fications would be
basically incompatible with that. We would be happy to let Web pages
show popup notifications using an icon and unstyled text, but not an
onclick handler.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
clearonfocus" as the
only possible value (indicating the input field or textarea should be
cleared upon focusing it) would probably be most suitable.
...
On Wed, 23 May 2007, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
I don't understand. What use is a default value if you can't edit it?
Why not make the
org/MarkUp/HTMLPlus/htmlplus_16.html> Those
presentational elements continued into HTML 2.0.
HTML has always been a dance between structure and presentation. Too
structural, and humans won't understand it; too presentational, and
computers won't understand it.
--
Matthew Paul T
ng-list" would be even worse. A
mailing list usually has a single address.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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Ian Hickson wrote on 30/07/08 04:08:
>
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2007, at 2:03 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't think "If both attributes are specified, then the ratio of
>>> the specifie
Ian Hickson wrote on 29/07/08 03:21:
>
> On Fri, 10 Aug 2007, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
>...
>> I'm suggesting that since it is common for entire menus -- or
>> toolbars -- to be temporarily irrelevant, such as when focus is in a
>> field or pane where they
e page, a browser might
need to use tooltips or help balloons instead.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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ame wouldn't
be reliable when that doesn't include the path.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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Ian Hickson wrote on 27/05/08 07:47:
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
>
>> On Oct 30, 2007, at 6:01 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005, Matthew Thomas wrote:
>...
>>>> Many applications provide inline help whi
On May 16, 2008, at 5:50 AM, Jon Barnett wrote:
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
Imagine further that this "iPhone" has no user-visible file system. It
stores music, but annoyingly, the device vendor doesn't want to let
nt, another problem with
those solutions is that they require separate POSTs. The Yahoo
uploader uses a separate request for each file. The File Upload API
has functions like getDataAsHexBinary that, I guess, could put a
file's data into a hidden input field, but that data still wouldn't b
tical for internal fragments
because you usually can't tell where the fragment ends, and impractical
for external resources because -- just as with target="_blank" --
responsiveness would require showing the pane before the resource
finishes loading.)
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On May 9, 2007, at 2:27 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
On May 8, 2007, at 9:06 PM, Kristof Zelechovski wrote:
...
From the behavioral point of view: The purpose of a LABEL control is
to redirect focus on click. It does not make much sense with a
TEXTAREA control that is usually big enough
dn't bother with this because they knew that media was going
to be, and search already was, handled differently in IE7 anyway.
> and why would it be more successful in practice?
Because it would be cross-browser.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
asier to
implement than existing footnote/endnote mechanisms: authors wouldn't
need to provide special "Back to article" links, or insert dummy
id=/name= attributes to serve as the targets of those links. It would
work equally well regardless of where the note text was placed -- at
the e
tical importance.
There are still 7992 years before we need to have a Y10K solution
implemented. Thus we can safely leave it to to future generations to
solve.
...
Yeah yeah, that's what they said last time. ;-)
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
d shouldn't be HTML elements, but should be something else instead.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
certain links
> on a page -- to save users the time and trouble of needing to use
> the 5-way on the handset to scroll to the links and activate them.
>...
Since most pages that contain links don't also use accesskey=, handset
vendors should find a way to allow easy navigation of links regardless
of whether the attribute is present.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
nts or JavaScript.
We should probably aim higher than that though...
...
I'm suggesting either replacing with rel="citation" for="id-of-foo">, or dropping cite= altogether.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On Nov 4, 2007, at 5:59 AM, Keryx Web wrote:
Matthew Paul Thomas skrev:
To allow this on the Web, the CSS font-style property would need to
have not just "normal", "italic", and "oblique" values, but also an
"italic-inverse" value. Browsers should
ely more emphasized; this is usually indicated by
increasing the font size.
So a more helpful default would be something like:
em {font-style: italic-inverse;}
em em {font-style: bold;}
em em em {font-size: 1.2em;}
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On Oct 30, 2007, at 4:33 AM, Ian Hickson wrote:
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
...
