP.
piCorePlayer a small player for the Raspberry Pi in RAM.
Homepage: https://www.picoreplayer.org
Please 'donate'
Jeff07971 wrote:
> https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107995-picoreplayer-without-network=894950=1#post894950
I'm only on page two of the five pages, but it appears that workarounds
are possible.
Once again, Jeff for the score and an assist to Paul. :cool:
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107995-picoreplayer-without-network=894950=1#post894950
*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3,Receiver,SqueezeLite-X,PiCorePlayer x3
*Server:* LMS Version: Latest Nightly on Centos 7.5 VM on ESXi 6.5.0U2
on Dell T320
*Plugins:*
paul- wrote:
> It absolutely needs to run LMS to play music stored locally. The
> device must also be connected to a network, or at a minimum running AP
> mode, so that you can connect to it to control it.
Ah, so technically, it *can't* operate as a standalone player like an
iPod. That's a
AirFiero wrote:
>
> How do I get pcp to look at the files on the pi without the pi connected
> to the network?
>
> Do I need to run LMS on the pi at all, if I want a standalone player?
It absolutely needs to run LMS to play music stored locally. The
device must also be connected to a
AirFiero wrote:
> New issue...
>
> I tried my picoreplayer in my shop, which isn't able to connect to LMS.
> I don't want the player to use LMS all the time to access music on the
> network. I need it to be able to read the files on the ext4 partition
> when being used as a standalone player.
New issue...
I tried my picoreplayer in my shop, which isn't able to connect to LMS.
I don't want the player to use LMS all the time to access music on the
network. I need it to be able to read the files on the ext4 partition
when being used as a standalone player. Without being connected to
Holy smoke. I loaded more music on the Pi, have been listening while
working, and the sound quality is very impressive. The sound seems to
have more detail and depth than an iPod, even using FLAC on the Pi
versus WAV on the iPod. This is the result Id hoped for. Great work, Pi
people, DAC people
Jeff07971 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for that but maybe consider a donating the price of a steak
> dinner and a beer or three to the pCP team so they can keep improving
> their great software !
>
> 'Donate'
>
AirFiero wrote:
> Jeff, I owe you a steak dinner and a beer or three! Can't say thanks
> enough.
Hi,
Thanks for that but maybe consider a donating the price of a steak
dinner and a beer or three to the pCP team so they can keep improving
their great software !
'Donate'
Man in a van wrote:
> Hoisted on my own pointed stick :eek:
You should eat more fresh fruit!
*Server - LMS 7.9.2 *Pi3B+/pCP 4.1.0 25K library playlists & LMS cache
on SSD (ntfs)
*Study -* Pi3B+/pCP 4.1.0/pi screen/HiFiBerry DAC+/jivelite,
*Lounge* - Pi2/pCP 4.1.0 > HiFiBerry DIGI+ >
kidstypike wrote:
> Well, I thought I'd get it in before you did, after all this seat-edge
> nail-biting stuff! ;):cool:
Hoisted on my own pointed stick :eek:
Man in a van's Profile:
Man in a van wrote:
> 'ere! who said you could use that? :D:D:p(I thought I had first dibs:))
> but it's all in a good cause :cool:
>
> ronnie
Well, I thought I'd get it in before you did, after all this seat-edge
nail-biting stuff! ;):cool:
*Server - LMS 7.9.2 *Pi3B+/pCP 4.1.0 25K library
kidstypike wrote:
> 27428
'ere! who said you could use that? :D:D:p(I thought I had first dibs:))
but it's all in a good cause :cool:
ronnie
Man in a van's Profile:
paul- wrote:
> I think this is a record.20 pages for one user. but glad the
> gang got you there.
Sorry if it ate up too many resources!
> The big questions I have.
>
> Did you go back and document the steps in a fashion that you understand?
> Just in case your card crashes, and you
I think this is a record.20 pages for one user. but glad the
gang got you there.
The big questions I have.
Did you go back and document the steps in a fashion that you understand?
Just in case your card crashes, and you have to start from scratch.
piCorePlayer a small player for the
Paul Webster wrote:
> Maybe you could make them some chocolate chip cookies with Splenda and
> apple sauce.
:D. Ill leave that up to them ;)
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View
*SUCCESS!!!*
There's music playing on my PiCorePod from the SD card! Ye!
The sound is really good, too.
