Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-16 Thread Paul
--- John Winterflood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Paul wrote: > > I really don't see it that way. The carbon > resistor is > > made of atoms containing charged particles. The > noise > > is relative to the temperature of the charged > > particles. > > Neither do I. I was trying to illustrate that

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-15 Thread John Winterflood
Paul wrote: I really don't see it that way. The carbon resistor is made of atoms containing charged particles. The noise is relative to the temperature of the charged particles. Neither do I. I was trying to illustrate that assigning the noise source to the radiation resistance itself or some

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-15 Thread Paul
--- John Winterflood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > R Stiffler wrote: > > I guess his mail is getting messed up, the > comments you > > make reference to were by Paul Lowrance and not > myself. > > My mistake - sorry about that. Your formatting > (without > caretted indenting) together with my sl

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-15 Thread Paul
2nd attempt to email: --- John Winterflood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > R Stiffler wrote: > > I guess his mail is getting messed up, the > comments you > > make reference to were by Paul Lowrance and not > myself. > > My mistake - sorry about that. Your formatting > (without > caretted indent

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-15 Thread John Winterflood
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: A diode is not of course a very good switch and has a gently changing V/I slope (ie impedance) near zero bias. Which is precisely why you put the transformer in between. That shifts the voltage up the curve of the diode away from the zero bias point. Bear in mind

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to John Winterflood's message of Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:54:51 +0800: Hi, [snip] >With regard to Johnson noise, if you short or open the resistor, then >the entire 4kT watts generated is simply dissipated back into the >sourcing resistor as heat and there is no net power flow. If you load

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread John Winterflood
R Stiffler wrote: I guess his mail is getting messed up, the comments you make reference to were by Paul Lowrance and not myself. My mistake - sorry about that. Your formatting (without caretted indenting) together with my sloppy editing was the cause. Paul wrote: ... Radiation resistance

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread John Winterflood
R Stiffler wrote: I guess his mail is getting messed up, the comments you make reference to were by Paul Lowrance and not myself. My mistake - sorry about that. Your formatting (without caretted indenting) together with my sloppy editing caused that. Paul wrote: ... Radiation resistance ge

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread Paul
EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:38 AM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is > incorrect > > > Indeed, it seems everything I touch lately is > performing highly unusual. People report that my > MEMM > wi

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread R Stiffler
, because I stopped making sense long ago. -Original Message- From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:38 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect Indeed, it seems everything I touch lately is performing highly unusual

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread Paul
: John Winterflood > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:55 AM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is > incorrect > > > R Stiffler wrote: > >

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread Paul
--- John Winterflood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > R Stiffler wrote: > > ... > > Carbon resistors generate more thermal voltage > > noise than Metal film resistors > > This is not really true. We may divide the noise > sources in Carbon > composition resistors into two types: > > 1) True "

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread R Stiffler
I guess his mail is getting messed up, the comments you make reference to were by Paul Lowrance and not myself. Thanks anyway... -Original Message- From: John Winterflood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:55 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: 2nd law

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread John Winterflood
R Stiffler wrote: ... Carbon resistors generate more thermal voltage noise than Metal film resistors This is not really true. We may divide the noise sources in Carbon composition resistors into two types: 1) True "Thermal noise" (also called "Johnson" or "Nyquist" noise) which "is t

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread Paul
OK, this is a little annoying. I sent the following email before the other emails, which went through but the following did not. Has anyone experienced this problem? I am using Yahoo email. Maybe Yahoo doesn't want me anymore. :-( I noticed the yahoo email Search is also failing last few weeks.

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread Paul
Hi Robin, I had a few comments regarding your conversation with R. Stiffler --> --- Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In reply to R Stiffler's message of Mon, 13 Nov > 2006 15:13:45 > -0800: > Hi, > [snip] > >Robin! I'm at a loss? > > > >So you are saying that 'Carbon' has 0 {ze

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread Paul
Yesterday I sent the following to vortex-l@eskimo.com Yet it was populated --> --- Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In reply to Paul's message of Mon, 13 Nov 2006 > 11:27:11 -0800 > (PST): > Hi, > [snip] > >Lets simply. Neither experiment A or B have a power > >source except the

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread Paul
--- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yesterday I sent the following to > vortex-l@eskimo.com > Yet it was populated --- Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yesterday I sent the following to > vortex-l@eskimo.com > Yet it was populated Excuse me. I meant to say, it did not populate. Paul Lowra

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-14 Thread R Stiffler
TED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:58 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-13 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
e itself. IOW no voice -> no noise. However I think I have used such a device maybe once in my lifetime, so my memory isn't all that good on that score. > > > >-Original Message- >From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-13 Thread Paul
--- Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In reply to Paul's message of Mon, 13 Nov 2006 > 11:27:11 -0800 > (PST): > Hi, > [snip] > >Lets simply. Neither experiment A or B have a power > >source except thermal noise. Experiment B radiates > >more power. It is a very simple circuit. Over

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-13 Thread R Stiffler
ay, November 13, 2006 12:48 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect In reply to Paul's message of Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:27:11 -0800 (PST): Hi, [snip] >Lets simply. Neither experiment A or B have a power >source except thermal noise. Experi

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-13 Thread R Stiffler
Why have we tried to decrease the ‘time’ measurement window? Look at the first oscilloscopes, they were deemed a great advance in measurement technology, yet they were slow, the window was broad. Technology improved and we began to see things in waveforms that we were amazed with. The faster the sc

Re: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-13 Thread Robin van Spaandonk
In reply to Paul's message of Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:27:11 -0800 (PST): Hi, [snip] >Lets simply. Neither experiment A or B have a power >source except thermal noise. Experiment B radiates >more power. It is a very simple circuit. Over time, >more energy is leaving experiment B than experiment A. >The

RE: [Vo]: 2nd law of thermodynamics is incorrect

2006-11-13 Thread R Stiffler
Deborah D. L. Chung has been on this issue for some time, the following links may be of interest in ref. to the carbon resistor and excess energy. The Chung's Negative Resistance experiment Dr. Deborah D. L. Chung, professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering at University at Buffalo (UB) h