Authors should use presentational markup whenever there is no
available semantic markup for the relevant meaning, or when they are
providing authoring facilities for people who cannot be
The sentence Henri quoted would require us to choose between
server-side generation of every chart image, incompatibility with w3m,
or non-conformance with any HTML specification. I know w3m isn't
exactly a major browser, but I don't see any good reason for having to
make that cho
to select the first paragraph inside the
article container. I doubt any news site would deliberately make the
lede a paragraph other than the first one ("burying the lede") *and*
want it specially formatted.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
ake, but in any
case, that doesn't affect my suggestion. It would still be useful to
make an entire menu disabled even if the platform UI convention is for
disabled menu titles to look enabled.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
e charter should be updated to refer to HTML 5 rather than
Web Forms 2.0 and Web Applications 1.0.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
actually
one that should be handled by a helper app instead. Mozilla browsers
don't do that any more, and nor does any other browser I know of,
because it made for a horrid user experience.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On May 23, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote:
...
On 5/22/07, Matthew Paul Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On May 22, 2007, at 3:35 AM, Stijn Peeters wrote:
It is becoming increasingly common to have an input field clear its
value when it is first focused. Though in a
if you can't edit it?
Why not make the field empty to begin with?
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
to indicate their presence to
the user and read it on request.
...
Maybe that should be addressed (in Web Forms 3?) with a specific for=...> element.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
July/
thread.html#1366> - where Mr. Raymond's opinion unfortunately sank -
but there is a possibility to overthrow it by making it void on a
legal basis: The Microsoft Windows environment does not provide a
native LABEL control.*
...
That's not true. For example: <http://urlx.org/microsoft.com/7354a>
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
field* when you click its
, on a platform where that doesn't happen in native GUIs (e.g.
Windows, Mac OS, Gnome, or KDE), that's a bug in the browser. Web Forms
2 clarifies this.
<http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#label>
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
cate whether a link
is specified to open in a new window in the first place. So it is fair
for HTML5 to encourage those things, but beyond that, this discussion
may be getting a bit off-topic.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
ng _blank when another solution is practical (e.g.
using a element in the original page), and encourage UAs to
indicate when a link will open in a different top-level browsing
context (e.g. by double-underlining instead of single-underlining).
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
st scanning those pages, again because of poor
browser design.)
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
lication's help links reuse only its own help
window, and don't accidentally obliterate those of other apps or even
other open windows in the same app? Generate a per-page UUID prefix for
all its target= attribute values? :-)
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
target="_blank").
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
s
in multipart/mixed plain-text messages (because there's nowhere to put
it).
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
ars, the
technology for delivering music has change radically, from vinyl, to
cassette, to CD, to purely digital. Why should the Web shy away from a
radical technological change?
...
For the same reasons people shy away from learning Esperanto. Vinyl,
cassettes, and CDs are not languages.
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
I've just encountered a couple of use cases for the style= attribute on
arbitrary elements, rather than just . (Sorry this isn't part of
the relevant thread, as I haven't kept it.)
We have a set of things, stored in a database and listed on a Web page,
where we want to indicate their age by ma
On Jan 21, 2007, at 10:37 PM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
I could have said "in my 24 years of reading in a wide variety of
fields I have never, not once, come across a document that
intentionally used italics to indicate it was quoting someone", but I
On Jan 11, 2007, at 7:01 AM, Sander Tekelenburg wrote:
At 14:42 +1300 UTC, on 2007-01-07, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
On Jan 7, 2007, at 7:13 AM, Sander Tekelenburg wrote:
...
It's still entirely unclear to me *why* the cite attribute needs a
replacement. What is wrong with it?
First,
On Jan 17, 2007, at 12:46 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
...
This is the correct way to do it:
This is correct!, said Ian.
Despite this being consistent with the example given in the HTML 4
specification, it is not compatible with the Web (except
ut opportunity
cost.
...