Thanks again, folks. Seriously, I owe Jeff a debt of thanks. Paul and
crew, for you folks would a paypal donation to picoreplayer do? Or do
you need steak dinners, too? ;)
27429
Jeff07971 wrote:
> No rest for the wicked obviously !
>
> As long as LMS is running on Pi
>
> In a web browser on pc go to :9000
>
> Bottom right "Settings"
>
> Have fun
>
> Going to bed now !
>
> Jeff
Jeff, I owe you a steak dinner and a beer or three! Can't say thanks
enough.
AirFiero wrote:
> Now I have to figure out how to get picoreplayer to see the files. It
> doesn't show anything in the picoreplayer library. I'm trying to find
> where you point picoreplayer to the music directory.
No rest for the wicked obviously !
As long as LMS is running on Pi
In a web
kidstypike wrote:
> 27428
What??
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106833
Jeff07971 wrote:
> My work here is done :D:D:D
>
> Jeff
Now I have to figure out how to get picoreplayer to see the files. It
doesn't show anything in the picoreplayer library.
AirFiero's Profile:
My work here is done :D:D:D
Jeff
*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3,Receiver,SqueezeLite-X,PiCorePlayer x3
*Server:* LMS Version: Latest Nightly on Centos 7.5 VM on ESXi 6.5.0U2
on Dell T320
*Plugins:*
AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud/Spotty/Player
Groups
*Remotes:*
:d
*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3,Receiver,SqueezeLite-X,PiCorePlayer x3
*Server:* LMS Version: Latest Nightly on Centos 7.5 VM on ESXi 6.5.0U2
on Dell T320
*Plugins:*
AutoRescan/BBCiPlayer/PowerSave/PowerSwitchIII/Squeezecloud/Spotty/Player
Groups
*Remotes:*
AirFiero wrote:
> The files are copying! :D
27428
+---+
|Filename: picard.jpg |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27428|
Jeff07971 wrote:
> OK run the command
>
> "chown -R tc:staff /mnt/musicstore"
>
> then pcp br
>
> and retry from windows
>
> You may need to do "sudo chown -R tc:staff /mnt/musicstore"
The files are copying! :D
OK and be carefull what you share in screenshots !!
Nothing too bad on these but..
Apparently in Windows 10 there a "snip tool" or theres a free program
called greenshot which I and others on here use.
Greenshot allows you to "Window" a screenshot not sure about snip tool
Jeff
OK run the command
"chown -R tc:staff /mnt/musicstore"
then pcp br
and retry from windows
You may need to do "sudo chown -R tc:staff /mnt/musicstore"
*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3,Receiver,SqueezeLite-X,PiCorePlayer x3
*Server:* LMS Version: Latest Nightly on Centos 7.5 VM on ESXi
Here is the second part...
27426
+---+
|Filename: Screenshot (2).jpg |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27426|
Sorry about the pictures. I just figured out screen shots, but don't
have a good editor on this laptop.
Here is the LMS screen
27425
I'll work on getting you the other data. I can SSH in, I'm using Putty
on my laptop.
+---+
This is a permissions problem as SaMBa has allowed you into the
directory but not to write to it
what do you have set here ?
27423
And how about screenshots rather than photos ?, they're easier to read
!
Do you know how to use ssh (Secure shell) or do you have a monitor and
keyboard
Jeff07971 wrote:
> You cant access a SMB share with an internet browser !!!
>
> Explorer not internet explorer !!!
>
> lost and found will be in the partition you're sharing.
>
> Try right clicking IN EXPLORER not internet explorer !!! and click new
> folder.
>
> Jeff
Sorry, when
Jeff07971 wrote:
> Have you formatted it and set permissions for it (under usb mount in LMS
> tab) ?
Yes.
When I click on "Set Write Permissions", it does this...
27420
27421
+---+
|Filename: 20190524_130206_resized.jpg
AirFiero wrote:
> Typing it as above in a web browser returns "file not found".
> kdysypike's method gives the previously mentioned result, one directory
> 'lost+found' and won't let me open even that directory.
You cant access a SMB share with an internet browser !!!
Explorer not
Jeff07971 wrote:
> Windows 10 will not see SaMBa machines or shares without tweaking
>
> hence you have to type \\ in explorer or as kidsypike
> has shown you
Typing it as above in a web browser returns "file not found".
kdysypike's method gives the previously mentioned result, one directory
AirFiero wrote:
> Yup, got it!
>
> But the pi doesn't want to give access even after entering credentials,
> as shown above. Is there another step for accessing the 3rd partition?
Have you formatted it and set permissions for it (under usb mount in LMS
tab) ?
*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3
kidstypike wrote:
> I'm not sure, but I think you need to type in the password and "set
> password".
>
> 27418
Correct, and done.
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View this
AirFiero wrote:
> Advanced IP Scanner sees the pi and the name I gave it, and I can access
> it with the LMS web browser, but Windows isn't seeing it in Networking.
>
> Do I need to "Install and Enable additional FileSystems"?
Windows 10 will not see SaMBa machines or shares without tweaking
I was able to set the password, but when I open "picoreplayer" in
windows, I only see one directory "lost+found", and if I try to open it,
it says...
27419
+---+
|Filename: 20190524_124340_resized.jpg
There are no default credentials, you must set them. It's right on the
SAMBA setup page.
piCorePlayer a small player for the Raspberry Pi in RAM.
Homepage: https://www.picoreplayer.org
Please 'donate'
paul- wrote:
> There are no default credentials, you must set them. It's right on the
> SAMBA setup page.
Yup, got it!
But the pi doesn't want to give access even after entering credentials,
as shown above. Is there another step for accessing the 3rd partition?
AirFiero wrote:
> That worked, but it's asking for my "network credentials" (I assume it's
> the picoreplayer user and pw?). I'm still using the default, and it
> doesn't seem to like it.
I'm not sure, but I think you need to type in the password and "set
password".
27418
kidstypike wrote:
> What happens if you get up the "Run" dialogue and type
> \\IPaddressofyourPi ?
>
> 27417
That worked, but it's asking for my "network credentials" (I assume it's
the picoreplayer user and pw?). I'm still using the default, and it
doesn't seem to like it.
AirFiero wrote:
> Advanced IP Scanner sees the pi and the name I gave it, and I can access
> it with the LMS web browser, but Windows isn't seeing it in Networking.
What happens if you get up the "Run" dialogue and type
\\IPaddressofyouPi ?
27417
Advanced IP Scanner sees the pi and the name I gave it, and I can access
it with the LMS web browser, but Windows isn't seeing it in Networking.
AirFiero's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=69090
AirFiero wrote:
> That is helpful, but I need to know what interface I use to actually
> copy the files onto the 3rd partition on the Pi SD Card (which has
> already been created). Jeff told me to use Samba, but I don't know the
> whole procedure. Samba is installed on the Pi. Do I need to
kidstypike wrote:
> If you wish to play music files that are stored on your Pi (when you
> eventually get them there), then LMS will need to be running on the Pi.
> You would enter the path to the music files at LMS > Settings > Basic
> Settings, and let LMS scan your music folder.
> You would
AirFiero wrote:
> For testing sound, I using music on the laptop until I can learn how to
> transfer some files to the Pi. Two questions about shared
> music/libraries over the network...
>
>
>
> 2. If I update files or change/add shared music, do I need to reboot the
> pi or is there
For testing sound, I using music on the laptop until I can learn how to
transfer some files to the Pi. Two questions about shared
music/libraries over the network...
1. pcp only seems to be seeing mp3 files, not FLAC or WAV files
2. If I update files or change/add shared music, do I need to
Jeff07971 wrote:
> *Yes*
>
> I showed you how to
>
>
>
> Not that you needed to manually edit config.txt
>
> Jeff
I thought I had already done that. Maybe it got lost in the process. I
re-did it, and now...*I have sound!* Thanks, Jeff and Paul. :cool:
I'm not clear on how to use
AirFiero wrote:
> Paul, please see this post...
>
> https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?106833-Store-files-permanently-on-piCorePlayer=941075=1#post941075
>
> ...did I miss something?
*Yes*
I showed you how to
> just select the correct card on the squeezelite page, and press
paul- wrote:
> You don't need to edit that manually, just select the correct card on
> the squeezelite page, and press save. You will be prompted to reboot.
Paul, please see this post...
You don't need to edit that manually, just select the correct card on
the squeezelite page, and press save. You will be prompted to reboot.
piCorePlayer a small player for the Raspberry Pi in RAM.