"Not without" makes that statement look more profound than it is.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On Jan 11, 2007, at 2:17 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote:
On Jan 10, 2007, at 13:26, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
The message "please use and unless you really know what
you're doing, and generate and unless your users really know
what they're doing" is *not* well-known.
that make such a distinction (are there any? I forget), that's a very
small benefit for a very small audience. Fantasai's example of emphasis
in Chinese text is much more interesting.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
, for example when the source information for your quote
is something as vague as "attributed to Mark Twain".
(None of this is new, just a summary of what I understand from the
discussion so far. I'm still thinking about alternative markup.:-)
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
of a work: a book,
film, exhibition, game, etc.
To close on a minor point: en-GB-hixie notwithstanding, it's
"preceded", not "preceeded". :-)
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On Dec 28, 2006, at 1:58 PM, James Graham wrote:
Mike Schinkel wrote:
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
...
Non-heuristic machine consumption fails when semantic elements are
abused, and becomes practical when elements have multiple popular
meanings (examples of the latter include in HTML 4, and
On Dec 26, 2006, at 1:50 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
...
Non-heuristic machine consumption fails when semantic elements are
abused, and becomes practical when elements have multiple popular
meanings (examples of the latter include in HTML 4, and in
HTML 5).
That should have been
s have multiple popular
meanings (examples of the latter include in HTML 4, and in
HTML 5). Heuristic machine consumption fails occasionally by the very
nature of heuristics (examples currently include
<http://www.google.com/search?q=define:author> and
<http://www.google.com/search?q=define:editor>.)
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
cussion is, it's not relevant to the WhatWG
(and I apologize for participating). If you think search engine result
pages would be better if festooned with useless warnings, lobby your
favorite search engine vendor, or go start your own.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
ot think that something was wrong with 90 percent of Web
pages. They would think that something was wrong with the search
engine. And they would be right.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
not in that position eiter.
Personally, I would *love* Google to do this sort of thing. I just
have no hope for it.
...
<http://labs.google.com/accessible/>
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
l as XML' handling.
Add us to your browsers's text/html -> XML list.".
...
That would be even worse.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
:-)
A useful medium-independent description of title= might be
"Supplemental text that is relevant only when concentrating on the
element to which it applies".
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
click. :-)
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
=:
whereas alt= should be presented only if the image itself is *not*
presented, the caption element should be presented only if the image
itself *is* presented. Otherwise there would be the same problem with
non-sequiturs in non-visual media as there is with descriptive alt=.
--
Matthew P
particular, that use width= and height= as a (very slow)
alternative to thumbnails. It may be possible to use the Google Images
corpus to find out just how common this problem is.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
tion authors, and make such pages faster overall.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
e. For example, an unobtrusive sound effect
at each footnote reference, and a command to read the last-encountered
footnote.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
rent style from the "c"? If not, perhaps the
definition of needs to be expanded to include physical constants.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
Video.
I think what would work best for this is the element I've
proposed back in june:
Some caption here
...
...
That would not. (At least, not without some tricky CSS.)
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
arkup.
...
Scholarly books sometimes use both footnotes and endnotes for different
things -- footnotes for citations and endnotes for tangential
discussions, or vice versa. I've never seen an HTML document try to
make this distinction, though.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
ample: XHTML2's attempt to
kill and , resulting in more misuse of and .)
Many people concentrate on one or two of these effects and gloss over
the others, so their idea of the overall utility function is warped.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
ot just because that's what it
means, but because that's how it *should* be expanded if it needs to be
expanded, for example if it is being read aloud. (Expanding it as "id
est" would be pretentiously unreasonable.)
Similarly in "Mac OS X", I don't
give "OS" a title=, because what "OS" stands for is never
relevant in the context.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
extensively than
any Web site could (which will be even more of a benefit when the Web
site is not in your preferred language).
Is the use of the title attribute inappropriate for this case?
...
It has the same lack of context.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
b developer lives in a part of the world doesn't
agree with the 'official' list of countries?
You use a .
...
Or, if you're using Web Forms 2 anyway, a .
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
vived (with minor modifications) to HTML 4, *except for*
and [thor]. <http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/logical.html>
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On Jun 25, 2006, at 11:59 PM, Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
...
But realistically, browsers won't "allow the user to easily override
it if they want to", because any interface for doing that would be
absurd.
...
* Status bar icon/text that indicates if spell
ignore the
attribute, or they'll make it configurable in a really obscure place
(about:config or equivalent), and leave 99.9% of people wondering
vaguely why spellchecking works on some pages and not others.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
cess
keys because they're so non-obvious -- instructions that may be
incorrect for some platforms, depending on how they're worded, and that
are irrelevant for non-interactive UAs like Google.)
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
orehand.
And good results probably would be achieved from ignoring XmlHttp
traffic for progress bar purposes whenever displaying any non-XmlHttp
progress.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
roach would be for the browser to
show the upload progress itself. Complain to your friendly local
browser vendor.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
u can
see that a control is disabled is that its contents are greyed out --
its outline does not change. (This is true of buttons in the Classic
theme in Windows, for example.) So a whose selected item (and
therefore its only visible item) was disabled would look entirely
unusable.
--
elected disabled and unselected disabled
options, browsers would need to start including a checkbox for each
item in a . But then they should have been doing that
all along, both to distinguish between and size>, and to save people from having to know Ctrl+click/Command+click.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On Mar 29, 2006, at 12:02 AM, Ric Hardacre wrote:
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
...
Sure, but they have different meanings. Progress bars are intended to
reach 100% unless cancelled; vote counts are not. In Mac OS, and many
Gnome and KDE themes, will have an animated appearance by
default
are intended to
reach 100% unless cancelled; vote counts are not. In Mac OS, and many
Gnome and KDE themes, will have an animated appearance by
default; will not.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
it has no obvious effect. With
, as with "color", the result will be very obvious and the
correct spelling quickly learned.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
ng.
So the anecdote of the naïve guy above was more dog-whistling?
You either: agree, embrace or disagree with diversity.
...
I suspect that's another false dilemma, but to be honest I'm not even
sure what you're saying. :-)
Cheers
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
t will be more difficult
than using , of course, which is good because it means authors
will be more likely to use instead.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On 24 Jan, 2006, at 5:43 AM, dolphinling wrote:
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
Bizarre but serious conclusion: alt= should be optional for in
documents where a element is present.
How about "Authoring tools MUST only provide alternate text that the
author explicitly requests,
That
re *not* likely to care about
appropriate alt= text, so it is better for the Web if such tools omit
alt= than if they force it to some default value to generate valid
documents and avoid persecution by the Web Standards Project.
Bizarre but serious conclusion: alt= should be optional for in
documents where a element is present.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
g.cgi?id=5764>, but no longer does
because it didn't work for the many cases of and
the like. (I can't find where the latter decision was made, but IIRC
Ian Hickson was the one who made it.)
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On 19 Jan, 2006, at 1:53 AM, Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:
I can think of no reason for
Ah, of course, I had forgotten about . It would
have been more obvious to make alt= compulsory where type="image", and
prohibited otherwise.
(
Why would a form el
, but it shows a large brown creature running
through the forest."> At last, evidence of the
moa!</p>
Do not provide alternate text for an image when it is used for
formatting, decoration, illustration, or linking to a solely graphical
resource. Instead, use alt="". For example
ed in
some examples. If the latter, that will make certain the semantic-free
fates of and .
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
On 14 Jan, 2006, at 1:24 PM, Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Eugene T.S. Wong wrote:
I'd like to recommend that the WHATWG bring back because it
provides an excellent way of saying "this is a centered ".
is no more semantic that , , or , yet they have
their uses.
No, center is presentational, div
o hint that they even exist. A menubutton,
though, could be tabbed to even if it had appeared only because the
element it was inside had been selected or focused.
--
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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