Homepage: https://www.picoreplayer.org
Please 'donate'
Looking through the config.txt, this is what is currently in the file:
# onboard audio overlay
dtparam=audio=on
audio_pwm_mode=2
These are the instructions from iquaudio:
To ensure that the IQAUDIO Device drivers are loaded make sure
/boot/config.txt file has the valid
entry below.
a. For
Jeff07971 wrote:
> But you said that you'd tried Volumio with it and that worked ?
>
> As I said I'd go back to the start with a clean SD card and go through
> step by step and then when it is all working faultfind the audio
> output.
>
> Some manfs have a img file for SDcards just to test
But you said that you'd tried Volumio with it and that worked ?
As I said I'd go back to the start with a clean SD card and go through
step by step and then when it is all working faultfind the audio
output.
Some manfs have a img file for SDcards just to test DACs do IQaudio ?
Jeff
Jeff07971 wrote:
> Like this ?
>
> 27398
>
> and soldered the headers to the boards etc ?
The guy at iquaudio put together a special order for me. It's a Pi Zero
with DAC and headphone amp board all presoldered. So unless there's been
a hardware failure, I'm thinking some kind of
Like this ?
27398
and soldered the headers to the boards etc ?
+---+
|Filename: 2019-05-22 19_43_54-Window.jpg |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27398|
Jeff07971 wrote:
> Again not enough explanation ! Where are these files located on the pi
> or the PC ? where are they not showing up ?
>
> Its SaMBa file sharing its only used to transfer music files to the Pi
>
>
>
> Yes it needs to be set in the GUI but I would have left that untill all
>
AirFiero wrote:
> Sorry.
>
> I got file sharing partly set up (some files shared, others not showing
> up) from laptop to pi. The file played on the pi, I had headphones
> connected to the pi but there was no sound. I'm wondering if there's
> something that needs to be set in configuration to
Jeff07971 wrote:
> This is confusing please explain better
>
> Playing from the laptop. How ?
>
> There was no sound. Where from ?
>
> Jeff
Sorry.
I got file sharing partly set up (some files shared, others not showing
up) from laptop to pi. The file played on the pi, I had headphones
AirFiero wrote:
> I got some files working on the Pi Zero, playing from the laptop. But
> there was no sound. In the change Squeezelite settings I tried
> changing the output setting from ALSA to hw:CARD=DAC, because Im
> using a DAC hat.
This is confusing please explain better
Playing
I got some files working on the Pi Zero, playing from the laptop. But
there was no sound. In the change Squeezelite settings I tried
changing the output setting from ALSA to hw:CARD=DAC, because Im
using a DAC hat. I saved and rebooted, now it says Squeezelite isnt
running and the pi zero
AirFiero wrote:
> I want this player to be standalone so that I can take it with me, not
> dependent upon network attached music.
OK, that's what I was referring to as 'the former' - it's quite doable.
The Pi Zero won't make for the snappiest server, but it's quite usable.
With LMS running
It looks like I missed a step, because when I click to start Samba it
says Samba but not configured.exiting
Do I need to install Samba on my laptop?
AirFiero's Profile:
AirFiero wrote:
> The latter is correct, I'm trying to build a standalone player. Think a
> "PiCorePod", like an iPod, but with newer and more up to date DAC
> hardware, audio codecs, capabilities, storage space and possible
> customization.
So a stand-alone player needs only to run
WOW, check that, the 512gb card is down to USD $82.99 !!
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1442231-REG/lexar_lsdmi512bbnl633a_512gb_high_performance_633x_micro.html?sts=pi
AirFiero's Profile:
chill wrote:
> Yeah, I've been following this thread with interest - in fact it's what
> inspired me to get a bigger MicroSD card and make a third partition for
> my music for my camper van Squeezebox system.
>
> But what I'm not clear on is whether AirFiero wants a totally
> stand-alone
S O R R Y F I R S T P O S T I S H E R E !
Write SDCard and setup wifi using the supplicant.conf method
Invoke web browser to RPi0W's ip address
Switch to advanced mode
Resize OS partition to 2G
Name SL (If you wish)
Install LMS
Install JiveLite
Install Samba
Reboot
ssh in
Enjoy
27385
Hope I havent forgotten anything and remember this is NOT recommended !
Note each step and keep a backup of your music !
Good luck
Jeff
+---+
|Filename: IMG_0240.jpg
Cont ! ...
Add some directories
27380
27381
Add some Music !
27382
Setup LMS
27383
27384
+---+
|Filename: 2019-05-20 23_04_51-Window.jpg |
|Download:
Write SDCard and setup wifi using the supplicant.conf method
Invoke web browser to RPi0W's ip address
Switch to advanced mode
Resize OS partition to 2G
Name SL (If you wish)
Install LMS
Install JiveLite
Install Samba
Reboot
ssh in and create partition using rest of sdcard
27375
pcp br
Jeff07971 wrote:
> Chill,
>
> The aim is here
> https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?106833-Store-files-permanently-on-piCorePlayer=940821=1#post940821
>
> and a few more here
>
Jeff07971 wrote:
>
> The aim is here
> https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?106833-Store-files-permanently-on-piCorePlayer=940821=1#post940821
>
> and a few more here
> https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?106833-Store-files-permanently-on-piCorePlayer=940904=1#post940904
>
Chill,
The aim is here
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?106833-Store-files-permanently-on-piCorePlayer=940821=1#post940821
and a few more here
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?106833-Store-files-permanently-on-piCorePlayer=940904=1#post940904
But I think you are
AirFiero wrote:
> I fired everything up again, LMS is started on the laptop, the LMS web
> interface sees the picoreplayer, but the Squeeze Audio Device doesn't
> see LMS running.
I think this might indicate a misunderstanding. piCorePlayer on the
Zero is capable of running its own
I'm confused with your terminology and the use of the PC with LMS.
You can set up pCP on the Pi Zero so that it is visible on the network
and can SSH into it correct ?
Jeff
*Players:* SliMP3,Squeezebox3 x3,Receiver,SqueezeLite-X,PiCorePlayer x3
*Server:* LMS Version: Latest Nightly on
Jeff07971 wrote:
> OK I understand,
>
> As a next step I would try using a windows network share to provide
> music to the LMS/SL/JL on the Pi Zero
>
> This will allow you to evaluate the sound quality and speed (might be an
> issue)
>
> When you have evaluated move to put music on SD card
I fired everything up again, LMS is started on the laptop, the LMS web
interface sees the picoreplayer, but the Squeeze Audio Device doesn't
see LMS running.
AirFiero's Profile:
OK I understand,
As a next step I would try using a windows network share to provide
music to the LMS/SL/JL on the Pi Zero
This will allow you to evaluate the sound quality and speed (might be an
issue)
When you have evaluated move to put music on SD card
Jeff
*Players:*
Jeff07971 wrote:
> Have you installed it ?
Yes, please note the picture about 4 posts up. The window on the left
shows LMS installed and running on my PC/laptop. LMS sees picoreplayer,
but the web interface doesn't see LMS on laptop.
> Paul- Has pointed you to the howto on setting up LMS,
AirFiero wrote:
> Folks...could we *please try* to make this work?? If we try and it
> doesnt work, so be it. But Ive put a lot of time and money into trying
> to make a small, portable and more technically up to date music player.
> Hmmm...it says LMS server not running...
Have you
Folks...could we *please try* to make this work?? If we try and it
doesnt work, so be it. But Ive put a lot of time and money into trying
to make a small, portable and more technically up to date music player.
AirFiero wrote:
>
>
> The next steps to getting this to be a portable music
Jeff07971 wrote:
> From your questions I am thinking that you do not understand the concept
> of the "Squeezebox universe" and pCP is not really for you.
>
>
>
> As a minimum a Squeezebox system consists of 3 parts
>
> 1 The LMS server
> This take music from a source (HDD, NAS or some other
>From your questions I am thinking that you do not understand the concept
of the "Squeezebox universe" and pCP is not really for you.
> Please correct me if Im wrong, but isnt LMS basically just
> streaming software that connects to network storage?
As a minimum a Squeezebox system consists of
Hmmm...it says LMS server not running...
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paul- wrote:
> There are pages on our web site to help installing lms and also setting
> up a music disk. Would recommend leaving the SD card with pCP on it
> alone and just add a USB drive.
Understood, but this particular project needs to use the SD card. I am
trying to build a small,
There are pages on our web site to help installing lms and also setting
up a music disk.
piCorePlayer a small player for the Raspberry Pi in RAM.
Homepage: https://www.picoreplayer.org
Please 'donate'
Success!
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The next steps to getting this to be a portable music player. Advice
badly needed...
1. Create a partition on the SD card for storing music
2. How to give permission to copy files from a Windows computer using a
telnet or other program (there was one mentioned earlier in the
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